SCMI Class shaper is under power!

[J.R. Rutter]

I spent part of today hooking up and testing my new shaper. This is a 2004 SCMI T130 Class. It will be used for all panel raising and door edging, as well as some moulding type cuts. The spindles are pneumatically locked in, so that you can pop it out and lock in a new one in seconds. It came with 10 ea. 1-1/4" spindles. This is my second Class shaper, so I can share spindles between them. There are a total of 16 spindles now, so I can keep cutters mounted and just change spindles as needed. The pictures are not in my location, but tnow that it is running, I don't think it is too much of a cheat to use them...

http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/NewShop/T130%20Class%20%232/9391-01.jpg

It has a 2 axis controller (spindle and fence) that stores 99 programs for different cuts and cutters. I have just started to learn the ins and out of the controller. It is very basic and seems pretty straightforward. The rest of the switches are a fence lock, speed indicator, spindle lock, spindle release, emergency stop, program start button, reverse switch, motor start and stop, manual spindle and fence positioning, and manual/electronic selector.

http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/NewShop/T130%20Class%20%232/9391-03.jpg

The feeder arm is mounted to the controller support, and has a digital counter for height. It is very solid and flex-free. The feeder itself is a 3-wheel, 4 speed Maggi. I will be swapping it for a 4-wheel 8-speed Maggi.

http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/NewShop/T130%20Class%20%232/9391-06.jpg

The guts are typical T130, which indicates a 130mm diameter spindle cartridge. The white casting that the spindle rides up and down in quite massive and is over a foot long. The big disk at the bottom is the pneumatic clamp for the ISO40 spindles. The motor is 6.6 Kw, or about 7.5 HP. The steel rod to the left of the spindle gives additional support and guidance to the motor platform. There is a bronze bushing mounted to the casting that holds the motor that rides up and down on the rod. Speed change is manual via a tension release lever and multistep sheave system.

http://www.nas.com/~harmonic/NewShop/T130%20Class%20%232/9391-07.jpg

And of course, it has the same section table (cranks in and out on dovetail ways) and swing-away fence as the first Class shaper. The controller moves the entire fence in and out, while any offset is dialed in manually with a digital readout for repeatability. I would prefer a cast iron fence, as the aluminum is a bit flexible under heavy load. But all in all it is a precise system that makes for easy transitions from one type of cut to another.

How's that for a Christmas present?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

WOW! Thats one awsome machine! I'd say this may be a Christmas to remember?:D

I know Felder spindles are a bit spendy, mind if I ask what they run on this animal? Time is money, and I can sure see the benefit of swapping.

[Rick Fisher]

Great looking shaper. Wow...

[Larry Edgerton]

I have shaper envy! Very nice indeed. Congrats!

I have an older SCMI shaper and have been looking but I will probably look for an older 120 tilt if work ever picks up. That thing is awesome.

I do have some concerns as tools become more computorized and the controls become more complicated. What happens when they get old and they are no longer in production? I just bought an SCMI 520 and I was looking at the controls and the lift motor and wondering how hard those parts will be to find down the road. But I have had it for 4 years and nothing has broken, so my concerns may just be from too much fun in the 70's.

It sounds like you are busy out there? Good for you and thank your stars that you are not in Michigan.

[Jim Becker]

What a great machine! If I ever decided to get a shaper, I'd love to "find a find" like that!

[Maurice Ungaro]

Congrats! I mistook the title of your OP to read "SCMI Class shaper is under powered". Glad that's not the case!

[J.R. Rutter]

WOW! Thats one awsome machine! I'd say this may be a Christmas to remember?:D

I know Felder spindles are a bit spendy, mind if I ask what they run on this animal? Time is money, and I can sure see the benefit of swapping.

The spindles run about $500 each. But aside from speed, not having to change the actual cutters means less opportunity for someone to undertighten, change spacing, drop cutters, install them upside-down, etc. Less wear on the spindle and cutter bore also means less vibration on down the line.

We had a good year in 2008, so for tax reasons, it made sense to go forward with the investment despite the economic outlook.

If anyone needs a MiniMax T40N, or SCMI T110A or T120K (no tilt on any of them) just PM me!

[Jay Brewer]

JR, First class setup all the way around. Will these 2 130's handle all your shaping or have you kept a couple of your other shapers? Again, great setup, thanks for sharing

[Peter Quinn]

Wow, makes the shapers i use look down right rustic. Looks like a great set up.

[Mark Singer]

Super set up! That is hard to beat!

