PDA

View Full Version : Chimney, wood burning question



Rob Noble
12-21-2008, 1:46 PM
Ok.....a little off topic but im trying to find an answer asap and it does relate to wood.......lol.

I ran out of wood the a week ago and the only thing I had left to burn was unseasoned walnut. Huge mistake. I am now in the process of replacing all my pipes because of cresote buildup.

Anyhow.......when I scrapped out the cresote in the wall penetration going into the chimney.......I pushed all the cresote into the chimney. I then went outside to open the trap door cleanout at the bottom of the chimney which is app. 5' below the wall penetration.

Low and behold........despite pushing several cups of crap into the chimney there's nothing in the cleanout. Hmmm. I reached into the wall penetration as far as possible and there seems to be a blockage. I thought perhaps it was ice so I added several cups of ice melt. After poking at it with a screwdriver it seems to have more of a concrete consistency and fills the entire hole. I can't quite tell though and you can't see it. Is there something that's supposed to be here?? I thought maybe it's just supposed to have some small holes in it but that doesn't really seem right.

I'm going to let the salt sit in there another 15 minutes before trying again.

Thoughts????

Rob Noble
12-21-2008, 2:03 PM
I may have to get a mirror. I am hoping this is ice but im starting to get a bad feeling about this. This house could easly stared in that film "Money Pit".

Mike Cutler
12-21-2008, 3:10 PM
I'm actually thinking it is a creosote build up in the base of the chimney. It could be ice, if the top of your chimney is open, no screen or cap installed. I really hope it isn't concrete, unless it's there by design.

I have had similar buildup. I got a rope about 50' long and tied a rubber coated 10 lb weight to it. Went up to the roof and let it drop down the chimney to clear any blockage.
If you don't own a brush and set of poles, this mighty be a good time to invest in them. Keeping a chimney clean is very easy, and necessary for proper venting/flue operation. A set of quality fiberglass poles and a chimney brush will run $50.00-$100.00 depending on the height of the chimney and the size of the brush required.
I clean my chimney a few times a year, and always once in the spring.

PS. a women's compact mirror and flashlight are excellent for looking up the chimney. damhikt. ;)

Kevin Godshall
12-21-2008, 3:20 PM
The idea is that ash ideally is the only residue given off from burning wood, and when that falls from the chimney lining it collects in the bottom, where there is a cleanout. The reason it is below the outgoing pipe, is so that when the residue falls it does not immediately block the exiting smoke and fumes.

When you burn "green" wood and give off creosote, it is a sticky paste that coats the walls of everything, and it is combustible, hence the problem with chimney fires.

If you have blockage above your cleanout, but below or at your piping level, you are currently building blockage to your exiting fumes every time you burn, whether they are ash (soot) or creosote. You need to remove that blockage, but any means necessary.

Before you burn your fire too hot, or hopefully never burn paper, you need to make sure your chimney lining is clear of creosote. When at a high enough temperature (to liquify it) and a ignition source, it may and will burn inside of your chimney. The danger comes from the sparks and fire exiting your chimney and landing on your roof and igniting your roof. (I'm assuming a block chimney, other problems if you are using triple walled pipe). And, of course, the intense heat may cause cracking in the lining or block itself.

Get the cleanout opened and cleared. Fully inspect the chimney and clean as best as you can. Have it done professionally if you aren't able to do it yourself.

Rob Noble
12-21-2008, 3:34 PM
Thanks guys.

Well let's see..........everything in the mirror looks the same: black.

When I chip at it the tool seems to be ice covered. Id like to drop something down it like you mentioned but it's very windy out and very cold. So can't do that now. I am thinking it's frozen creosote as I know for a fact I liquified some of it.

This blockage is about 1' down from the wall penetration. I was able to jam a shop vac hose thru the cleanout about 4' or so in there before I hit something. I backed it off slightly and put the wifes hair dryer on the other end on high heat. Gonna let it run for about 1/2hr and see where it gets me.

If no luck I will just have to wait till weather permits and get up there and drop something. This is really pissing me off. I've been working on this thing since 8am. I just cracked a miller lite........before I go nuts.

