best material for TS inserts?

[Gene Howe]

Is UHMW good for a TS insert or, is solid phenolic better? Or, :confused: is there another plastic like material you'd recommend?

Related question: Are there adhesives available for UHMW or Phenolic? The plastics seller sites seem to only carry adhesives for polycarbonate.

Thanks folks!

[Jason Perrott]

As a plastic fabricator for 7 years I can tell you there is no adhesive for UHMW, phenolic not so sure, but highly doubt it.
Polycarb can be glued using pvc solvents(the liquid-runny type) that is available everywhere.

Personally I would not use polycarb as an insert, it just has so much "potential energy" to catch and fly. It is not a material you want to "shoot" at you with any force. I know this from cutting some on a chopsaw, trying to shave off an 1/8" without supporting all the way behind the cut with a scrap wood piece. It caught and my thumb bore the brunt of all that energy, it was numb for like 4 hours!

good luck,
Jason

[glenn bradley]

I prefer BB ply but, between your choices, phenolic is stiffer. These things do wear out so I generally make a batch of 6 or so at a time. This gives me one for rip, general, crosscut and dado and a couple spares that are ready to go if one gets to that 'too worn out' point in the middle of something.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=82338&d=1203729132

[Chip Lindley]

My ADHD had me thinking faster than I was reading. I was thinking router table inserts. A whole 'nother issue.

As for zero clearance INSERTS for a TS, I just use Melamine mdf for those. I consider them expendible.

[Lee Schierer]

Not to disagree with Jason, but there is an andhesive for UHMW. I have several rolls of UHMW tape that have adhesive on the back. That adhesive sticks better to UHMW than it does to steel, though there must be some surface prep done because the tape doesn't stick well to itself. I have used acrylic based double sided tape to bond UHMW to wood and other surfaces. I will agree that I have never seen a liquid type glue for UHMW.

[Jason Perrott]

Lee would be correct in the fact that UHMW will hold together with a physical bond whether it be two sided tape or machine screws. I know of no chemical bonding agent (glue) that will work. We double stick it together and then drill and tap to form mechanical bonds.

I have thermo- plastic welded uhmw but you must use nitrigen as an air source vs. CDA (clean dry air) to prevent oxidation.

I would agree that phenolic is the appropriate choice for your needs.

Jason

[Gene Howe]

Thank you all. Appreciate your quick responses and, as always, the sharing of your knowledge.:)

[Mark Godlesky]

I've made a bunch out of plain old MDF and have been perfectly happy with them. I drilled and tapped them for hex leveling screws. I put a couple of drops of CA glue on the threads amd let dry before inserting the screws. I think it makes the threads a little more durable, but this is probably not necessary.

I like having extra blanks so I can quickly have a new insert if I change blades or use a dado width I haven't used before. Remember to mark the insert so you know which blade to use it with next time.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I would second the MDF choice. If you go spending a bunch on a zero clearance insert, then you are going to treat it less expendably than it should be. When the kerf widens too much, either replace it or fill it with expoxy and start over. I make 5-6 at a time so that I always have a new one, and they are very handy to have for dado stacks of differing widths.

Doc

[Dar Lounsbury]

I have seen acyclic or poly plastic inserts heat up and fuse to the TS blade with the would be expected nasty disaster. I use BB or phenolic and sometimes MDF.

[Larry Browning]

Couldn't you make a pretty nice ZCI from corian? Its about 1/2 inch thick isn't it? I've even thought about getting one of those plastic cutting boards from Wal-Mart and making one from it.

[Tom Veatch]

I've used UHMW as a base for a zci with a sliding dovetail slot for replacable hardboard inserts that works very well. The thickness isn't quite correct for my saw, Jet JTAS-10, but setscrew height adjusters takes care of that.

Another thing I've used and been well pleased with is laminating a couple of 1/4" hardboard sheets and a formica type laminate on top of that. That sandwich turns out to be the exact thickness of the insert pocket in the saw. That was when you could get actually 1/4" hardboard. Don't know how well the "new, improved" stuff you get now would work.

[Jim Becker]

I used 1/2" MDF scraps for ZCIs with the cabinet saw I used to own.

[Joe Chritz]

I had gotten some industrial cutting board material that I used to make several. Not sure what it is called but it is really nice stuff.

If I can't score anymore of that I will likely use BB ply or MDF or melamine or whatever is handy.

Joe

[scott spencer]

My experience with UHMW for inserts is that it flexes. Phenolic is much stiffer.

[Larry Edgerton]

I get my plastics/phenolics for inserts/jigs/router bases from this guy. It is a large company but you can buy cutoffs at very inexpensive prices. They have every type of plastic imaginable. They will also cut any plastics in any quanity or shape if you guys with a commercial shop find the need. The service is as good as it gets.

Howard Everton
Norva Plastics
Norfolk Va.
757 622 9281

Oh Ya: www.norvaplastics.com (http://www.norvaplastics.com)

[Heather Thompson]

Gene,

I bought a Betterly ZCI for both of my tablesaws, it is an aluminum plate that holds a replaceable insert, the manufacture wants approx 30.00 for four replacement inserts. I have found that a 1/4"x4"x48" piece of UHMW will yield 8 inserts for about .81 per insert, two leftover for bandsaw inserts if you are careful. Personally I think the Betterly is the best thing going, no flex, great adjustability, great product. I am in the process of selling one of my saws, Delta contractor (upgraded to a PM66), if the deal falls through and it would work for you we can work a deal.

Heather

[John Thompson]

Phenolic is great but expensive. I take a 2 x 4 sheet of 1/2" birch ply and cut 6-8 at one time using my original throat. I draw out the shape and cut them proud of the line by 1-2 mm.. then screw the original throat plate to the under side of the ply plate. A bearing patten bit takes the last 1-2mm to exact.

About $7 gets you 6-8 as Glen mentioned. I haven't used MDF yet but it would work if others say so and have thought about using it and it's cheaper than the ply.

Sarge..

[Andrew Nemeth]

I made my current dado ZCI from corian scrap I had laying around from another project and it has been great. Tapped all four corners for leveling studs and it has held up well. I think it is a bit more stable than MDF.

[Karl Brogger]

I use melamine, I don't bother with leveling screws.

As far as UHMW being too flexible, what about making it thicker, then cutting notches where it hits the stops on top of the table?

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

is there another plastic like material you'd recommend?
Actually - I've been tossing around the idea that machinable wax might make an ideal material for inserts.

[Art Moore]

MDF here, a couple of coats of poly and a little wax go a long way.

[John Ricci]

I used 1/4" phenolic for my zci but only because I had a full sheet of it around from my dads old stash and I do mean old, it took me forever to get the paper and adhesive off of it:mad: That one sheet will make a lot of inserts so I'm good for a while I think. I like the birch ply idea too and will have to try it out for myself.

J.R.

[Richard Blaine]

Or, :confused: is there another plastic like material you'd recommend?
Thanks folks!

I picked up some 1/2" PVC sign material years ago, and it has worked good. I' haven't put leveling screws in, but I think it would work fine.

[Mike Robbins]

MDF scrap.