Advice "Stand Alone Router Table" [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Chris W Brown

12-17-2008, 12:56 PM

I need some feed back from you guys that have bought a stand alone router table. We are discussing offering a stand alone top and stand from Quality Grinding. What table size works well (24 X 32), and what features do you wish you had. Would an extra t-slot be a feature that would be useful.

Do you guys like an open stand or a closed cabinet style stand with casters. These are the type of questions I would like to get more information from you guys who deal with these issues in you wood shops.

Thanks,
Chris Brown, Owner
Quality Grinding/ Sawman Customs

Brian Effinger

12-17-2008, 1:10 PM

I'm thinking larger - 27x43 - like the Woodpeckers/Incra versions. Or maybe a smaller table, but an optional add on to accommodate the Incra fences.
As for the base, a closed stand would be nice to keep the chips and dust down, but with an open stand, it could be accessorized with drawers and doors for storage.

Brian

Todd Crawford

12-17-2008, 1:30 PM

I would be interested in a similar size as Brian suggested. I can't think of a time when I have especially needed an extra t-slot, but can't imagining an extra slot being a bad idea either. Something that would accept a quality fence and dust control would obviously be great. I prefer a table that would provide storage so however you coulf make that work would be great. Shop space is a premium so having a table that could possiblely used as infeed/outfeed support would be great for me.

Greg Hines, MD

12-17-2008, 1:41 PM

An enclosed base will definitely help with both storage of bits and other gear, as well as cut down on both dust and noise. The main thing with a sealed up cabinet being to have a provision for adequate airfllow to the router so that your dust collection does not starve the area.

As to the size of your table, that is a choice you need to make based on your shop. Generally speaking, the bigger the better, up to a point. My home made table is 26x30, or thereabouts, and it does fine for me. If you are wanting a Jointech or Incra positioner, take that into account, and offset your router to one side or the other.

Doc

Chip Lindley

12-17-2008, 2:10 PM

My ol' Powermatic 26 shaper has a 28x30 table w/wing. How dare mere router users deserve a larger table than a full fledged shaper?? *grinz* That seems plenty large, but with such an array of funky fences and fixtures to be attached to router tables, they may crave larger. How bout a sliding table while we're at it! If you build it they will come!!

As for the base, it will be hard to please more than a few router users. They are a fickle lot! Just offer a basic open stand and let users fill in the blanks as they may.

Randy Rose

12-17-2008, 2:23 PM

How about a top that is rigid/stiff enough not to sag over time.
I have a RT 1000 SE table with a 1.5" top combined with a 3hp Hitachi router and it would have benefitted from some sort of internal support.

Matt Benton

12-17-2008, 2:27 PM

Along the lines of what Chip said, I think a table that could be customized to the user's preferred fence system would be very desirable...

Myk Rian

12-17-2008, 2:51 PM

As to the size of your table, that is a choice you need to make based on your shop.
They want to make a table to sell to others. It's not something for their own shop.

Chris;
24x36 is the size of the last one I made, and that is my 4th. I think anything larger is overkill, or it would hold 2 routers.
I built it with a closed cabinet upper, open shelf lower. A hole in the side makes it easy to attach a hose for the fence. I have a 4" connection for the DC.
A miter track is nice for miter gauges and sleds.
T-track for holding finger boards. I have T-tracks for my fences also, but that is personal preference. A fence with C-clamps works good also.

Chris W Brown

12-17-2008, 3:55 PM

Thanks for the input!! So a table about 24 X 32, with a t-slot. Table needs to accommodate the varies inserts(woodpecker, JessEm etc.) and the many fence systems. It sounds like the fence set up is more a personal preference.

We can build a table that will not sag and hold up over time, but might be tough to build a table to fit most fence systems. Do most of the fence systems attached to the side of the table?

Thanks,
Chris

Myk Rian

12-17-2008, 4:11 PM

There has to be an overhang to use the C-clamps.

Brian Effinger

12-17-2008, 4:20 PM

We can build a table that will not sag and hold up over time, but might be tough to build a table to fit most fence systems. Do most of the fence systems attached to the side of the table?

Thanks,
Chris

The Incra fence and I think some of the similar fences attach to the top.

http://www.incra.com/images/rtf_combo1.jpg

That is why it may be better to have holes in the side to add some sort of extension on to the table to allow for the depth of these fences. I think even the fences for the smaller tables attach to the top of the table, and some of them with t-slots and nuts.

Brian

Steven DeMars

12-17-2008, 4:22 PM

1st. I do or have not ever owned a router table. I want one and would definitely want a metal top.

My thought strictly from a look at the current market.

Rockler / BenchDog are now one and the same. They offer a cast iron table top that will work with an excellent array of lifts, plates & fences, “they offer”.

