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View Full Version : Woodworking in America: Bevel-up vs. Bevel-down Planes



Al Navas
12-23-2008, 8:55 AM
Merry Christmas, and my best wishes for a wonderful New Year!

From my blog:

Christopher Schwarz moderated this session on the second day of Woodworking in America in Berea, KY. Robin Lee and Thomas Lie-Nielsen participated. Highlights of items covered during this session:
Summary (from notes I took during the session - but everything is on the video):


Characteristics of both types of hand planes.
Questions with Robin Lee and Thomas Lie-Nielsen.
Questions from the audience.

Now for the good stuff:
Using a Veritas bevel-up plane as an example, Schwarz explained:


There is no removable frog.
These have been called "low angle" tools, which can be confusing because they can be made into high-angle tools.
What changes when using a bevel-up plane? We gain, due to some of the following advantages, and lose some due to a few disadvantages:



The sharpening angle of attack influences the angle of the tool: Low angle, for end grain, for example; and high angle for "tricky" grain.
The adjustment mechanisms are vastly different; they result in easier, and more accurate, blade adjustment with the bevel-up tools. Blade projection is easier; but lateral adjustment can be more tricky on the bevel-up planes.
There is no separate chip breaker. Robin Lee discusses wood failure.
Some discussion followed on changing the angle of attack by changing the back bevel on the iron; Schwarz does not like this approach, as it doubles sharpening time.
A major advantage of bevel-down smoothers and jointers: Making adjustments "on-the-fly", which gives great feedback to the user.
A disadvantage of the bevel-up tools: Cannot "point" with the index finger, or make adjustments.

Starting about 45 minutes into the session, the panel took questions from the audience. This was a great session with two major players on the tool manufacturing side, an amateur woodworker who doubles as a magazine editor, and an audience hungry for information.

A screen shot from the video:

http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/bevelup-down-screen.png


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Mark Singer
12-23-2008, 10:01 AM
So Al???? which is better? UP or DOWN?
I myself switch off a bit....the bevel up smoothers are very good for most woods. I seem to use them a bit more.

Al Navas
12-23-2008, 10:26 AM
Mark,

Your is a VERY good question, and it deserves my best shot. I am sure others who attended might disagree with me.

My take on the session, as it was not expressly stated - of course, you might want to watch the entire video, and make up your mind: The bevel-up planes provide versatility and ease of adjustment (projection) and use, and so might have an edge (no pun intended here, as this is serious stuff :cool:) over the bevel-down tools.

For example, the comment by Schwarz that a 14-inch bevel-up can be made into just about any "type" of plane one wishes, from a wood hog like a jack, to a short jointer, adjusting the mouth as one makes the changes, makes the bevel-up an extremely versatile to have. All that is required is some extra irons with proper bevels, and the time to adjust the mouth opening, and one has a "different" tool.


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Mark Singer
12-23-2008, 11:03 AM
Al,
That is true for the bevel up guys as well, we have the Veritas jack with different irons. As a dedicated smoother I think it is personal preference. The Marcou I reviewed was exceptional. Steve Knight and LN have some great BD planes..That is why we have more than one I guess.

Alan DuBoff
12-23-2008, 3:36 PM
Al,
That is true for the bevel up guys as well, we have the Veritas jack with different irons. As a dedicated smoother I think it is personal preference. The Marcou I reviewed was exceptional. Steve Knight and LN have some great BD planes..That is why we have more than one I guess.
Mark,

I use my LN 62 (BU Jack) a lot, and have the extra blades for it. Have the toothing blade which is great for roughing, standard LA which is good for end grain and shooting, and the higher angle for difficult grain. It is the plane I seem to reach for most, certainly one of my favorites.

Most all of my common bench planes are Stanley, but the LN is a joy to use. I wish I had more LN planes in that regard, but not looking to have every tool, just trying to assemble a working set, so in that regard the Stanley planes will do. Quite a bit sloppier than the LN, thinner blades, etc...to me I can see how someone would take a liking to this tool set.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/images/jts_lg.jpg

That outta get me a spittle shower, suggesting that there could be value in these expensive tools...but honestly, if one had this basic set of tools, they could do a great job at learning the basics of hand tool work. A real nice set of tools...and as I said that LN 62 is one of my favorites. All our mileage varies...