Dream Router Table?

[Eduard Nemirovsky]

I am planning to build a "dream" router table:D:confused:. I decided that I will buy the best router table top - BenchDog cast iron, best router lift - BenchDog Pro and will build Deluxe router Station from NW shop. Router - i want to buy PC 3 1/4hp motor or Milwaukee motor with remote. I planning to use this router only for table, I do have others for hand works.
But all these best items in a list - only my opinion base on info I have.
What will be your BEST:D:D router table system:D:D, or what will be your dream system, please?

[Don Bullock]

Edward, that sounds like a great dream to me. I'd love to have the funds to do exactly the same thing with the addition to an Incra LS Positioner Super System.:D

[Keith Outten]

Edward,

If you really want the best your going to have to get your router table from Quality Grinding and Machine. They are new on the horizon but their quality and features are certainly the best in the business IMO.

Visit their FreeStuff thread that is onging right now for more details. They also have a thread concerning their upcoming free standng router table that will be available real quick. The advantages of steel over cast iron are significant, do yourself a favor and consider Quality Grinding.
.

[Jim Becker]

If you really want the best your going to have to get your router table from Quality Grinding and Machine.

Keith beat me to it!! I know that Chris is planning a router table "as we speak". Perhaps you can work with him on that project and be one of the first for the "dream" router table setup... :D

[Barry Richardson]

Nice! but sounds very expensive! BTW, what's the purpose of a remote on a router as you mentioned?

[frank shic]

earlier this year i constructed a four router table station to do raised panel doors and drawer fronts. unfortunately, the router plate for the panel raiser took up all the space that was supposed to be used for the dust port :(

the other mistake i made was building the base entirely out of face frames so that i could have ready access to all the routers. once i start rolling it out of the garage - since dust collection is so poor - everything starts racking and the doors start coming out of alignment.

otherwise it's pretty convenient not having to swap out routers or bits when it comes time to build raised panel doors although lately i've been trying to do them by hand :eek:

[pat warner]

A variation on the theme (http://patwarner.com/router_table.html)that has served me well. Designed from a medium duty shaper.

[Eduard Nemirovsky]

Nice! but sounds very expensive! BTW, what's the purpose of a remote on a router as you mentioned?
Barry, I am talking about Milwaukee 3-1/2 Max HP EVS motor with power and variable speed controls moved down the cord to a remote control box, sell by Woodcraft.
Keith, thank you for reminding me about Quality Grinding and Machine top. I agreed , it is a very good quality. I will think about it too.
:confused:Anybody has a remarks about lift?:confused:

[Bob Genovesi]

My best router table system. :D :D

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/Powermaticshaper.jpg

[Don Bullock]

Edward,

If you really want the best your going to have to get your router table from Quality Grinding and Machine. ...The advantages of steel over cast iron are significant, do yourself a favor and consider Quality Grinding.
.

As usual, someone has a better idea than I do. Keith is correct. I'm looking forward to seeing their new "free standing" table.

[Eduard Nemirovsky]

My best router table system. :D :D

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/Powermaticshaper.jpg
Bob, I did look at molder, but with my limited knowledge of this machine - it is not for me. First, I am hobbyist, second I will be very restricted in bits I can put on and third - speed control for machine restricted and feeding speed for material difficult to manage without power feeder.

[Jim Becker]

Edward, on the lift question, there are several choices that will fit the router you have chosen quite nicely. I happen to be using the BenchDog lift and really like it a lot. Chris would have no problem machining the top to fit, either.

[Eric DeSilva]

Bob, I did look at molder, but with my limited knowledge of this machine - it is not for me.

I'd think about that again... Between the Bench Dog top ($300+), Lift ($300+), and Milwaukee ($500?), you are looking at more than I spent for a nearly new JET 25Cs 3HP shaper *and* a never used Grizzly 2HP power feeder from Craigslist. I've got a bench dog extension on my TS, but having a dedicated shaper makes a world of difference. Its a solid, solid machine, adjustment is easier, and it is capable of spinning big bits. All the little high RPM bits I use I can slap in my Bosch Colt...

For the record, I'm a hobbyist too...

