Need ideas for a new vise. Workbench pics attached.

[Mark McGee]

I built this bench 25 years ago. It became a little twisted over the years. This year I flattened the top using a router sled. Now it is dead flat and a pleasure to use.

The leg vises work alright, but are a little inconvenient because of having to reposition the pin. I would like to replace the front vise with a bolt on vise and keep the tail vise.

Any recommendations for a vise? The bench top is about 3 inches thick.

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[Dewey Torres]

You are going to get plenty more responses than your mind can handle on this but I have the Veritas twin screw and I swear by it!

[Al Navas]

I built this bench 25 years ago. It became a little twisted over the years. This year I flattened the top using a router sled. Now it is dead flat and a pleasure to use.

The leg vises work alright, but are a little inconvenient because of having to reposition the pin. I would like to replace the front vise with a bolt on vise and keep the tail vise.

Any recommendations for a vise? The bench top is about 3 inches thick.


Mark,

I would think twice about replacing the leg vise. Chris Schwarz believes this is *the* best vise there is, bar none. But there might be design issues.

He mentioned the issue of having to reset the pins, and how that could be a minus. You might write him a note, and also contact Jameel Abraham at Benchcrafted. His Roubo bench is fantastic; he has designed a wheel that the leg vise rides on, and should help with the pin issue.


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[Alan DuBoff]

I would think twice about replacing the leg vise. Chris Schwarz believes this is *the* best vise there is, bar none. But there might be design issues..
That doesn't mean that what works for Chris will work for Mark. There are a lot of woodworkers in this world, and Chris is one of the more popular in regards to workbench design, but let us not forget that you really don't need a fancy or well built bench to turn out beautiful work. As an example, Sam Maloof uses an Emmert Pattern Maker's vise, and Chris Schwarz doesn't recommend them very highly. Do you think you would get Sam to change his vise to a leg vise? ;) Sam's bench is fairly wide, Chris recommends a narrow bench...

I'm not trying to disparage Chris Schwarz's comments, but you tossed out a pretty vague comment for Mark to go by with Chris's name. In some ways a simple comment like that could confuse someone. Mark stated he wants to replace one of the leg vises, there must be a reason for that, wouldn't you think? He will still have one after it is said and done. The type of work one does on the bench will determine what will work best. Chris makes that pretty clear in his book.

As Mark notes, the pin is a PITA in the leg vise. There is no panacea with vises, similar to workbenches. In general I don't think there is any one rule, or any specific way that works for all woodworkers, but it's good to use folks like Chris Schwarz, Lon Schleining, and Scott Landis as guides. They all have excellent books on building workbenches, and many folks have used them with success.

There's a lot of different ways to skin this cat, and I suspect the reason we see so many different benches and vises is because people have different taste and needs. :)

[Matt Edwards]

For what its worth, if I were replacing my front vice it would be with an Emmert Patternmaker's vice or a clone there of. Right now I have two vintage Columbia vices that I like real well and have no plan on changing, but I do find myself contorting a little when shaping work being held by the front vice. Of course, its not real hard to over come with a couple of clamps and a little imagination, but can be cumbersome and time consuming. The Emmert style just look as though they would be REAL handy for doing a lot holding tasks required for hand shaping or carving a work piece.

Just my 2c.
Matt

Let us know what you decide and how you install it!

[Al Navas]

... I'm not trying to disparage Chris Schwarz's comments, but you tossed out a pretty vague comment for Mark to go by with Chris's name. In some ways a simple comment like that could confuse someone...
Alan,

I have a feeling Mark knows exactly what I talk about, and won't be confused...





... As Mark notes, the pin is a PITA in the leg vise. There is no panacea with vises, similar to workbenches. In general I don't think there is any one rule, or any specific way that works for all woodworkers, but it's good to use folks like Chris Schwarz, Lon Schleining, and Scott Landis as guides. They all have excellent books on building workbenches, and many folks have used them with success...

As I also mentioned, the pin issue has already been resolved by Jameel, and his solution is terrific. I believe it will be worth Mark's time to check out this solution.




.

[Mark McGee]

The leg vise does have one advantage and that is the screw being about 15 inches down from the top. This allows a wide board to pass through the vise. With a steel vise a wide board can only be partially gripped in the vise.

I use this front vise for holding boards for edge planing. This may include pieces up to six feet long.

