Making drawers with pocket screws

[Steven Bolton]

I want to make a few drawers with 1/2 inch baltic birch. It would be interesting to hear what you folks think about building drawers with Kreg pocket screws.

Also, do you put in a 1/4 inch bottom or pocket screw 1/2 inch baltic birch in the bottom?

Would they be long lasting?

Thanks

Steve Bolton

[Dan Bowman]

The Kreg manual specifically notes that they do not recommend joining 1/2" to 1/2" material, but if you do, use the 1" screw. I tried it on some drawer boxes made from BB and the points were right at the surface. I decided against it

[frank shic]

yes, you can pocket hole screw 1/2" birch ply together! just remember to change the depth setting on your jig and to use shorter screws. i usually dado the drawer bottom but you could pocket screw them in as well. don't forget to overlap the drawer sides over the the drawer front and back. the pocket screws should go in the fronts and backs so that they remain hidden as long as you're using a false drawer front to cover up the drawer front.

[Dewey Torres]

1/2 material is too small for this. On the other question, 1/8 drawer bottom are plenty unless they are going to have real heavy things in them.

You didn't say what these drawers are for... might help with the answer.

[glenn bradley]

I have made many drawers for shop cabinets this way. None have ever failed over the years. 1/2" BB ply, 1" pan head coarse thread PH screws, front and back glued and screwed between the sides, 1/4" BB ply bottoms in 1/4" dado 3/8" up from the bottom. Quick and easy, strong and long lasting so far . . . .

If I'm not in a hurry I use a locking drawer joint with just glue.

[Steven Bolton]

drawers would be for shop or utility purposes. Not heirloom funiture (which I can't build anyway).

Which drawer lock bit do you use/recommend?

Thanks

sb

[Dewey Torres]

For shop cabinets go ahead. If it doesn't work it will be a lesson to improve upon.

[David Giles]

Don't give up on the pocket screwed drawers yet! There is no faster way to make utility or kitchen drawers. 1/2" baltic birch will work fine with pan head screws. I suspect the non-Baltic ply may be a little thinner. The washer head screws are too big of diameter to set flush with the surface.

Drill at least 3-4 holes and put two right angle clamps per joint, then screw the remaining holes. Absolutely tune the tablesaw blade to perfectly vertical. Any deviation shows up when the four joints flush up.

1/4" floors in a groove work well. Undersizing the back and sliding the floor last makes finishing a breeze.

[Joe Scharle]

The lower 2 drawer bottoms are 1/2" ply because they hold routers and drills etc. the top 2 are have 1/4" ply bottoms and they hold squares, chisels etc. Entire box is pocket screwed (no glue). Drawer sides are 1/2" ply, pocket screwed front & rear and inset 1/2" for the slides. All bottoms float, sit in a 1/8" deep dado and can be replaced from the back. So far it's holding up fine in the shop.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/970/Rolling_Shop_Box.JPG

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/970/Pocket_Hole_Drawer.JPG

[Steven Bolton]

Thank for the info. Actually, the baltic birch is just a little under 1/2 inch.
Thanks for the feedback.




Steve Bolton

[glenn bradley]

Which drawer lock bit do you use/recommend?

I've used some that cost about $10 less than the Whiteside #3347 but at under $30 (at Woodpeckers or Holbren), it lasts many times longer. Due to the interlocking profile these can only be sharpened so much. I have been giving this one a bit of a touch-up now and again and have yet to think about a full sharpening.

P.s. Holbren gives SMC folks a 10% discount with the code 'SMC10'

[Jim Becker]

I have begun to use this method for utility drawers and like the easy assembly. Once you get the drill stop set correctly (and marked for future projects), it's very easy and fast. Obviously, this is for drawers that utilize false fronts...but that's pretty much every drawer I build. You do need the shorter screws, however...

[John Gornall]

1/2 plywood sides, front and back - butt joints - 1/2 inch bottom flush all around not in a slot - all joints glued and then stapled with 1 3/4 inch narrow crown staples. Make a drawer in 5 minutes that will last your lifetime. Narrow crown staples have amazing holding power - you can't pull them out. The 2 legs go in different directions and twist locking themselves in. I made a couple of test butt joints - clamped in my vise and pulled - the plywood broke, the staples didn't move.

[Tony Bilello]

This method is quick and easy. The bottom is locked in on all four sides. There is no reason to make the bottom removable if it is made from plywood. Many moons ago, the bottoms were made of solid wood and would eventually split. They were made removable so they could be repaired. This is no longer a problem when using plywood.
The front, rear and sides are glued and brad nailed together.
A solid front is then added when finished. If I am going to use a drawer pull with 2 screws, that will be all I use to hold the drawer front on place.
If I use a drawer pull with 1 screw, then I will use the one screw and run 2 brad nails in from the rear. This will stabilize the drawer front and still be easy to remove if desired.

[Steven Bolton]

How do you put the Crown staples in? Air nailer?

SB

[John Gornall]

air stapler - I bought Ridgid from the Borg and it's been a good tool and one I'm glad I bought - lots of use often replacing the brad nailer.

