Best way to get started doing INLAYS

[Eric Brown]

I have recently become interested in doing inlays, but have no experience. Lie-Nielsen has what looks to be a nice set (the +$500 doesn't bother me).

Are there any better tools or recommended reading materials?

Thanks - Eric

[Ted Shrader]

Eric -

Get David Marks' DVD on inlays. Very informative. Recently took a class from him that involved some inlay and double bevel inlay techniques. Not entirely neanderthal, but a good bit is. The techniques are the well demonstrated.

Regards,
Ted

[Tony Joyce]

Anything by Steve Latta will be well worth the money. Must have book - "The Marquetry Course" by Jack Metcalfe & John Apps. This book is very complete, but easy to understand.

Tony Joyce

[Larry Fox]

There are some articles on FWW that are very good (one by Steve Latta). For straight inlays I mostly use a shop-made scratch stock. Set the depth and protrusion in some scrap and you are good to do. For a table I did recently that had a wider inlay I bought one of the things below and it performs very well.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Dremel_rotary_tools,_attachments/2/Precision_Router_Base.html

Don't bother with the air pump thingey - it is pretty much a throw-away imho.

[Barry Vabeach]

+1 for Steve Latta. IMHO the LN set is pretty pricey for what you get. Barry

[Tony Joyce]

If you go with the StewMac base for the Dremel, these are the bits Steve Latta recommends.

http://www.drilltechnology.com/sapfm.html

Tony Joyce

[Pam Niedermayer]

Latta is a very good teacher on video (probably in person, even better, but I haven't taken any classes from him); so I'd study his dvd called "Fundamental Inlaying...," also from LN.

Pam

[Mike Henderson]

I bought a set of small router bits to fit a Dremel but I don't remember where I bought them - they were about $10-$15 for the set. They're the ones with the plastic ring on them that gives the size.

I think you can find them on eBay every now and again - just be sure you're getting router bits and not drill bits. You should be able to buy a set of assorted sizes for around $15 or so. I think I got about seven bits in the set I bought. They work well for me.

Also, Dremel makes a low cost nose for their motor that will work to do inlay freehand. The Stu-Mac base is a good quality base, though.

Mike

[Eric Brown]

I will get the books I can and study them first before making additional tool purchases (for inlay).

I was hoping for more info on doing inlay without power tools, but all information is helpful.

Thanks - Eric

[Tony Joyce]

I almost forgot, here is a excellent online video on string inlaying. Mostly handtools!

http://woodtreks.com/making-and-applying-decorative-string-inlay/477/

Tony Joyce

[Ian Coop]

Steve Latta was a guest on two of the episodes of the Woodwrights Shop with Roy Underhill. One episode was on line and berry type inlays and the second was on federal style bandings. I emailed the show and Roy kindly sent out the DVD. The price was around $17.00 - quite a deal.

Ian

[Eric Brown]

The video was really nicely done. I have a book on order and will read it and watch the videos again (a bunch!).

Thanks again - Eric

[Dewey Torres]

Hey Eric,
I caught this one late due to the holidays but you seem to be on your way for what you asked about. There is a lot out there (info wise) and a big difference between hand and machine work. Also, there is a big difference between inlay and marquetry (if you already knew this please ingnore).

If you have questions please know that I use inlay or marquetry in every piece of mine so I have exp if nothing else. There are also many other Creekers here with considerable talent such as Mike Henderson who replied here.:)

[Mike Henderson]

There are also many other Creekers here with considerable talent such as Mike Henderson who replied here.:)
But not even close to your expertise, Dewey!

Mike

[Steve Mellott]

Basic question: Why would you use a Dremel with a Stewmac attachment instead of a small router (such as a Colt)? I think the cost would be about the same but the router would give you more flexibility. I'm also interested in doing some inlay work and want to better understand all my options. Thanks.

Steve

[Tony Joyce]

The Dremel is smaller easier to control for doing stringing on narrow legs and such. A small router will work though.

Tony Joyce

[Doug Shepard]

Basic question: Why would you use a Dremel with a Stewmac attachment instead of a small router (such as a Colt)? I think the cost would be about the same but the router would give you more flexibility. I'm also interested in doing some inlay work and want to better understand all my options. Thanks.

