Question about Limited Resources, big ideas.

[Jacob Robinson]

Ok, I think this is my Inaugural Post here on the Creek, so Hi everyone. What I need help with is this: We Got my dad a Reloading Press for christmas, with the promise to build a workbench to mount it to so he would have a place to work. Anyways, my toolkit is limited to a 25$ table saw, which is not worth the 25$ (portable table saws are a joke) A good trimsaw (aka battery circular saw) a good cordless drill, and a few old old royobi tools like a sabersaw (aka jigsaw).
In my eyes, the main woodworking tools i lack are a planer, jointer, and a place to set them up :D
right, thats the first half the problem, but in the world of bad math, the small half. you can do a lot with a circular saw and a square.
My other problem is that the only lumber available to me, is basically construction grade lumber. that is to say, 2x4's 4x4's and the like. Not to be dissuaded, We bought the straightest lumber we could find, and built a bench. once we had it together, the lumber bit us. there is a small amount of twist in everything, and it has added up to make the top of the bench have a hearty twist, which is making the bench rock badly. (back left and front right legs alternate being off the ground, front left and back right stay sitting.)
you can hold the bench down and push the twist out of it, but i cant figure out how to brace it without making the legroom under the front disappear in a tangle of braces.
I'll get pictures up if i can, but what i would like to know, is if anyone has any advice on how to plan out a build when you are going to have to deal with twisted lumber, and if anyone has any ideas for straightening this bench.

Jacob

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Welcome Jacob!

Sizing cases can take a bunch of leverage, which can really put the stress to a reloading bench. Most of the smaller benches that I have been around have some sort of balast to add mass to the bench, either bags of shot, or sand. Can you do this to get the beast level again? Another approach may be to anchor it to the wall and/or floor?

Your dad will appreciate the added ridgidity of the bench, especially if he has a powder trickler sitting on it.

As for lumber, construction grade lumber is not dried like cabinet grade lumber is, I don't think. If you need to use construction grade, buy some well in advance, months ahead, and let it sit and acclimate. I have a small pile of hand picked, vertical grain 2x's in on my rack all the time, just for this reason.

This is no guarentee though. If the board was dried too fast, it may be straight enough for a stud, but when you rip it, it will warp like crazy. To combat this, try dimensioning too large, then letting the rough dimensioned parts sit for a while. Theoretically, they should quit moving on you with this approach, but there are times when you will just run into a junk board.

The best approach, is to buy good lumber. A cheaper way to get good lumber is to salvage. If you have access to "junk" buildings, they can be a treasure trove. The cost is usually nothing, if you don't mind a little work. Good luck! Better tools will help too, but ultimately its the brain running the tools, not the tools that create something wonderful.

[Larry Edgerton]

Jacob.

I agree with everything Steve said and will add......

If you want to use framing lumber specify Hemlock. It is a bit of a premium on price but will be stable. Spruce sucks!

Consider a glue lam for a top. They make awesome benches and are available in 24" and deeper sizes, and commonly in 3 1/2" inch 5 1/4 inch widths, or thickness in your case as you will be laying them down. They are stable, heavy, and relitively inexpensive. If you call around to different yards they may have some short end cuts that they want to get rid of cheap. With a glue lam you will only need to add legs, the top will be self supporting and will not twist.

My dad was a gunsmith, you definitely need a stable bench. Don't want to get the powder wrong or BOOM! :)

Have a design in mind before you start, be clear in your mind. Think of all the stresses that are going to affect it, and compensate. For example you may have a reloader that makes you pull towards you. Are you fastening it to a wall? will it have a backsplash? You see, think it all out in your mind, sit yourself at the imaginary bench and do all the things that you would be doing in your mind.

I always do and I have been at this a couple of years.;)

[Joe Chritz]

My loading bench is made from 1 12" angle iron and a double layer of plywood top.

With what you have you should look at using the Plams suggested. They are remarkably easy to deal with and not really that expensive.

You could "easily" make a tressle base with mortise and tenons and have a real stable base using just hand tools. I can't very well but lots of people do that kind of work all the time.

What press did you get him?

Joe

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'll second Joe and Larry on the gluelams. Actually my workbench/assembly table/reloading bench is a couple of them put together. HEAVY.

[Scott Conners]

I just built budget workbenches for two of my friends - in Southern CA I can get 2x3 kiln dried 8' pine at home depot for under $2/ea. If I dig through a pile, I can usually find at least a couple of dozen really straight, relatively clear sticks. These make a great starting point and the price is really right. Both friends wanted plywood tops, so that was simple, but starting with wet studs is asking for a bad twist. I've watched freshly built walls twist inches out of square when the sun came over the neighboring building and began to dry the wood.

I nth the suggestion for gluelams and parallams, I recently needed some nice stable 4x4 stock for turning a chuppah and poster bed inexpensively, and used parallam. It worked very well, though I wouldn't use of for the working top, as I prefer a smoother surface. Gluelams would probably work better for a surface.