[Brian Peters]

Excellent shaper, I have used another model but a similar shaper. It was programmable too. Can I ask; why have 16 spindles like that if its programmable? That's an expensive way to save only a few seconds imo.. only thing I noticed about this line of shapers is you have to keep them clean, blow them out often otherwise they get a bit hairy.. also on startup if u do the warmup jog program (really reccomended) if its acting up it will drop the spindle all the way to the proxy switch. If the plate isn't all the way out and you have say a raised panel cutter in there things can get interesting if it drops that far!

[lou sansone]

great machine - best wishes with it in 09

lou

[J.R. Rutter]

Excellent shaper, I have used another model but a similar shaper. It was programmable too. Can I ask; why have 16 spindles like that if its programmable? That's an expensive way to save only a few seconds imo.. only thing I noticed about this line of shapers is you have to keep them clean, blow them out often otherwise they get a bit hairy.. also on startup if u do the warmup jog program (really reccomended) if its acting up it will drop the spindle all the way to the proxy switch. If the plate isn't all the way out and you have say a raised panel cutter in there things can get interesting if it drops that far!

Thank Brian. In a word - employees.

I realize that they can still drop a loaded spindle, but it removes other variables. We have been using digital height gauges for years, going off of a log sheet for each setup. It is repeatable as long as the correct spacers are used, not to mention installing the cutters right side up. My hope is to be able to color code and/or number the spindles. Our traveling paperwork will simply call out the specifics for each order.

I have an acquaintance with a cabinet shop in Seattle. His goal has been to design a process so that the average Starbucks barista could walk in and start making doors. In the past, some of my best employees have been college students. They are used to working with basic instructions, and they don't have time to burn out on repetition. I think that these shapers lend themselves to this sort of employee. We have been doing the cutter change routine for years, but it has gotten to the point where we are making extra parts, then throwing them away (or worse, letting them pile up) because changes are just enough of a hassle.

And, you have to admit, it is a cool shaper! It is like cars (and just as expensive in this case). By letting someone else bear the brunt of the initial cost to drive it off the lot, you can justify the 1/2 price cost as an upgrade. And Uncle Sam effectively paid for 30% of it, since it is a write off for this year.

[Chip Lindley]

WOW!! Pneumatic spindles! Digital Height Readout!! But ya still change belts by hand??? There goes your Starbucks Barista dude as employee. *HeyBoss! What is RPM??? I need to slow this Thang down for the panels!! C'mere a minute!!! *

Great machine!! I'm envious! I am "stuck" with my 6 hunks of iron that are manual, yet cost me practically nothing. Less than $2500 total for a PM26, Rockwell HD, Woodtek 3hp, two Moak 3hp's, and a DavisWells 2hp. (Oh and that includes 4 stock feeders) We both can *GLOAT* !!

[Brian Peters]

It's a great shaper no doubt; the maggii feeder is a great addon too and that feeder is top notch; probably one of the best brand feeders I have used. I just never saw the need for more than one or two spindles. With a log book of all of the programs in order by cutter name (C1, C2 etc whatever) a picture of the profile and the fence height and rpm info it will save a lot of time. But I wouldn't want any old guy running that shaper. It's an expensive piece of equipment and as easy as it is to use and teach someone to use its an expensive toy to break. Also, it is really neccessary regardless of this one or a regular old powermatic to have fundamental knowledge of using a shaper. You could definetly set it up and have a joe shmoe feeding stock through it all day but it takes an experienced woodworker to run a shaper like that efficiently.

Cast iron fences are good btw; but the aluminum is better in the long run. If one of the fence slips and goes into the cutter you don't lose a $300+ cope and stick set, aluminum is so soft carbide tips will chew through it like butter. One thing I noticed too if you didn't already have it on your mind is to double stack cope and stick sets and put a spacer in between; it works out really nice because you don't have to take it off and change it every time. This shaper can definetly spin 6 cutter sets with no problem!



Thank Brian. In a word - employees.

I realize that they can still drop a loaded spindle, but it removes other variables. We have been using digital height gauges for years, going off of a log sheet for each setup. It is repeatable as long as the correct spacers are used, not to mention installing the cutters right side up. My hope is to be able to color code and/or number the spindles. Our traveling paperwork will simply call out the specifics for each order.

I have an acquaintance with a cabinet shop in Seattle. His goal has been to design a process so that the average Starbucks barista could walk in and start making doors. In the past, some of my best employees have been college students. They are used to working with basic instructions, and they don't have time to burn out on repetition. I think that these shapers lend themselves to this sort of employee. We have been doing the cutter change routine for years, but it has gotten to the point where we are making extra parts, then throwing them away (or worse, letting them pile up) because changes are just enough of a hassle.