[Victor Stearns]

You can always check out Christopher Schwarz's book on work benches at a local library. It really is a great book. I personally like the look of your current bench.
I do have the Vertias Twin Screw vise mounted to the end of my bench and am very happy with it and would recommend that you at least take a look to see if it may work for you.
Good Luck
Victor

[Phillip Pattee]

That is a nice looking and sturdy bench. If the pin in the leg vise is your biggest issue, you might consider just modifying the leg vise to a St. Peter's Cross. Jameel Abraham mentioned wanting to do this with his traveling leg vise. With the St. Peter’s Cross there would be no more stooping and kneeling to change the pin (and none of our joints is getting any younger), the cross maintains the parallelism.

This might be a simpler solution that putting a bolt on vise. If you do go the bolt on route, it looks like you will have to move the vise location because your beg leg would interfere.

[Wayne Morley]

I agree that you may want to keep your leg vise, not because I think it is the best solution, but because your bench was designed from the beginning with it in mind. (BTW nice bench) A new bolt on vise will interfere with the dog holes and will need to be placed inside of the leg.

The St. Peter's Cross is a good solution as is the one Jameel Abraham has. Here is another simpler solution that will avoid the hassle of moving the pin. The included sketch should tell it all.

[Alan DuBoff]

For what its worth, if I were replacing my front vice it would be with an Emmert Patternmaker's vice or a clone there of.
Matt,

Having a Emmert clone, I would only add one comment...that putting it in the face position can often lead to more fiddling that one likes, to get the jaws flush with the front of the bench. Hard to get that piece perfect, even after carving out the bench to allow the rear jaw to be inset.

Since I put my Emmert clone in the end position, I didn't inset the rear jaw, I don't use it to secure boards to the front of the bench. I love having my Emmert clone in the end position, it allows me to do that type of work I want with it, more comfortably. This is not something that is recommended by folks, even though Maloof has his Emmert in a similar position, he works different type of pieces than I do (although I would love to make a chair in his style! ;) ).

As I also mentioned, the pin issue has already been resolved by Jameel, and his solution is terrific.
I'm not sure I follow you. Are you suggesting that adding a handle to an extended pin is resolving the pin issue?

How does that help you from bending down to manually adjust it? :confused:

The sketch that Wayne posted looks like a better solution to me, and seems closer to resolution...my $0.02.

[Al Navas]

... I'm not sure I follow you. Are you suggesting that adding a handle to an extended pin is resolving the pin issue?

How does that help you from bending down to manually adjust it? :confused:

The sketch that Wayne posted looks like a better solution to me, and seems closer to resolution...my $0.02.

Alan,

Take a few minutes, and read Jameel Abraham's blog (http://oudluthier.blogspot.com/2008/06/bench-3-leg-vise-breakthrough.html) on how he engineered a solution to the pin issue - and please make sure to watch the short video that Jameel created for our enjoyment... I believe that Mark is just about there, and needs but a little work to have the best leg vise in town, with all the advantages of such a vise.

Also, in case you don't follow The Schwarz's blog, you might want to visit his blog and look at some of the latest on the Roubo-type benches (http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/SearchView.aspx?q=roubo). Of special interest is the develo0pment of Jameel's bench, documented beautifully in Schwarz's blog entry (http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/The+Deluxe+Roubo.aspx).


Al

[Wayne Morley]

Matt,

I'm not sure I follow you. Are you suggesting that adding a handle to an extended pin is resolving the pin issue?

How does that help you from bending down to manually adjust it? :confused:

The sketch that Wayne posted looks like a better solution to me, and seems closer to resolution...my $0.02.

I believe the solution that Jameel Abraham has is something like this sketch. The two wheels keep the lower bar perpendicular to the leg as the jaw moves back and forth, thus the jaw remains parallel to the leg. The problem I see with this solution is the magnitude of the forces involved.

[Al Navas]

...The problem I see with this solution is the magnitude of the forces involved.

Wayne,

I am not sure why you state this. Is it because the pin bar might not be stout enough? With two wheels, the forces should balance out across the the thickness of the legs, which is around 4 inches. The entire load is transferred to the bearings on the wheels. If the plastic on the wheels stands a 250-lb man skating for all it's worth, I have a feeling they will also hold the chop on the leg vise...;)


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[Alan DuBoff]

Alan,

Take a few minutes, and read Jameel Abraham's blog (http://oudluthier.blogspot.com/2008/06/bench-3-leg-vise-breakthrough.html) on how he engineered a solution to the pin issue - and please make sure to watch the short video that Jameel created for our enjoyment... I believe that Mark is just about there, and needs but a little work to have the best leg vise in town, with all the advantages of such a vise.
I have seen Jameel's videos and know how it works.