[Sonny Edmonds]

... but I built mine into my TS side table so it shares the out feed of the Table Saw.
I missed the first shipment of the Bench Dog Pro Lifts when they first became available, so mine is from the second production batch.
That is after waiting for 4 months for them to come on the market. :mad:
But true to their word, I got mine as soon as the second run was boxed and shipped. And not have I ever been disappointed for the wait!
Built in the deep run roots of the Norths impeccable machinists who pride themselves on their accuracy and finish. If you appreciate fine machining, you'll love your lift as much as I do mine. ;)

Since I had a Rousseau plate in the hole already, I had to remake the table for the narrower Pro Lift plate. But I also reinforced the table while doing it.
I bought a refurbished PC 7518 router to get my motor for the lift. Since all but one of my hand held are PC as well, collets abound in my shop for 1/2" or 1/4" bits. (Some of the tiny intricate patterns I run only come in 1/4" shafts.)

The 8 TPI Acme screw in the Bench Dog has worked flawlessly. And I have never had or felt I needed to adjust the anti-backlash on it. But it shows their fore thought in going the extra miles to incorporate it into their design.
(Acme threads are the same design you'll find on most fine machinery like metal working lathes and mills, down to the lowly C-clamp and pipe clamps.)

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Pro Lift, nor any other equipment made by Bench Dog, based on my experience with it in my shop. They didn't offer tables or Table Saw wings back when I bought mine, so I built it in myself.

I made a purchase of a Band Saw Mill, thinking it would be a nice addition to my band saw. Well, as soon as I opened the box and pulled it out I knew it wouldn't work for me, nor for its advertised use either. So I shelved it thinking maybe someday I'd find a use for it.
I did.
When I built my fence system for my router station it became the adjusting mechanism for the fence. Also an 8 TPI Acme screw, it allows for the lateral sneak on progressive cuts while the Bench Dog lift allows for the vertical adjustment.

Some pictures for Ya:

My fence set-up: (Old shop)
http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/images/new%20saw/rf1.jpg
__________________________________________________ ____________

Why I made two stations: (Rousseau Plates, two 690 PC's, and a PC Oscillating Spindle Sander. All share the same dust collection box.)
http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/images/new%20saw/rf4.jpg
__________________________________________________ ____________

Great collet access: (This main station has it's own dust collection box and through the fence dust collection as well. Works nearly 100 % of collection. And it does not take a drill motor to raise the collet wide of the table.)
http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/images/new%20saw/rf9.jpg

[Sonny Edmonds]

I'd think about that again... Between the Bench Dog top ($300+), Lift ($300+), and Milwaukee ($500?), you are looking at more than I spent for a nearly new JET 25Cs 3HP shaper *and* a never used Grizzly 2HP power feeder from Craigslist. I've got a bench dog extension on my TS, but having a dedicated shaper makes a world of difference. Its a solid, solid machine, adjustment is easier, and it is capable of spinning big bits. All the little high RPM bits I use I can slap in my Bosch Colt...

For the record, I'm a hobbyist too...

But, a shaper is a shaper. And is limited to the cutting attachments available (and their whore house pricing). :eek:
Where with a Router table set up and a hand full of bits, you (I) can create many different custom patterned moldings.
The limit is imagination, not what the supplier can supply. :rolleyes:

[Eduard Nemirovsky]

Sonny, thank you for pictures and explanation.
Questions regarding stainless steel Quality Grinding and Machine top - if it stainless steel I can not use a magnets for featherboards or jigs - is this correct?

[Joe Jensen]

I'd think about that again... Between the Bench Dog top ($300+), Lift ($300+), and Milwaukee ($500?), you are looking at more than I spent for a nearly new JET 25Cs 3HP shaper *and* a never used Grizzly 2HP power feeder from Craigslist. I've got a bench dog extension on my TS, but having a dedicated shaper makes a world of difference. Its a solid, solid machine, adjustment is easier, and it is capable of spinning big bits. All the little high RPM bits I use I can slap in my Bosch Colt...

For the record, I'm a hobbyist too...

But, a shaper is a shaper. And is limited to the cutting attachments available (and their whore house pricing). :eek:
Where with a Router table set up and a hand full of bits, you (I) can create many different custom patterned moldings.
The limit is imagination, not what the supplier can supply. :rolleyes:

All I can say is that once you have used a shaper with a feeder, router tables are a joke

[David DeCristoforo]

"...once you have used a shaper with a feeder, router tables are a joke..."

Amen. And don't let em tell ya that you can't use router bits in a shaper. Just slow the feed rate a little and they work fine.