Steve

As far as I know the StewMac attachment is specifically made to fit a Dremel and wont take a Colt. There are 3-4 plunge bases out that will fit laminate trimmers like the Colt, but none of them are cheap. MicroFence probably has the best one. I know there's a more recent lam trimmer that comes with a plunge base but dont recall the name. Here's the plunge bases I have links for:

http://microfence.com/portable-threeaxis-mill-p-29.html

http://www.alliedlutherie.com/routerbases.htm

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Rout%2FShape%2FDril l&NameProdHeader=Routers+%26+Router+Bases

[Mike Henderson]

The Dremel is smaller easier to control for doing stringing on narrow legs and such. A small router will work though.

Tony Joyce
I agree that the Dremel is easier to control. I have both a Dremel and a Colt and I use both of them.

The "disadvantage" of the Dremel is that the attachments are not well made. The edge guide (or circle guide), for example, does not adjust quickly or easily nor stay in place well - but it will work.

I have a MicroFence attachment for the Colt so when I want real accuracy and adjustment, I use the Colt and the MicroFence.

But if I could only have one for doing inlay, I'd get the Dremel because it's easier to handle and you can get by with the attachments.

Mike

[added note - a lot of the really small router bits only come in 1/8" shank which is what the Dremel uses. To put them in the Colt, you have to get a sleeve adapter (the Colt has a 1/4" collet)]

[Doug Shepard]

Mike
Microfence also sells a couple of adapter pieces for the plunge base that will allow you to use the Dremel but maybe you were already aware of it. Just an option for small shank bits without the sleeve or heavier weight of the lam trimmer, although the base would still be larger than the StewMac type,

[Tony Joyce]

I must admit I've not used either one for cutting or excavating for inlays. I cut and tape my faces together then laminate to the substrate(example below). I'm thinking that for Federal style legs I'll do handwork for stringing and bellflowers.

Tony Joyce


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/%3Ca%20href=%22http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/woodmolds/Veneer/?action=view&current=Temp1021.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3 Cimg%20src=%22http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/woodmolds/Veneer/Temp1021.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Box%20Fa ce%22%3E%3C/a%3Ehttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/%3Ca%20href=%22http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/woodmolds/Veneer/?action=view&current=VeneerFaces001a.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank% 22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/woodmolds/Veneer/VeneerFaces001a.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22B ox%20Face%22%3E%3C/a%3Ehttp://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/woodmolds/Veneer/?action=view&current=VeneerFaces001a.jpg104856 104857 104859


http://www.amazon.com/Marquetry-Course-Jack-Metcalfe/dp/0713488506/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230346488&sr=8-1http://www.sawmillcreek.org/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/woodmolds/Veneer/Temp1021.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

[Jack Camillo]

I almost forgot, here is a excellent online video on string inlaying. Mostly handtools!

http://woodtreks.com/making-and-applying-decorative-string-inlay/477/

Tony Joyce

Thanks for posting this link.
jack

[Eric Brown]

While all the information posted so far has been very helpful, several questions still linger.

1. Are the only hand tool choices L-N or make your own?
2. In the one video, they used holly for the stringing. What other woods work well and which woods to avoid?
3. What about brass inlay. Is it done the same way?
(I know, I know, DON'T HANDPLANE BRASS!)
4. Is there a general rule as to how tight a curve can be?
Obviously thickness matters, but are there secrets to it. Steam bending perhaps?
5. What else besides wood or brass works well for the stringing?

Thanks for all replies. Eric

P.S. Happy Holidays!

[Mike Henderson]

Mike
Microfence also sells a couple of adapter pieces for the plunge base that will allow you to use the Dremel but maybe you were already aware of it. Just an option for small shank bits without the sleeve or heavier weight of the lam trimmer, although the base would still be larger than the StewMac type,
I didn't know that, Doug. I'll go check theit web site. Thanks for posting that.

I don't own the MicroFence plunge base for the colt - I just have that replacement baseplate that has the interface to the regular (I think it's the type A) router connection. But it's a fixed base. I do mostly veneer rather than inaly (Dewey is the expert on inlay) so I don't have a lot of inlay tools, equipment or experience.

Tony - that's some nice veneer work - fine work, detailed and well done.