How about reading what Mark wrote in the first place?

The leg vises work alright, but are a little inconvenient because of having to reposition the pin.
Now, how does Jameel's solution solve the problem of having to reposition the pin?

[Al Navas]

I have seen Jameel's videos and know how it works.

How about reading what Mark wrote in the first place?

Now, how does Jameel's solution solve the problem of having to reposition the pin?

Alan,

I did read what Mark wrote. But, please don't get in a hurry, and read the entire sequence in Jameel's posts, especially the part about the breakthrough system with the wheels. NO pins involved... ;)

You might want to watch the video. There ain't no pins at all, only the board! The (old) pin board rides parallel to the ground, and moves in and out with the vise chop. Note that the "pin board" no longer has holes in it, as they are not required.


Al

[Alan DuBoff]

You might want to watch the video. There ain't no pins at all, only the board! The (old) pin board rides parallel to the ground, and moves in and out with the vise chop. Note that the "pin board" no longer has holes in it, as they are not required.
Al,

I guess I'll need to watch the video again when I have Windows/Mac boot, wmv is not UNIX friendly.

However, you did see this entry where Jameel modified his leg vise with the pins, right (http://oudluthier.blogspot.com/2008/10/getting-know-roubo-leg-vise-tweak.html)?

Let's take a real world situation. You have a panel frame that your working on, and need to plane some stiles and rails. These stiles and rails are 2" wide, and you need to secure them so you can plane the edge.

You secure about 1" into the top of the vise. The leg screw is about 8" deep, so you now have the forces which Wayne mentions as well, when you tighten the leg vise. The chop is sturdy, and can actually apply enough force to the screw to deform it over time. You need the pin to prevent that, AFAICT. How would you prevent the vise from racking with that setup?

Your mention of Chris Schwarz earlier in the thread, that is the same woodworker/journalist that has modified his bench several times already, right? Like most woodworkers, the quest for what works for each of us will not end. Some folks are searching for the best solution that fits them, and in that regard Chris doesn't seem too different. OTOH, he hasn't modified his Hotzappfel since he built it and took it home, at least that he has mentioned.

Workbenches are all a matter of preference, IMO. Some of the greatest woodworkers use benches which would not rate well per Chris's comments. Does this mean they're wrong? I say absolutely not.

Is Mark wrong for wanting to swap out one of his leg vises? That is what you suggested, and use Chris's comments as the reason he shouldn't.

Sometimes it's good to get into the shop and work some wood, which is exactly what I'm going to do now. ;)

[Jameel Abraham]

I think I can clear up some of this.

First off, Al has it mostly right. The wheels on my leg vise are there to support the weight of the chop, and provide smooth, effortless (there is no weight on the screw at all) in-out movement. That's it. They don't act as a fulcrum for the actual function of the vise. The parallel guide does have holes in it, and I do use a pin as a fulcrum in the parallel guide.

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The main difference between my leg vise and typical leg vises, and I took this directly from Roubo, is that the parallel guide on my vise is a ways off the ground, unlike the original Woodworking Magazine Roubo article leg vise that Chris S. designed that utilizes the ease of construction of an open-ended mortise at the bottom of the leg. Roubo's design makes for less stooping.

But as Chris writes, and I share this experience, you're not changing the position a whole lot if you're working with typical cabinet and furniture parts, since one hole works for about 80% of the thicknesses woodworkers usually encounter.

As for improving the leg vise parallel guide with a St. Peter's Cross or other mechanism, I'll just say that I do have another vise in the works that will hopefully address some of these issues.

[Wayne Morley]

I think I can clear up some of this.

First off, Al has it mostly right. The wheels on my leg vise are there to support the weight of the chop, and provide smooth, effortless (there is no weight on the screw at all) in-out movement. That's it. They don't act as a fulcrum for the actual function of the vise. The parallel guide does have holes in it, and I do use a pin as a fulcrum in the parallel guide.

104832

....


First I want to apologize to Mark for hijacking his thread. :o

I was also under the same mistaken impression as Alan i.e. that there was no pin involved in the operation of Jameel’s vise. I believe that it would work without it but the wheels would have to develop torque in the neighborhood of 8,000 to 10,000 inch pounds on the lower arm in order to offset the forces generated by the screw.

