Kevlar Woodworking Apron

[Chuck Schultz]

Last night I was talking to a guy at dinner about a friend of his who owns a cabinet shop. Long story short, after a horrific kickback incident on the table saw, he and his workers now all wear kevlar work aprons. These are supposed to prevent any flying wood scraps or pieces from puncturing the apron and ultimately the guy wearing it.

Do ya'll have any experience with such a safety item and would you know where to find one?

[Myk Rian]

Haven't used one myself, but just Google for Kevlar work apron to find some.

[Chris Padilla]

Well, after watching a few shows on TV regarding bullet-proof vests, they sure don't look like the most comfortable things to wear. The "kevlar piece" is like a pad on a football uniform: it gets slipped into various pockets for protection (chest plate, for example).

I'd suggest taking steps to learn about exactly the hows/whys of TS kickback and ways to prevent them.

Number one on the list is probably a splitter or riving knife.

Number two on MY list would be to rip most lumber on a bandsaw which typically won't kickback wood at you simply due to how the blade moves.

Number 3 might be using other anti-kickback devices like board buddies.

Number 4 could be a blade guard which might help deflect potential kickback although certainly not designed to.

Number 5 would be to carefully inspect any solid lumber you plan to cut but even then, you may have no clue why it moved liked it did when you started cutting it.

[Myk Rian]

The aprons of which he asks are not pads. They are aprons like you would wear in the shop.
http://www.westernsafety.com/chicagoprotective/cppg30-550ktw.jpg

[Thomas Knighton]

Well, after watching a few shows on TV regarding bullet-proof vests, they sure don't look like the most comfortable things to wear. The "kevlar piece" is like a pad on a football uniform: it gets slipped into various pockets for protection (chest plate, for example).

Actually Chris, I think what you're thinking of as the kevlar is actually something else. Current body armor consists of plates that are basically ceramic and take the round. These plates have to be able to be removed and replaced since a round pretty well booger's them up.

Kevlar is really just a type of fiber weave that is resistant to punctures. The body armor it's used in is typically the smaller, lighter version worn by cops on the street and others who are looking for something to wear under clothing. It's also used in a whole host of other stuff and can actually be fairly comfortable from what I understand (the vests, not so much...I'm told they're pretty hot ;)).

Tom

[Chip Lindley]

After my own incident at the shaper, where a raised panel shattered and shards of oak narrowly missed my torso, I begged an obsolete kevlar vest from my policeman brother in law. It protects the torso as intended, along with a lexan face shield. I feel much more secure now. I had my wake up call!!

[John Sanford]

Chris,

Kevlar aprons are quite doable. You can get Kevlar jeans, which are marketed to motorcyclists for their abrasion/puncture resistance, handy when one takes an unplanned slide across the asphalt. There are also Kevlar reinforced gloves out there, and numerous other uses.

Seems to me a Kevlar apron would be a fine idea.

[Eric DeSilva]

You can get Kevlar jeans, which are marketed to motorcyclists for their abrasion/puncture resistance, handy when one takes an unplanned slide across the asphalt.

Isn't Kevlar pretty slippery? I just have this mental picture of a biker shooting down the road like a greased pig, sans bike, waving his hands around... Sort of like skiers who fall down at the top of the Canadian bowls and go sliding all the way down to the bottom...

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Thomas and John. I was thinking of those ceramic plates for some odd reason. :) What is the material they make those "chainsaw safety chaps/aprons" out of? It is supposed to snarl all up in the chainsaw blade thus stopping it.

I guess the Kevlar would keep stuff from penetrating a body but I think there could still be bruising and even broken bones??

[Chuck Tringo]

That's not completely true....having a set of body armor in the garage due to my occupation, current body armor is a composite of both... in the military we wear a cloth vest, neck guard, groin guard and shoulder/upper arm guards that all have kevlar inserts. In addition there are 2 ceramic plates that go in the front and back. Speaking from experience, if the kevlar has any thickness at all, it will be quite heavy, as body armor without the plates and only the front/rear/side kevlar is still pushing 20-25 pounds. A large apron like the one pictured below would definately weigh around that or more...not my idea of comfortable. Just a soldier's 2 cents


Actually Chris, I think what you're thinking of as the kevlar is actually something else. Current body armor consists of plates that are basically ceramic and take the round. These plates have to be able to be removed and replaced since a round pretty well booger's them up.

Kevlar is really just a type of fiber weave that is resistant to punctures. The body armor it's used in is typically the smaller, lighter version worn by cops on the street and others who are looking for something to wear under clothing. It's also used in a whole host of other stuff and can actually be fairly comfortable from what I understand (the vests, not so much...I'm told they're pretty hot ;)).

Tom

[Chuck Schultz]

Here's one that I did find.

http://www.safetysolutions.com/retail/safety_ppe_itemdetail.asp?itemnum=172000202436

Obviously though, it's hard to tell the quality of something just by the picture on the internet.