[Ron Bontz]

Well once again I have both a shaper and router table. There are some things I prefer to do on a shaper and some on a router table. I must confess I wish I had a power feeder and a PM2700. Shhhh, don't tell Delta I said that.:D My X5 works just fine. If I have learned anything about woodworking, It's that sometimes you can spend more time weighing your options on how you wish to do somthing, than actually doing it. Best of luck on what ever you decide.:)

[Peter Quinn]

Are we really dreaming here, or are we just pretending to dream? I see no need to stick an over grown vacuum cleaner motor in an iron table and call it the 'best'. Not even close IMO. You can get the same level of performance for a lot less money, but if it tickles your fancy, go for it.

If you truly want the BEST router table, there is only one name you need to know; C.R. Onsrud. Everything else is a compromise, period.

Check out http://www.cronsrud.com/900vsx.html, they make smaller ones too if you are willing to settle for a mere 7HP, otherwise go for 10HP and don't look back!

You did say BEST DREAM ROUTER TABLE didn't you?

[Jerry Olexa]

Agree on the Milwaukee HD Router. Have one in one of my tables deidcated for that only...Great, dependable and powerful router.

[Jim Kountz]

All I can say is that once you have used a shaper with a feeder, router tables are a joke

Well unless you want to use a system like an Incra or Jointech or better yet lets see ya plow a dado down the middle of a panel with a shaper!!:eek::eek: I had a shaper, sold it, got a router table. I think at the end of the day it comes down to what you do and how you like to do it. I prefer a router table you prefer a shaper. Doesnt mean either one of is wrong, just different!!

[David DeCristoforo]

" ...lets see ya plow a dado down the middle of a panel with a shaper!!"

OK. You have money to put on this? Can you afford to lose it? Because I will tell you this with certainty. There is virtually nothing you can do with a table mounted router that cannot be done on a shaper with a router collet. And that includes "plow(ing) a dado down the middle of a panel" and/or mounting Incra jigs.

[Joe Jensen]

Well unless you want to use a system like an Incra or Jointech or better yet lets see ya plow a dado down the middle of a panel with a shaper!!:eek::eek: I had a shaper, sold it, got a router table. I think at the end of the day it comes down to what you do and how you like to do it. I prefer a router table you prefer a shaper. Doesnt mean either one of is wrong, just different!!

I would not advocate a shaper only. I've never mounted a router bit in my shaper even though it came with a spindle for router bits. I have a router mounted under a bench too. No lift, and no expensive fence. I just made a simple fence that I clamp to the bench top. I use the router plenty under the bench, I just don't get spending upwards of $1000 on a router setup when you can do all with just mounting the router under a table.

[Peter Quinn]

better yet lets see ya plow a dado down the middle of a panel with a shaper!!:eek::eek:


I agree that shapers and router tables are different, I have both and use them for different things, I don't consider either of them a joke. But when you start spending close to $2000 on a router table I do start to chuckle and question the logic there. Iron tables and iron lifts and precision micro adjust fences and.....well, you wind up with everything a shaper has in a smaller format except real mass and raw power. Each must suit themselves, but if opinions are being solicited mine is keep the router table simple but well made and save your money for wood.

I can think of numerous ways to put a dado in the middle of a panel, at least one option involves a shaper with a router collet.

Can you think of a way to raise a 3/4" panel in one shot flawlessly and repeatedly without sanding, on a router table?

[Sonny Edmonds]

[quote=Sonny Edmonds;997807]

All I can say is that once you have used a shaper with a feeder, router tables are a joke

Oh, well here, let me enlighten you, Joe. I use a nice little Delta Versa Feeder to get the accuracy I need for my runs of moldings.

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/images/new%20saw/vfmountrt.jpg

And on the TS:

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/images/new%20saw/vfmountedsaw.jpg

And probably one you've never thought of before:

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/images/new%20saw/vfmountjointer.jpg

(I have very rarly used the feeder on my jointer. But I can, and it works.)

I think the joke is in your hand, Friend.
It's OK, you can be jealous if you want. :D

Oh, and here's what it cost me on my TS: (Each wing, this one is Port, (left).)

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/images/new%20saw/vfmountholes.jpg

And the hold downs are from the PC 7518's unused base, the handles, with studs in them. :cool:

Given my choice, I made my choice.