[Jacob Robinson]

What press did you get him?

Joe

Got a Lee Deluxe reloading Kit with several dies.


Thank you all for your input, I think the answer will be to create a plywood top for it, or buy/make a lam of some kind. what it is now is 3 2x8's which would be fine in most cases, but the lumber at our local lumber yard lacks much to be desired, an despite trying to get the staightest stuff, the 2x8's all have a minor twist to them, and its acting in a cumulative way.
I'm trying to ballast it straight for now, but if that fails, i'll come up with some other solution. If i poke around enough, i might be able to get a big chunk of the inch and a quarter sub-floor plywood, which would be about ideal.

And, as my re-inaugural post, i'll give some background as to my experience:
I've been working in construction for almost 3 years now, on a foundation to finish-work basis. (my last boss had a good portable planer and table saw, and a great sliding compound miter saw, and i was working with a wise ole' german who knows all the tricks, so we build all the cabinetry for the houses we worked on with those few tools) I grew up around tools, and my godfather has a great shop that we would use to build christmas gifts. I Have a degree in industrial technology, which is long for shop class. I know how to use good woodworking tools, but space and finances prevent me having them for myself so far.
anyways, thanks again for all your input, and i hope to have more and better projects to post here!

[Darrin Vanden Bosch]

Unfortunately it is usually not cheaper to try to build something on the cheap. As they say " there is never enough time to do it right the first time but always enough time to do it again." The same thing applies, not enough money to do it right the first time but...
Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.

Darrin

[John Schreiber]

Lots of good ideas above. Specifically for the bench you are working on, I'd suggest shimming the bottom to get rid of the wobbble. After you have the height of the shim right, coat it with glue and stick it back under. No more wobble. A solid sheet of plywood or MDF with shims underneath as needed will add mass and give you a flat surface for the top.

For the next project using construction grade lumber, buy the widest wood you can. The best wood is used for the 2x12s and the worst for the 2x4s. Depending on where you are, Southern Yellow Pine is often the best choice if you can't get or afford hardwood.

Regarding starting out on the cheap. DO IT. Sometiemes it will seem like you can't do good work without spending big money. But remember the wonderful things which have been made in the past with tools far more primitive than your $25 table saw. I've chosen to go with hand tools and mostly unpowered hand tools. It's slower, but I can buy quality which will last foreverf for a reasonable price.

You also mention that you've worked with some excellent craftsmen. Soak up every bit you can from them and let them know how valuable their experience is to you. I wish I had examples to learn from rather than figguring things out and a lot of trial and error and more error.

[Paul Demetropoulos]

I'm with John on this. You've gotten plenty of good ideas for the top, his idea of plywood or mdf to add mass is a good simple one. Two or even three layers of either adds a lot of weight and a renewable hardboard top piece is an easy surface to clean and replace when needed. I use brass screws to hold down a piece of Masonite on some shop tables to protect saw blades.

As far as using dimensional lumber for frames and bases, I think it's a good inexpensive choice, and there are ways to combat it's inherent instabilty.
Air drying the lumber for a least 3 or 4 weeks, depends on how dry the air in your shop is, is a start. Since the wood gains and loses most moisture through it's ends, the fastest way for it to dry is if you cut it to rough length and sticker the pile. For instance, an 8 foot 2x4 will stabilze to your shop's environment much faster if cut into two 4 foot pieces.

To build a simple bench, start with the legs made from 2x4s. Let's say you want them 32", you might have cut them to a rough length of 36" to dry. To make one leg use two pieces cut to final length of 32'. Straighten the edge of one with your circular saw and a straight edge guide (I use an EZ Smart Guide for this, works great, especially for someone like you with limited tools). Now glue and screw them in a L shape, the straightened edge of one to the face of the other. Using this technique, the straight edge of one 2x4 stops the other from bowing.

Now simply make two identical butt joined rectangular frames, one for the top and one for the lower shelf, and attach the legs to them. You can put the legs either on the inside or outside of the frames, putting them on the inside makes adding a lower shelf easier.

The L shaped leg has the added benefit of acting as a corner brace for the assembly.

[Darren Salyer]

When my Father in law wanted a bench, I bolted a 2" x 2" x6' piece of angle iron to the wall horizontally at the right height for him. Used a solid core door slab with oak veneer that was left fom another job, although any solid door slab would work, and be very stable, for the top. For the front legs, we used 4x4s with a couple stretchers, all pocket screwed together, and to the top. As he reloads mostly shotgun shells, the best addition was a 3/4" wide x 1/4" deep slot routed about an inch inside the edge on all 4 sides. Keeps that pesky shot off the floor.
Darren

[Steve Rozmiarek]

As he reloads mostly shotgun shells, the best addition was a 3/4" wide x 1/4" deep slot routed about an inch inside the edge on all 4 sides. Keeps that pesky shot off the floor.
Darren


Thats pretty clever!