Rob Noble
12-21-2008, 3:38 PM
Also.......this chimney is old there's nothing saying this isn't a piece of the flu that fell apart. I won't know till I get it out. If that's the case ill be done burning wood for the winter.

Somedays I just really want to lecture my wife on keeping this place. This place was "literally" falling down. And truthfully it still is.........which is why I get to cut out a big hole in the floor soon and get into a crawlspace designed for a cat and see if I can't do some repairs. I work construction......so coming home to this crap isn't real motivating. I replaced the roof, everything underneath it needs replaced. And now my chimney might be trashed as well.

Randy Cohen
12-21-2008, 3:40 PM
I would take a cordless drill with a very long bit and start drilling it out. if you could get something like that to fit into the cleanout and then up. theres probably a pile of creosote sitting on top of it.

Rob Noble
12-21-2008, 3:50 PM
I would take a cordless drill with a very long bit and start drilling it out. if you could get something like that to fit into the cleanout and then up. theres probably a pile of creosote sitting on top of it.

This was also a thought of mine.......unfornetely this is a small flu and this is impossible. Otherwise id be all over it. I'm thinking it's pile of creosote also. A few more beers and I might just burn it out. LOL. That was a joke. Don't think im not laughing thinking about it though. Nothing like getting your butt kicked working on a chimney on your day off. I should just go push it over and tell the wife the wind did it.

I don't know.....we'll see.

Mark Bolton
12-21-2008, 4:09 PM
If you think its ice they why not try either throwing an electric heater in the cleanout door, or lighting a small kindling wood fire in the cleanout. It would never be enough fire to start a chimney fire as the creosote has to be liquid to burn. You would melt the ice blockage and if nothing else it would fall onto the kindling fire and put it out.

We have burned walnut in our stove before and while its not great, we also run our fire very hot and at least once a day let it really rip, this will usually clear out most creosote buildup. Low and slow is where your creosote buildup come from. We do that all night, so in the morning we let-er-rip. This would likely not be advisable if your chimney is in the shape you make it sound like.

Mark

Rob Noble
12-21-2008, 4:10 PM
Partial success.

After writing my last post I went to the living room and could hear the air from the hair dryer, something that wasn't audible before. I was actually able to chip nearly a third or so of it out, I dropped my screwdriver and it went all the way to the clean out. Great!!

Now if the wifes hair dryer can run another hour or so!!

The actual flu doesn't look to be a real problem, most of it appears to be on the stovepipes. I think it was liquifing and falling down. I'll probably use it if I get it cleaned out but will be brushing it shortly. I thought at first maybe just use it and the let the chunk melt away but no thanks as I didn't really know what it was and being that I have skin grafts on 30% of my body im kinda like fire marshall bill which really drives the wife nuts.

For those on this thread that like brisket:

Insert as much onions(mainly) and celery as possible into a crockpot with whatever size brisket you can put in there. Add 2 jars of chili sauce(the spicy ketchup stuff) and a bottle of budweiser. Cook on low 24 hours.

Awesome. Personally I like mashed potatoes with it but feel free to just make sandwiches. Very tender. BTW I use heavy whipping cream instead of milk in my potatoes.

Uh woodworking?? Oh yeah.......recently I bought the Makita ION 18volt compact drill. It's awesome and I highly recomend it. Very easy to handle which was important to me since when I got blown up and injured it left my hands with a grip that's not as wide as before.

Rob Noble
12-21-2008, 4:13 PM
If you think its ice they why not try either throwing an electric heater in the cleanout door, or lighting a small kindling wood fire in the cleanout. It would never be enough fire to start a chimney fire as the creosote has to be liquid to burn. You would melt the ice blockage and if nothing else it would fall onto the kindling fire and put it out.

We have burned walnut in our stove before and while its not great, we also run our fire very hot and at least once a day let it really rip, this will usually clear out most creosote buildup. Low and slow is where your creosote buildup come from. We do that all night, so in the morning we let-er-rip. This would likely not be advisable if your chimney is in the shape you make it sound like.

Mark

LOL, awesome. I love the "let-er-rip" and burn it out comment. I didn't start a fire in it because I wasn't aware it had to be liquified to burn. I think it's in fair shape bro......im just a pessimist.