[Ken Milhinch]

But, a shaper is a shaper. And is limited to the cutting attachments available (and their whore house pricing). :eek:
Where with a Router table set up and a hand full of bits, you (I) can create many different custom patterned moldings.
The limit is imagination, not what the supplier can supply. :rolleyes:

I sold my router table, bought a Jet Shaper, and still use all my router bits, both 1/4" and 1/2". The shaper can spin any bit that a router can and more. I have heard the arguments about speed, but I have never had an issue with that either.

[frank shic]

it sure would be nice to be able to raise each side of the panel with just one pass on a shaper... my ideal would be the rbi's panel master 3 - three shaper cutters on one arbor that has a 2' x 3' footprint.

http://www.hawkwoodworkingtools.com/panelmaster2.html

[Sonny Edmonds]

Sonny, thank you for pictures and explanation.
Questions regarding stainless steel Quality Grinding and Machine top - if it stainless steel I can not use a magnets for feather boards or jigs - is this correct?

Well, if it is 400 series Stainless Steel, it will be magnetically attracted. 300 series Stainless Steel is not.
I have not found any magnets I would trust for feather board operations. Rather, I use track mounted feather boards with screw down clamping. And that is why I also added a T-track in the side table for that.
So I can have vertical down, and horizontal to the fence feather boards, as well as my power feeder. Lots of options for lots of different set-ups. :)

[Eric DeSilva]

But, a shaper is a shaper. And is limited to the cutting attachments available (and their whore house pricing). :eek:
Where with a Router table set up and a hand full of bits, you (I) can create many different custom patterned moldings.
The limit is imagination, not what the supplier can supply. :rolleyes:

I didn't mean to create a firestorm here, and it seems like people are getting a little bit religious about this. For the record, I have a shaper and a bench dog attachment on my TS with a Triton mounted in it. I think there is an awful lot you can do with a router table. I just choke on spending more on a router table than a high quality shaper. I paid $700 for a nearly new 3HP Jet shaper and $300 for a never used 2HP Grizzly power feeder. That is over $100 less than the OP was talking about for a router table set up. It is something that should be considered.

Yes, Sonny, I'll agree with you that shaper bits are expensive. But, I've actually found a lot of them on closeout sales and most of mine have been not dissimilar in pricing to the Whiteside 1/2" router bits I also buy. My shaper has collets for 1/2" and 1/4" router bits, and also works for that purpose.

The one point I'd disagree with you on is the custom patterns. You can get a shaper cutter that takes knives that can be cut to any pattern you want... One pass, any custom moulding you want, nice clean cuts that require minimal, if any, cleanup. OK, maybe it will cost you $100 to get the knives cut, but two to three high quality router bits will cost you that much as well... Just sayin' I think there are pro's and con's to each set up, but as far as customized details go, I gotta hand that one to the shaper.

Also not sure about your power feeder point as well... Aside from being heavy and a PITA on that score, my attaches to my TS as well. Never thought of trying to stick it on my jointer, but I'll file that one away for reference.

[Aleks Hunter]

I know I'm a little late here, but do want to throw in $.02 worth. I stumbled onthis looking for some new router table ideas, I jsut installed a benchdog wing and lift equipped with a PC 7518 router on my cabinet saw, and I love it! YEs it is not a shaper and feeder which I might have been able to hunt and find over a period off months, but there are several advantages to what I have done. FIrst, as a hobbyist I really do not need industrial machining capability. I do however crave stability from mass the wing added over 100 lbs to my 500 lb table saw. A three HP shaper would necessitate paying an electrician to install another 220 v circuit, the PC runs on 110. It conserves space inthe shop. and for the price difference between a shaper and cutters and electrician vs the router table setup and bits, I can buy a LOT of logs to run through the bandsaw mill. If I made a living making cabinetry I'd likely have opted tor a big old shaper like a northfield, but as a hobbyist, the router table does fine for me, and it only took a few hours to research and source out. Into the cost of inexpensive used equipment you have to figure in the value of your time, which yes, is your own, but is also money.

BTW it is an amazing setup. I got this to replace an older craftsman table and router and the difference is really night and day, but it was not cheap!

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Also look at the Incra fence systems. Allows repeatability and the ability to sneak up on a cut in 1/32" increments. Best thing I've added to my table after the lift.

Cliff

[pat warner]

Done already, with 8 years of service on this one (http://patwarner.com/router_table.html). Would not make many changes on a replacement.