I still believe that the solution I proposed in my first sketch is the best, given the configuration of marks bench. Hope it helps.

Wayne

[Alan DuBoff]

The parallel guide does have holes in it, and I do use a pin as a fulcrum in the parallel guide.
Right, that is the piece that Al insisted I go back and watch on your video, that you didn't use a pin in the holes, and that it wasn't required.

I was also under the same mistaken impression as Alan i.e. that there was no pin involved in the operation of Jameel’s vise.
I wasn't under that impression, rather that is what Al was trying to tell us, so not surprising you were under the impression. I can only see the vise working without a pin, if the stock is down close to the screw, since it wouldn't be able to get any leverage on the bottom that way. The smaller the stock is in the top of the vise, the more force will be applied bottom as it is tightened.

I still believe that the solution I proposed in my first sketch is the best, given the configuration of marks bench.
The only thing I think would add value is to have a metal plate which attaches to sides of the bottom slide (or whatever it is called), so that the metal outlined the tooth pattern to prevent wear on the wood...That would ensure it would last over time. Otherwise it might be possible to shear a wooden tooth off.

Now if you go back up and look at Mark's bench at the beginning of this thread, the vise screw is lower than Jameel's, so the force will be greater and warrant a pin even more. My $0.02, which is worth about $0.02 less...

Ah...the sweet smell of maple in the air...as I type...at least I'm making some progress on my project...

[Alan DuBoff]

Any recommendations for a vise? The bench top is about 3 inches thick.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=104744&d=1230256683

Mark,

To bring this back around with the thread, I do have a suggestion for you. You might not like it, but it's worth considering.

I like your bench foundation, it's not a bad workbench. You have a leg vise on the front now, how about adding a 2nd sliding leg vise on the front, similar to how Jameel has his bench? Not a lot of additional hardware, another screw, and you could add a section to the front of the shelf to allow the vise to ride on and function as the deadman.

It would give you a lot of options, having a sliding leg vise that functions as a large twin-screw, it looks like an amazing setup.

I have a twin-screw on the face of my bench, and I like the setup a lot, but 2 leg vises with one sliding is a better setup.

At first I was thinking move your end vise over to be the sliding leg vise on the front and adopt a QR vise on the end, but looking at that huge leg, and the dog holes along the front, what is there works and appears to function well...why change a good 'thang??? Some might think that 3 leg vises is odd, yeah it is, but having the slider on the front would give you tons of options. Minimal additional hardware.

Something to consider anyway.

[Greg Cole]

That doesn't mean that what works for Chris will work for Mark.
There's a lot of different ways to skin this cat, and I suspect the reason we see so many different benches and vises is because people have different taste and needs. :)
Thats the best darned bench advice I've heard yet.

[James White]

Sorry if this is a little off topic. However I am in the process of deciding on vises myself. I was leaning toward the leg vise. Since I already have four of the generic vise screws that were on sale a Woodcraft not too long ago. My reservation is. It would seem that the leg vise would skew if clamping material on only one side. Therefore require a spacer be placed in the opposite side of the vise. This makes me think a twin screw may be better. Am I missing something in regard to the leg vise being susceptible to skewing?

James

[Alan DuBoff]

Greg,

Chris does indeed have great advice, just that at some point we all need to decide for ourselves what works for our needs. Chris was skeptical about my use of the Emmert, and that worked out excellent for me so far. I'm not sure what his take was on my adapting a hand wheel to it, that is also a bit unusual...again, it seems to work well for me. Mark's use of the leg vise on the end looks functional to me, yet I know folks would think that was odd to place one on the end. In that regard, I find the leg vise on the end to appear more functional than a wagon vise using the same screw. I would opt for the leg vise on the end as Mark has, it just seems like a more versatile solution. But, that would be my preference.;)

Sorry if this is a little off topic. However I am in the process of deciding on vises myself. I was leaning toward the leg vise. Since I already have four of the generic vise screws that were on sale a Woodcraft not too long ago. My reservation is. It would seem that the leg vise would skew if clamping material on only one side. Therefore require a spacer be placed in the opposite side of the vise. This makes me think a twin screw may be better. Am I missing something in regard to the leg vise being susceptible to skewing?
James,

The leg vises typically have a narrower jaw, so the screw doesn't seem to rack, not like having a large Quick Release with a decent sized chop on it. I do have limited experience with a leg vise, only one or two friends have them. One has an old antique bench with one that works well.