[Andy Pratt]

I would make sure to look at the details of the material before buying. Certain products marketed as containing kevlar (and they do contain it), have virtually no resistance to penetrations. For example, many types of gloves and socks advertise that they are "kevlar" "kevlar reinforced" etc. All this usually means is that there is a trace amount of kevlar material woven into the fabric. It seems to help with abrasion (longer lasting material) and gives some marginal protection from slashing sorts of cuts, but a leather work glove would almost certainly give better protection in my opinion.

Then there are actual kevlar products, rated to various industry specifications. These are thicker, more expensive and can get heavy. Bulletproof vests are designed to stop the blunt impact of relatively flat-faced handgun ammunition, which does not necessarily translate to protection from a stab from a pointed instrument. There have been instances of police officers being stabbed through a vest with a sharp knife (not slashed through). There are specific vests marketed as "stab resistant kevlar" that would be much more appropriate for a woodworking application in my opinion. The positive side is that these vests do not need to be as thick, and are lighter as a result. If you were only protecting the chest-groin area on a shop apron you could probably keep the material weight down to around 5 lbs. Many quality bullet proof vests weigh less than 10lbs, and that's for double sided protection.

Hope this is helpful,
Andy

[Thomas Knighton]

That's not completely true....having a set of body armor in the garage due to my occupation, current body armor is a composite of both... in the military we wear a cloth vest, neck guard, groin guard and shoulder/upper arm guards that all have kevlar inserts. In addition there are 2 ceramic plates that go in the front and back. Speaking from experience, if the kevlar has any thickness at all, it will be quite heavy, as body armor without the plates and only the front/rear/side kevlar is still pushing 20-25 pounds. A large apron like the one pictured below would definately weigh around that or more...not my idea of comfortable. Just a soldier's 2 cents


Fair enough. I was trying to be a bit simplistic in regards to the plates not being kevlar, and that kevlar by itself isn't so much of the issue. The Level IV armor you currently wear is definitely a different category.

FWIW, I work with IPE for the DoD, so I've seen and handled plenty, but was trying to condense it down in regards to the plates primarily (obviously, you're familiar with it in much more intimate ways than I am ;)). I personally imagined the apron as being only a couple of layers thick. The picture didn't open up for me, but even afterwards I wouldn't see the apron pushing the weights of your IPE.

Of course, without handling one, we have nothing to go on except our best guesses about what the apron actually is or isn't ;)

Tom

Edited to add: For the record, I did misspeak when I said current armor was made up of the plates. You're completely correct that kevlar is still part of the equation. I was trying (poorly) to address Chris' comments about the plates being kevlar and blew it.

[Ben Davis]

That's not completely true....having a set of body armor in the garage due to my occupation, current body armor is a composite of both... in the military we wear a cloth vest, neck guard, groin guard and shoulder/upper arm guards that all have kevlar inserts. In addition there are 2 ceramic plates that go in the front and back. Speaking from experience, if the kevlar has any thickness at all, it will be quite heavy, as body armor without the plates and only the front/rear/side kevlar is still pushing 20-25 pounds. A large apron like the one pictured below would definately weigh around that or more...not my idea of comfortable. Just a soldier's 2 cents
Chuck's right on the money. They're called SAPI plates and I hate them.

[Thomas Knighton]

I hate just handeling the blasted things. I don't like anything we have to be that careful with ;)

Tom

[Dave Lehnert]

for what it's worth, About 20 years ago when training as a police officer we were told that Kevlar would stop a bullet but do nothing for a knife stab.
Not sure how it would help in woodworking. I know I use a Kevlar glove doing woodcarving. It will keep me safe from a slicing action but I still can stab my had.

[John Schreiber]

Usually kickback is a fairly blunt item coming toward you at a relatively moderate speed. That is so different from a bullet that I don't think there would be much relevance to that kind of protection. I think if you were serious about the approach, you might go with something more like a riot control vest and a full face helmet designed to minimize blunt force injuries.

[Chip Lindley]

Lets let *Myth Busters* decide!! They have what it takes to decide if Kevlar is worth it in the wood shop !!!! I TRUST those guys! Probably much more fun than a (UL) testing report Too!

[Chuck Tringo]

Heh, good to see im not the only one having to deal with crapi plates :D I do understand that kevlar can be in different thicknesses as well so the apron could be thinner or 'impregnated' etc., but from what we are told our kevlar cannot stop a 5.56 round (M16) it is meant to protect mostly from shrapnel from explosions....that being said, anything thinner than what we have (between 1/4 and 3/8 of an inch if im correct) would not do a whole lot to help against kickback. Also realize this, as any cop or soldier who has been shot with a vest on would gladly tell you...just because it doesnt pierce the skin, the projectile will still likely knock you on your arse as well as take the wind out of you. To me, it doesnt seem like a good trade off of needed weight for realistic protection not to mention price...im sure these aint cheap.