I just picked up a load of locust and hedge.........that should do the trick.

Steve Clardy
12-21-2008, 4:30 PM
Don't burn all hedge at the same time. ;)
Mix a chunk or 2 with other wood.

Talk about a hot fire, hedge will do it.

Don't have any carpet close, due to the sparks from hedge.

Rob Noble
12-21-2008, 4:34 PM
BTW the hair dryer idea wasn't some brilliant idea I just pulled out of my ....

Sometime ago I built a charcoal fired furnace to melt aluminum and used a hose and hair dryer for extra air. Very cool.

You might want to check out lidsaysbooks.com if you like that kind of stuff. Don't recall if that's the correct web addy but if you look up David Gingery you will run into. All kinds of cool stuff.......well worth your time. Yes, I was going to build the metal lathe but never got around to it. I simply don't have that kind of time. Unfortuneately. However learinging to bust apart aluminum lawnmower engines and making ingots and learning how to make molds is very cool.

Rob Noble
12-21-2008, 4:37 PM
Don't burn all hedge at the same time. ;)
Mix a chunk or 2 with other wood.

Talk about a hot fire, hedge will do it.

Don't have any carpet close, due to the sparks from hedge.

Agreed. I've already been warned and thanks much for the advice. Stove is on a brick floor, sparks could potentially reach a thru run but only with door open so will be careful. The vents have a shield that won't allow sparks to exit when the door is shut unlike the stove I used as a kid.

I just remodeling my living room, took out the old ceiling rafters and vaulted to a height of 24'. Now you know why im using a wood stove. The ole propane furnace just can't keep up. Long story........I have this house planned in phases just like a commercial project. Yes, there's that much work here.

Rob Noble
12-21-2008, 4:52 PM
Well boys the blockage is gone. Time to go do a little sheetmetal work. BTW......that's my trade I am a sheetmetal worker but I joined this site for various wood questions when remodeling + I love woodworking and when Im done with the house that barn I built outback will be my woodshop.

Steve Clardy
12-21-2008, 5:35 PM
Sounds great. Thumbs up :D

Wish I had more hedge around here.

Hafta watch the wife using it though. Woohoo, she can build a fire.

Went in the house a few years back and.......woooo it was hot in there.
I opened a window and got the house temp down to 120 so I could breath :D

Jerry Olexa
12-21-2008, 6:09 PM
Creosote and chimney fires are a nasty thing...Glad you got it worked out.

Joel Goodman
12-21-2008, 8:36 PM
I had a chimney fire in the metal stove pipe of a woodstove that dumb me hadn't cleaned. Sounded like a jet engine taking off -- fortunately it got my attention and I grabbed a fire extinguisher and opened the woodstove door and blasted away. Scared the ____ out of me!

Mike Cutler
12-21-2008, 9:06 PM
Rob

Can you see all the way to the top of the chimney with a mirror in the cleanout port?

I really hate to play "chicken little"here, but if the bottom of the chimney had that much build up, the rest of the chimney up to the cap probably needs to be cleaned.

If your chimney is in the middle of the house, the most likely place for creosote accumulation is where the chimney transition to the attic, from the house.
Now that we know you're a "tin knocker", I 'spect that chimney will be lined soon enough.;)

Rob Noble
12-22-2008, 1:45 PM
Rob

Can you see all the way to the top of the chimney with a mirror in the cleanout port?

I really hate to play "chicken little"here, but if the bottom of the chimney had that much build up, the rest of the chimney up to the cap probably needs to be cleaned.

If your chimney is in the middle of the house, the most likely place for creosote accumulation is where the chimney transition to the attic, from the house.
Now that we know you're a "tin knocker", I 'spect that chimney will be lined soon enough.;)

Hi Mike......Yes. It turned out just being ice. We actually let the stove go out for a couple days because the walnut caked the stove exhaust shut and during that time we had freezing rain. I have a cap but it was very windy and blowed the water in. This newer type stove has ceramic plates and insulation at the top of it........leaving a very narrow opening where it exhausts......it's not wide open or as easily reached like a stove with just a baffle.

This chimney is actually outside the house. Everything seems to be working fine. I'll never burn green anything again, esp. walnut. I can't believe it built up that quick but it did.