Speaking for my own QR (see attached image), mine racks like crazy and is impossible to use without a spacer. Anything tall that requires placement to the side of the screw/guide-bars will rack it when tightening the vise. It's a 10" vise with a 15" chop/jaw. I think a wood chop accentuates the problem even more.

Some vises are preference, I see folks building shoulder vises and doing great work, QR vises on the front, Emmerts on the front (or a Tucker if your fortunate enough), leg vises, twin-screws (wood and metal), etc...it all makes the world go 'round...even Mark's bench with a leg vise on the end, that is an interesting placement, but I bet it works well.

[Dave Anderson NH]

To further reinforce the idea of making choices based on your style of work, I offer the following observation. My brand new bench built a couple of months ago does not have any type of end vise, tail vise, or wagon vise. With my variey of bench appliances like bench dogs, planing stops,etc, I felt that I don't need one and thus omitted it.

The fly in the ointment in making the choice comes when you are relatively inexperienced and don't know what you might need or use. This predicament is a good argument for building an inexpensive "temporary" bench, experimenting for a while with it, modifying it, and building a "permanent" bench later.

[Alan DuBoff]

To further reinforce the idea of making choices based on your style of work, I offer the following observation. My brand new bench built a couple of months ago does not have any type of end vise, tail vise, or wagon vise. With my variey of bench appliances like bench dogs, planing stops,etc, I felt that I don't need one and thus omitted it.
Dave,

This absolutely makes sense for the way you work, no reason to add one, which you didn't. We all work differently at times, and often need something to get a specific task done.

I almost fell off my bench stool when I saw the contraption Al built (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=100020) on his bench to hold a tailed apprentice. This really shows that we all do work differently, and I'm not one to advocate how people work. Although I must say I typically like to work wood with my feet on the ground, one reason I probably never became a roofer...;)

The fly in the ointment in making the choice comes when you are relatively inexperienced and don't know what you might need or use. This predicament is a good argument for building an inexpensive "temporary" bench, experimenting for a while with it, modifying it, and building a "permanent" bench later.
I agree with that notion, but the other side of the coin says that if you the experience you gain in building one will add to your skill set and you will be a better woodworker for it.

Inexperience should not be a show stopper to work wood, each project is a stepping stone in itself.

I'm sure that my bench is unorthodox to many, but it works for me.:)

You seem satisfied that the choice you made on your bench was the right one Dave, and that is what matters most. Beautiful bench, and I'm sure it will serve you for a long, long time...Actually, Mark's bench will most likely suite him for a long, long time once he gets it modified...(once he decides), and if not, there's always another chance for another modification, whatever he decides that will be. It is a good thing we get more than one chance at this bench 'thang, many people need it. As a case in point, Chris Schwarz...how many times has he modified his bench(es) ? *gd&r*

[Martin Heilman]

I am a casual woodworker and am thinking of making a dedicated bench, probally as much as for the sake of making the bench as much as using it. I have the Scott Landis book on workbenches and notice many benches have the double row of dog holes along the top. However, Scott mentiones that when using only one side on a center screw vise, it eventually becomes racked. Therefore my question: Why not put two single vises on the end, the same as located on the front, then you would have the option of using one or both, as the situation demands? I may be missing something but appreciate any comments - Thanks

[Jameel Abraham]

I've found the second row of dog holes to be 99% useless. I've had a bench with the second row for close to a decade, and I think I used that second row once. Dogs at the front of the bench are all that's necessary, and I wouldn't bother with the labor and time of doing two rows. You might want to look at Chris Schwarz's book on workbenches too. Plus his article on the Holtzapfel bench. Using a twin screw vise, or a wide face vise in the tail vise position doesn't work all that well.

[harry strasil]

Mark, FWIW, there is an alternative to moving the pin, bad backs and stooping over to change the pin can be painful.

Alternative is to cut tapered notches in the top of the board with the holes in it for the pin, somewhat like rip saw teeth, and have corresponding lever with the mating notch in it and a pin or nail or something for it to pivot on off to one side, then drill a hole in the other outer end and run a small cord or rope thru the hole and tie an overhand knot in it to keep it from pulling thru. The top end of the cord is fastened somewhere close to the top of the leg vise with some slack in it. to adjust the bottom (used to move the pin). just pull up a bit on the cord to disengage the notch and then let go when you have it where you want it. Saw Notches and a thin piece of flat iron to drop into the notch will work also.

Jr.