I think a better safety measure would be to change the way you rip if you feel you need one....when i do rip on the TS I ALWAYS make sure the splitter is in place...for non repetetive rips I use either my track saw or my band saw with greatly reduces/eliminates the chance of KB....not to mention the loot saved on the apron could likely buy me a new tool.

CT

[Chuck Tringo]

Where you at Ben ? Sounds like Lejune....I was right down the road from you at Bragg for 11 years :)


Chuck's right on the money. They're called SAPI plates and I hate them.

[Thomas Knighton]

but from what we are told our kevlar cannot stop a 5.56 round (M16) it is meant to protect mostly from shrapnel from explosions...

Hence the SAPI plates being there. ;) Oh how I wish kevlar would defend against 7.62x39 sufficiently.


...that being said, anything thinner than what we have (between 1/4 and 3/8 of an inch if im correct) would not do a whole lot to help against kickback.

Probably. Frankly, having never been the victim of kickback, I'll have to take your word for it. Like you said, all it would protect you from is the puncture. It'll still hurt like heck if it hits you hard enough. It ain't exactly padding.



I think a better safety measure would be to change the way you rip if you feel you need one....when i do rip on the TS I ALWAYS make sure the splitter is in place...for non repetetive rips I use either my track saw or my band saw with greatly reduces/eliminates the chance of KB....not to mention the loot saved on the apron could likely buy me a new tool.

CT

And on this we are in total agreement. Preventing kickback is by far the best way to not get hurt by it ;)

Tom

[Joe Chritz]

Kevlar isn't puncture resistant unless it is specifically designed and reinforced to be so.

Essentially it works because the fibers are very thin and very strong so it sorta "catches" whatever hits the fibers. If the item is small enough to seperate the fibers or sharp enough to cut them it doesn't do a lot of good.

For example, a Kevlar vest will stop a .357 round at point blank, but you can stick a knife right through it. It will help with non-direct impacts and is a heck of a lot better than a T-shirt.

There have been a lot of saves from Motor vehicle accidents where the vest has helped with impact. However, a street level soft vest is really thick compared to an apron. The kickback that got me a couple years ago was mostly blunt force trauma and a thin apron wouldn't have helped a lot.

A real vest isn't overly comfy (I have about 12 years of where one nearly daily) but not to bad once you get used to it. It is a whole lot more comfy than a 9mm, however.

Joe

[Rob Luter]

I use old school safety methods. Paranoia, a healthy respect for all things sharp, a splitter, anti kickback grippers, and a thick leather shop apron.

So far so good (knocking on wood as I type this).

[Jeff Duncan]

I think Rob's got the right idea, leather shop apron. Been around a heck of a lot longer than Kevlar, and my guess is will work a whole lot better in most applications. Unless of course someone comes into your shop and shoots you while your working:eek:
Your not going to get any wood shards penetrating a leather shop apron.
Nor will a slipped chisel or other sharp instrument easily penetrate the thick hides they're made of.
good luck,
JeffD

[Nelson Bradley]

Another soldier checking in. Kevlar will stop objects flying at a high rate of speed. Knives and other piercing objects can cut kevlar because they aren't transfering energy quick enough allowing the device to break fibers. Long story short, Kevlar could protect from a kickback by preventing skin from being pierced, but you could still end up with broken ribs.

With that said, I've never really considered wearing my body armor to run my table saw. It's hot, heavy and uncomfortable even without the SAPI plates. Instead I use my spliter, push blocks, feather boards etc. The only kickback I've had was for doing something pretty stupid.

[Nelson Bradley]

Hence the SAPI plates being there. ;) Oh how I wish kevlar would defend against 7.62x39 sufficiently.
Tom


Off topic, but the improved SAPI plates will hold up against 7.62x54 AP, but the little bullets aren't the ones that really worry me.

[David Keller NC]

"It seems to help with abrasion (longer lasting material) and gives some marginal protection from slashing sorts of cuts, but a leather work glove would almost certainly give better protection in my opinion. "

Indeed. While a thick leather apron isn't going to stop a bullet, it will give quite a lot of protection from being punctured by flying shards of wood. Don't ask me how I know that.:rolleyes:

[Thomas Knighton]

Off topic, but the improved SAPI plates will hold up against 7.62x54 AP, but the little bullets aren't the ones that really worry me.

I can't say that I blame ya there. Plenty of other things to really worry about unfortunately ;)


"It seems to help with abrasion (longer lasting material) and gives some marginal protection from slashing sorts of cuts, but a leather work glove would almost certainly give better protection in my opinion. "

Indeed. While a thick leather apron isn't going to stop a bullet, it will give quite a lot of protection from being punctured by flying shards of wood. Don't ask me how I know that.:rolleyes:
I was thinking about a leather apron this morning, wondering how well it worked in that kind of situation. I'd imagine it wouldn't be TOO uncomfortable either...expect here in Southwest GA in the dead of summer. However, about that time, everything is uncomfortable ;)

Tom