And, you have to admit, it is a cool shaper! It is like cars (and just as expensive in this case). By letting someone else bear the brunt of the initial cost to drive it off the lot, you can justify the 1/2 price cost as an upgrade. And Uncle Sam effectively paid for 30% of it, since it is a write off for this year.

[Mike Heidrick]

VERY VERY Nice!

[J.R. Rutter]

Here is a photo of it in my shop, with power to it. Gotta love it when the machines start requiring keys... The other shaper is just beyond, and the remaining 3 shapers are behind it. I may keep one of the T40s as a router table, not sure yet. Looking forward to the extra floor space. We're gonna need it for the next "little" tool that is coming next month.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

J.R., curious about the scale of a business that uses tooling like you have. Don't respond if you dont want to, but it's interesting to see very efficient machines like your shapers, which like you said, cost as much as a good car, vs machines that can produce the same result, very inefficiently, for 1/10th the cost.

Guess my question is, what size do you think a business needs to be to see the efficiencies afforded by these tools, turn into a profit margin?

[J.R. Rutter]

J.R., curious about the scale of a business that uses tooling like you have. Don't respond if you dont want to, but it's interesting to see very efficient machines like your shapers, which like you said, cost as much as a good car, vs machines that can produce the same result, very inefficiently, for 1/10th the cost.

Guess my question is, what size do you think a business needs to be to see the efficiencies afforded by these tools, turn into a profit margin?

It has as much to do with business philosophy and taxes as it does with efficiency and scale.

My personal approach has been to avoid debt. I started with a Powermatic 27, the best shaper that I could afford at startup. After 7 years, I just sold it for half of what I paid for it, but it made a lot of doors and money while I owned it. I figure that since I am still involved in production activities every day, I want to use the best tools that I can. I have never regretted buying more machine than I needed at the time, but have regretted buying just enough. Life is too short to be faced with (avoidable) small frustrations every day. By investing back into my company, I can avoid excessive taxes and move closer to the goal of having a very flexible high end shop that will continue to earn profits even in a shrinking economy.

As for scale, I currently have 3,500 SF of shop space, and 3 employees. Capacity is about 50 raised panel doors per day, or 100 ply panel doors. If you want to keep moving forward in terms of revenue, quality, and business value, then reinvestment is a must. You can produce amazing things on basic equipment, but the right tool lets you do it faster and easier, and even better, lets someone else do it.

[Jay Brewer]

Beautiful setup JR. What do you find is the biggest bottle neck in your setup for building doors? ( if any ) I have found in my small setup that when you improve one step, it bottle necks at the next step. Mine is definitely the hand sanding of the panel profile and the edge profile. Even with good sharp insert tooling it is unavoidable. How do you handle the profile sanding?

It is amazing the money that can be thrown at building a simple RP door efficiently.. When I walk into my shop and see that 2/3 of the equipment is for building a stupid door that I could outsource to a door builder for less than I can make them for, it really make me question why I didnt just stay in "box" building, and put all that extra money in my pocket.

Again, you have a great setup, I wish you all the best in the coming year.

[Karl Brogger]

A shop I used to work for had about 50 employees, operated out of I'm guessing 15,000 sq ft, (probably more) and did medium grade custom cabinetry. The best year I was there we grossed close to $27 million. We cranked out on average 5 kitchens a day, the record being 9 kitchens, biggest job we did while I worked there took 2-1/2 days to get out of the shop.

Moral of the story is we had every widget and tool imaginable. All of the rail and stile material for doors was handled by a moulder. It had a dedicated employee who did nothing but set it up and throw material at it. Something to consider down the road, while having one machine that can do multiple things, it can't do them at the same time. At that shop we had somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 shapers setup for doing individual things. Settings were never changed, in fact with insert tooling I don't think the heads were ever pulled out of the machines. Out of the probably 3 styles of stick cutters we had, we used a left and right cope for the rails, and a dedicated shaper for each door edge profile. FAST!

The revolving panel clamps are sweet too. I have no idea what one runs, but we had an automated model. Set the width of the clamps, throw the glued pieces in, hit a button. Awesome!

For the raised panel scoop we used a 4 head Voorwood moulder, did the scoop, the relief and then sanded both in one pass. Same with a couple of the door edge profiles we used.