[John Gornall]

Not to get anyone grumpy but I'd be willing to bet my glued on bottom with staples will hold a lot more weight than a bottom in a slot cut in plywood. Those couple of plies below the slot aren't very strong and they're carrying all the load - I've seen many break.

As an engineer I see that slot around the bottom of drawers which carries the drawer bottom to be a weak link. There's a lot of stress on a few wood fibers. Failure of the wood below the slot is the most common problem I've noticed in old furniture. And reading woodworking design books there are many techniques to build a stronger drawer.

[Chip Lindley]

As always, it depends on what weight the drawer will be required to hold. A bath vanity drawer with hairbrush and toothpaste? Or a shop drawer with a 4-Jaw lathe chuck? It just depends....

Then again are the asthetics. New undermount full-motion slides require 1/2" clearance from underside of drawer bottom to bottom of side, to effectively hide the slide. Even if side-mounts are used, I would hide the drawer bottom in a rabbet, 'cause I just don't want to see it on my drawers.

Now, shop drawers are different...few esthetics there...some overkill may be the order of the day!! (But many here at the Creek would have *Nicer* shop drawers than many kitchens sport!) HoHoHo!!! MerryChristmas!

[Chip Lindley]

Sounds like a more-than-adequate shop drawer! Not something I want to see in a nice kitchen or bath job tho...(IMHO)

[Joe Chritz]

This is strictly personal preference (and I have made a lot of drawers with 1/2 BB) but I find the perfect dimension for drawer sides to be about 5/8". BB is available in that size and when possible is what I go for, unfortunately I have to have it ordered in around here.

1/2" to 1/2" works OK, especially for a shop drawer. On my shop drawers I used a lock miter since I have 21 to build in heights up to 9 inches or so. That seemed like a lot of dovetail jig time. Every method has a trade off or two but the Kreg drawers are very fast and more then adequately strong.

Joe

[frank shic]

john makes a good point: a butt jointed drawer full thickness bottom can be much stronger than a dadoed 1/4" plywood or melamine. i can't see a reason not to screw them in if you're using epoxy drawer slides which would effectively cover the joint line. danny proulx advocated this method in his building kitchen cabinet book. btw, i would highly recommend the kreg corner clamps prior to driving the pocket screws in if you go with that method.

[Larry Edgerton]

This method is quick and easy. The bottom is locked in on all four sides. There is no reason to make the bottom removable if it is made from plywood. Many moons ago, the bottoms were made of solid wood and would eventually split. They were made removable so they could be repaired. This is no longer a problem when using plywood.
The front, rear and sides are glued and brad nailed together.
A solid front is then added when finished. If I am going to use a drawer pull with 2 screws, that will be all I use to hold the drawer front on place.
If I use a drawer pull with 1 screw, then I will use the one screw and run 2 brad nails in from the rear. This will stabilize the drawer front and still be easy to remove if desired.

I am with you on this. This would be an absolute minimum in my shop, and you will never see a Kreg jig screwed drawer coming out of my shop. This method is strong and fast, easy to master and easy on the eye.

For absolute strength in a shop dwawer I use a box joint, stronger than a dovetail if not as interesting, and easy to make. Most cabinet jobs get dovetails over box joints, not for strength but because that is what people like to see.

You can regulate the strength of a drawer by where you put the rabbit. For example in my shop I have well over 100#s in some drawers, so I used poplar, box jointed, and I moved the bottom rabbit up 1/2" from the bottom. on a light aplication I will run it 1/4 up from the bottom. I always use 1/4" bottoms unless the drawer is excessively wide and deep, captivate them on all sides so they float, and I have not had a failure yet, even in my shop where I abuse the heck out of them.

[Greg Sznajdruk]

A lock rabit joint is probably a little longer to creat than using Kreg screws and looks better too.

http://www.woodmagazine.com/wood/file.jsp?item=video/player&temp=yeshttp://www.woodmagazine.com/wood/file.jsp?item=video/player&temp=yes

Go to case construction and find section on drawer construction once you set up your dado on the table saw you can knock out drawers in no time.

Greg

[M. A. Espinoza]

If strictly utility, Gornall's method is the way to go. Glued and stapled the drawers will be very fast to build and hold up very well.

Won't get you in a magazine but the time you save can be used to build something that will.

[Tony Bilello]

drawers in my shop that I anticipate to carry a heavy load. This usually requires and additional step such as a flat frame inside the carcase for the drawer bottom to ride on. If you dont want to use the proper drawer slides underneath it, there will be a lot of friction drag.
I treat drawer bottoms styles like I do joinery.......I use the easiest one that will be sufficient to do the job. For those of you that have never used baltic Birch plywood for drawer sides, it is way stronger than you would think. I would never use normal cabinet grade plywood for drawer sides.

[Mark Singer]

You may want to check my old thread...
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=15940&highlight=workstations

sides are 1/2" baltic birch. Bottom prefinished 1/4" birch or melamine. screws on the outside so they get covered by the drawer front..Roo Glue on prefinished parts