Mike

[Tony Joyce]

Eric,
"1. Are the only hand tool choices L-N or make your own?"

As far as I know, yes.

"2. In the one video, they used holly for the stringing. What other woods work well and which woods to avoid?"

For stringing the holly is used because it does not typically take stains that were used on mahogany & cherry(chemicals) in times past and it is one of the whitest woods available. Also it is tight grained and bends well with heat. Most any wood can be used, each will have its own advantages and faults.

"3. What about brass inlay. Is it done the same way?"

I have no experience here, but from what I've read yes.

"4. Is there a general rule as to how tight a curve can be?"

Limited only by the wood's ability to be bent or it could be cut. So no. I have seen Steve Latta bend some very tight radius with a small soldering iron(dampen the wood first) and a strip of feeler gauge as a backer.

"5. What else besides wood or brass works well for the stringing?"

Many types of materials have and can be used ie: mother of pearl, celluloid, epoxy, etc.

Tony Joyce

Mike,
Thanks, those were done for practice after reading The Marquetry Course and before seeing Steve Latta work his magic. He makes it look so easy, but then I remember how much experience he has. As with all things technique first and speed will then come later with practice. I did about 25 of those in various woods, partly for the exercise and partly to get some ideas as to what looked good together. They were about 12" X 16" so I was able to sell several of them at the auction site.

[Dewey Torres]

1. Are the only hand tool choices L-N or make your own? For federal string work to the best of my knowledge, yes those are the only 2 choices.

2. In the one video, they used holly for the stringing. What other woods work well and which woods to avoid? For stringing, holly is used for 3 reasons 1) its white color,2) its flexibility,3) and its uniform grain. You can use other woods of course. I would avoid ebony for string work as it is very brittle and expensive. If you get dyed wood for black color you will save your self a lot of headaches.

3. What about brass inlay. Is it done the same way? Yes, brass is done the same way but you want it to be as close to flush as you can get it with any metal as they take plenty of work to flush up. I usually sand non ferric metals. It takes a while and they chew up sandpaper. I have a tutorial coming out soon which will show how to do this with copper. I am posting a sneak peek though and you can see the finished product in my album by clicking on my name.

4. Is there a general rule as to how tight a curve can be?
Obviously thickness matters, but are there secrets to it. Steam bending perhaps? If you watch the Latta video he shows how to heat bend the stringing for very tight radii. He uses a Mohawk tool with no moisture applied.

5. What else besides wood or brass works well for the stringing? Well, depending on your tastes I will tell you that you can inlay just about anything. Turquoise comes to mind but it would have to be very fine to put into a string channel. Pic shows how I did it with a much wider channel. In this example, you would not want use it for a federal leg of course.

I have to say, if you are doing federal work, try sticking to traditional materials. When you design your own project or want to embellish a bland project, then you can get cute and use experimental materials.

[Mike Henderson]

Tony - I'd very much appreciate if you would post pictures of some more of your work. I'd really like to see what you have done - so I can learn from it (I'm always looking for ideas, patterns and designs.

Mike

[I have "The Marquetry Course" and have used it for ideas, also.]

[Tony Joyce]

Dewey,

You're right about buying the black veneer, far simpler and cheaper than trying to make it. I could have bought alot of veneer for the time and money I spend experimenting and still not getting satisfactory results.

" If you watch the Latta video he shows how to heat bend the stringing for very tight radii. He uses a Mohawk tool with no moisture applied."

I've not seen the video, but this summer when Steve was bending some holly for a SAPFM seminar he wet his fingers and wiped the holly first. I remember some comment being made about it, but don't recall what. This evidentially would be something that's open for experimentation I guess. I believe you're right about the heat source. I was thinking it was a soldering iron he had modified, but in retrospect a soldering iron probably gets too hot and I think it was adjustable.

Tony Joyce

[Wendell Wilkerson]

I was thinking it was a soldering iron he had modified, but in retrospect a soldering iron probably gets too hot and I think it was adjustable.

Tony Joyce

You both are probably right. I just watched the scene in the Woodwright's Shop episode where Steve did the berries and stringing and he used a soldering iron and feeler gauges. I bet he has changed/upgraded his toolkit since the show. Also, in the video he specifically says no added moisture while bending the stringing to avoid swelling.