With the correct panel profiles a door did not have to be hand sanded at all except for breaking edges on the back. We had 3 seperate Timesavers, two 43" dual head models, and a buffing Timesaver.

That shop is the most efficient cabinet shop I have ever seen. Quality control was phenomenal too. With a slight change in hardware, and material they could have produced some of the nicest kitchens made. Too bad the owner is one of the biggest jerks I have ever met, or I would probably still be working there instead of going on my own.

[J.R. Rutter]

Beautiful setup JR. What do you find is the biggest bottle neck in your setup for building doors? How do you handle the profile sanding?

It is amazing the money that can be thrown at building a simple RP door efficiently.

As you say, the bottleneck is always shifting. Right now it is in S4S milling. We do that in-house to control flatness better than bringing in S2S lumber. I am working on that now, and should have a solution up and running in the first quarter next year.

Ultimately, I want to move the constraint out front to sales.

We still hit raised panel profiles with a ROS and extra soft pad at 220 grit. Just enough to get a matte surface all around. Going to all insert cutterheads has helped quite a bit. I looked at Unique's door cell setup and decided that with so many different profiles, the changeover time, especially on a shape and sand, would be tough.

Too bad you're not closer, I make doors that you would be proud to put onto your boxes...

[Steve Jenkins]

J.R. That is one sweet machine. I remember when you first started mitered doors in your garage on Chuckanut. Maybe that was when you started dorrs period. You've come a long way. Not sure when I'm going to get up there but will make it a point to stop by.

[J.R. Rutter]

Hey Steve! You are always welcome. You got to see the shop right after I moved into the building where I am now. Yes, when I started in the garage, I had 2 DeWalt miter saws bolted to a bench: one for right, one for left. I still use the Hoffman dovetail setup for miters. Maybe this economy will free up someone's Ballestrini . . .

[J.R. Rutter]

Karl - I would enjoy getting your thoughts on my setup, if you are ever in the pacific northwest.

I have been challenged by the need to produce so many different profiles. The machine and tooling cost for running a counter rotating cope for every profile has led me to the cope first method. I am designing a station that will add about 15 minutes per kitchen compared to the moulder approach. For now, I think it is the way to go for my level of production.

[Don Bullock]

Hey, Santa got lost. That was supposed to be delivered to my shop.;):D

Seriously, congratulations and enjoy.

[Karl Brogger]

Karl - I would enjoy getting your thoughts on my setup, if you are ever in the pacific northwest.

I have been challenged by the need to produce so many different profiles. The machine and tooling cost for running a counter rotating cope for every profile has led me to the cope first method. I am designing a station that will add about 15 minutes per kitchen compared to the moulder approach. For now, I think it is the way to go for my level of production.

I just want to say that I wasn't knocking the way you are doing things. I just wanted to add, what I considered to be, a textbook example of effeciency at work in cabinetry. It is something that I want to work towards. It takes a very large amount of space to contain that much tooling. The guy who ran the moulder, besides making all of the mouldings and stick material sized all of the face frame material. We stocked the four staples in required sizes for frame material, oak, maple, cherry, birch. We didn't do use anything exotic, hickory, walnut, and lyptus were a rare occasion to have come through the shop.

Growth is hard, its always a trade off of this and that. I work out of about 1600 sq ft, at the end of year four on myown in that space, I have no space left. I had one employee, but things have been so miserably slow, I had to lay him off. I was hoping that this year I'd would have been able to build a new shop with about 5k sq/ft, and add a couple more people. Possibly a 10k sq/ft building, and rent out the other half. At this stage of the game though, keeping debt to a minimum is priority one. I'm glad your getting steady work though, wish I was in that boat again.:(

The truth is that I don't think I'd ever want to run a shop of that magnitude anyway. Too hard to control, too hard to not have to be a jerk to keep the people in line. And when things slow down, like it has around here, it really hurts. My goal is still around 10 people on the payroll. 10 guys can crank out alot of work when properly equipped.

[Bill White]

a lunar rover. How did ya ever figger it out? You didn't READ THE DIRECTIONS did ya?
Bill

[J.R. Rutter]

I just want to say that I wasn't knocking the way you are doing things.

Not at all. And it really helps to hear about other shops' approach. I started this business without working in the industry first, which has been both a blessing and a curse.

I will be adding a nice "little" SCM moulder to the front end of the shop as soon as the conversion to 230V is finished! Aside from crown and trim packages to go with doors, it will S4S everything. We will continue to do a rough x-cut up front to get the flattest parts possible out of the moulder.