[Mark McGee]

Here's a picture of the end vise in use.
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And here's something I did to make it easier to position the leg vise pin. I have marks that help locate my commonly used positions without having to get down on the floor to line up the pin holes.
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[David Keller NC]

Mark - Nothing against Chris Schwarz' penchant for re-engineering his bench (he does do that for a living, after all), but my thought is that it's a mistake to re-engineer a bench (or a piece of furniture, for that matter).

There are plenty of examples of re-purposed benches and furniture out there, but in my opinion, it's just simpler to build another bench. So long as you use an inexpensive lumber, there isn't much expense involved over what an additional vise costs (and you'd be buying that vise regardless of whether it's retrofitted to your existing bench or placed on a new one).

There are a couple of other reasons to make another bench - few, if any of us, look on a bench we built a few years back and think "I wouldn't change a thing", and there are very good arguments to having at least 2 benches. One of those arguments has to do with the operations to be done at a bench - optimal hand-planing height is a good bit lower than optimal joint-making height (at least with hand tools). That's one of the reasons Roy Underhill has 2 different benches in The Woodwright's Shop - one's designed for planing, one's designed for carving and joinery.

However, if you decide not to go this route, I'm going to suggest a solution that will result in the least modifications to your existing bench - visit your local Woodcraft store, and pick up a Jorgensen quick-acting steel bench vise. Other than mortising the back jaw into the apron of your bench so that it's flush, and drilling a new row of dog holes, all you have to do to get the vise up and running is to bolt it on. They're a good deal cheaper than the Veritas (which I have, by the way - it's a great vise, but can be a complex installation), they're made in the US, and the machining is first-rate. You can go with a cheaper Anant, but in my opinion that's a mistake - the Anants that I considered before buying the Jorgensen were rough, sloppy, and used an inferior lever quick release mechanism. The Jorgensens use an interrupted-screw design for the quick release, which, from a mechanical engineering point of view, are a considerably better design. For $50 extra, that was a worthwhile investment, IMO.

[Hank Knight]

Mark,

I have a Record face vise and a Veritas twin screw vise for an end vise. I have been happy with the set up. But if I were to do it again, I would use a different arrangement. I would move my twin screw to the face vise position and use a "traditional" end vise. Actually, I would spring for Jameel's wagon vise as my end vise. It's a beauty.

But your question is about the face vise. I think the twin screw in the face vise position gives you a big advantage you don't get in a quick release face vise. You can do all the regular clamping with it as you would with a quick release vise, plus you can clamp between the screws where you have an unobstructed path for your workpiece all the way to the floor; and, because of the chain and sprocket design, the Veritas doesn't rack. The only disadvantage I see is the absence of the quick release feature. Cranking the vise handles can something of an annoyance, but nothing I can't live with. It's not often you have to open the vise wide for a really thick workpiece, and most of the time you're moving it only a couple of inches at most; so there's not a lot of cranking involved in day-to-day use as a face vise.

My $.02.

Hank

[Peter Tremblay]

Mark, I have not read, only skimmed, this thread, but I might add a my vise design to be considered.

I built a Veritas Twin screw to be essentially a moving shoulder vise. The screws are offset to the left so that there is a very large jaw opening on the right for various clamping jobs and because of the twin screw the jaw does not skew. I made a few modifications because the left screw now has forces acting on it differently than the way that it was designed but that was an easy modification. It works great and I love how it combines the best of a shoulder vise and a normal face vise, in my opinion.

The screws are 10" apart (on center) and the jaw on the right is a full 12" long. The total vise jaw is 24" long.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/Petercft/woodworking/23.jpg?t=1231045196
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/Petercft/woodworking/2-14.jpg?t=1231045216

[Tony Augruso]

As for improving the leg vise parallel guide with a St. Peter's Cross or other mechanism, I'll just say that I do have another vise in the works that will hopefully address some of these issues.

Can you elaborate on this a bit (what kind of improvement, timeframe, ...)? I'm in the process of designing my workbench and have ordered your tail vise. I'm trying to decide now whether or not to add a leg vise or go with a twin screw.

Thanks,
Tony

[Jameel Abraham]

Tony,

I don't have a time frame, although I am working on prototypes right now. I won't offer it for sale unless it performs excellently, like the tail vise, so I can't really estimate when I'll have something. Hopefully by summertime. Being able to retrofit the X-guide is a top priority though, so if you go with a leg vise on your bench, chances are you'd be able to fit my device later. And a twin-screw is really easy to swap out for a leg vise if you decide to change your mind.