Wendell

[Mike Henderson]

Some time back, I bought some small downcut router bits to use for inlay. Then I forgot where I had bought them.

I just found them again and wanted to pass on the source. It was Drill Bit City (http://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/6pcnewdocutr.html), but only in their Yahoo store.

The bits are a tad on the expensive side (6 for $30) but they've worked well for me. They're 1/8" shank which fits the Dremel but you'd need an sleeve adapter to use them on a laminate trimmer.

They also carry upcut bits and those are a bit less expensive.

Mike

[Doug Shepard]

...
The bits are a tad on the expensive side (6 for $30) but they've worked well for me. They're 1/8" shank which fits the Dremel but you'd need an sleeve adapter to use them on a laminate trimmer.
...


Still way cheaper than the only other place I've seen them
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for:_Routing/Carbide_Downcut_Inlay_Router_Bits.html

Thanks for the tip

[Mike Henderson]

Still way cheaper than the only other place I've seen them
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for:_Routing/Carbide_Downcut_Inlay_Router_Bits.html

Thanks for the tip
You're right, Doug. But I'm really frugal (I didn't want to say "cheap").

Mike

[Tony Joyce]

These from Drill Technology seem pretty reasonable. They have the diamond carbide up-cut and down-cut($2.25@). Like in Mike's link. They also have the 2 flute carbide mills($7.50@). They also have a chipbreaker up-cut router bit($2.25@). Based on cutting diameter, I assume they are all 1/8" shank.

http://www.drilltechnology.com/router/chipbre.html

Tony Joyce

[harry strasil]

a small thumb router.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/router.jpg

a veneer slitting marking gauge. top right corner, for defining edges prior to routing, and for slitting material to size.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/Bbox05.jpg

a small adjustable thickness planer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/thicknessjig01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/thicknessjig02.jpg

a small width planer

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/bandingwidthshooboard.jpg

a small shoot board

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/bandingendsshootboard.jpg

a small miter box and a fine tooth dovetail saw, and some glue.

and a little work and you can end up with something like this.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/table1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/table2.jpg

[Alan DuBoff]

a small adjustable thickness planer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/thicknessjig01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/thicknessjig02.jpg

This is pretty cool, any more shots of this in action by chance? Clever mechanism to change the thickness. How thin can you get the inlay stock with this?

That looks like a nice little project for me!

Those inlays look nice!

[harry strasil]

I only went to a sixteenth, any thinner and the material buckles at the stop end. I used a stanley skew angle block plane with all those special jigs. or a special skew angle woody I made.

A Stanley 66 (I think it is) hand beader works well for scraping depressions for inlay too.

Or an old Windsor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/wnsrbeader01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/wnsrbeader02.jpg

its not hard to make a scratch stock and file some cutters from old junk handsaw blades.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/scraper1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/scraper2.jpg

Where there's a Will, There's a Way usually.

[Eric Brown]

These look very handy for small stuff. I hope to make some of them soon.

Thanks. Eric

[Rich Wedler]

Hi guys, here is a video for inlays that might be helpful for you:
http://microfence.com/video-i-6.html#inlay

[David Keller NC]

There's a blog posting about inlay for stringing, bellflowers and the like on the Pop Woodworking site:

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/Federalstyle+Inlay+Bellflowers+And+Stringing.aspx

Looks like about a 3 week wait or so before the issue comes out.

I've limited experience doing inlay for federal pieces, but one aspect that I noted very early on is that it's difficult to get clean side walls on the stringing with a dremel and little router bit. The reason was what you might think - certain parts of the curves were going directly against the grain of the wood, and the spinning router bit was going exactly anti-parallel with the grain because of its cutter geometry. A knife edge, because it's coming in from the top, is highly skewed to the direction of the grain, so even if I was not paying attention and orienting the knife in the opposite direction, a clean cut and good sidewalls was almost always the result.

[Michael O'Sullivan]

Regarding holly, is there a reason not to use basswood? It can be very flexible and has a nice uniform grain -- is it not white enough?

[David Keller NC]

Regarding holly, is there a reason not to use basswood? It can be very flexible and has a nice uniform grain -- is it not white enough?

Basswood is really soft. It might not scrape/sand very well in an inlay application.