If I were QG I would some how pair up with the people at WoodPeck since they offer what is considered by many the GOLD standard for lifts, plates & fences.

The only reason I have not bought a cast iron table from Rockler is there no longer is anyone with knowledge to speak too. They bought BenchDog, turned off their phones and you can only talk to "Suzy" who's help/knowledge ends with a catalog number.

You now have the typical scenario of a large vendor buying up a specialized company with technical assistance and neutering them to a "catalog" company with sweet voices on the phone.

QG, I would find out what the users want that desire the "ultimate" router table and head that way. If you can put together a cast iron/steel top, Woodpeck lift, & Incra Fence system, you have your first customer.

Bench Dog / Rockler purposely changed their standard plate opening so it would not work with WoodPeck.

Also, don’t get me wrong, I like Rockler, they are a great supplier . . . they just need to stay in that business. Not killing a company that provided excellent customer service and technical support.

Please feel free to dissect, insult, correct, etc . . .

I’m just ticked that there is no longer one stop shopping available for the ultimate router table from KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE in their customer service department.

I tried to accomplish this, and no matter what I asked, they would not forward me to anyone beyond the young lady that was their BENCH DOG SPECIALIST. I guess she successfully could cross over part numbers between the (2) companies. That was her specialty . . . .

Steve

Paul Joynes

12-17-2008, 5:46 PM

Chris

The fence system that I use (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=42932&cat=1,43053,43885) requires that you be able to clamp to the edge of the table. I have allowed for this on my shop built table by adding 1x1x1/4 cold rolled angle around the perimeter. I assume that this feature could easily be added into any top that you design. The main reason that I have not bought the BenchDog CI top is because it doesn't have this lip.

In addition, I use the BenchDog ProLift (Max) coupled with a Porter Cable 7518. This combination is HEAVY (40-50 lbs). Make your table top stout.

Greg Hines, MD

12-17-2008, 6:18 PM

Sorry for the earlier post, I misread what you were doing.

The size sounds good to me, but it would be nice to have some accommodation for putting sides onto an open base. Perhaps U-channels in the uprights, or flanges for bolting sides on?

It would also be nice to have either a centered or offset router plate or lift, so that an Incra or Jointech fence system could be used.

Doc

Eric Gustafson

12-17-2008, 6:23 PM

Can I order one now? :rolleyes:

Stephen Edwards

12-17-2008, 6:33 PM

Perhaps you should consider offering a table top with options. It might even be helpful to you if you were to conduct a poll here at the Creek. My guess, based on observations and having been in many woodworking shops, is that more people use the standard 24ish X 32ish tops with the with the fence and miter track running in the 32ish direction.

Having said that, I don't think that you're going to find a "one size fits all" solution for RT users. So, perhaps offering a standard sized top with the option of having the plate mounted for the Incra style fence system or the option of having the plate mounted for fences that run parallel with the 32ish direction.

Also, many woodworker prefer to build their own fences. A pair of T-tracks would be useful for shop made fences like this one built by fellow Creeker Jeff Bratt:

http://home.san.rr.com/jeffnann/WoodWorking/Shop/RouterTable/2WithTop.jpg

Finally, it might also be wise to offer more than one size cutout for the plate and or lift. Seems to me that most of the lifts plates now are the 9 1/4 X 11 3/4. I may be wrong about that but that's what I've noticed in my recent research.

Best wishes on your project!

Chris W Brown

12-17-2008, 9:12 PM

Steve thanks for the your input. I did not know that Rockler bought benchdog. I agree with you 100% on the customer service issues. I'm surprised you were able to talk with someone in the USA. I am going to built the ultimate router table plus we are going to service our customers. Steve I'm going to put you name on the list.

Chris

Chris W Brown

12-17-2008, 9:17 PM

Eric I will put you down for one today. You need it by Christmas Day? Maybe I can deliver it myself to AZ, play a few rounds of golf.

Chris

Chris W Brown

12-17-2008, 9:35 PM

From the responses that I read today will definitely be incorporate into this project. This is what I'm thinking at this point-

1. Table Size 24 X 24
2. Two Ext wings 12 X 24(total surface 24 X 48)
3. Insert for Woodpeck, JessEm(9.25 X 11.75)
4. Ability to mount Incra and Jointech fences
5. T-slots in table(parallel w/32" dim)
6. T-slots for home made fence
7. Heavy Duty cabinet or stand

The ultimate router table list from you input.

I'm still unsure how the Incra and Jointech fence mounts to the table. How do the fences mount to the top. I guess I need to buy one myself.

Chris
Quality Grinding

Jim Becker

12-17-2008, 9:43 PM

Chris, the two router tables I built in the shop were sized at 24" x 36" and I really liked that. I happen to have the Bench Dog cast iron setup now and while I haven't suffered with the slightly narrower width, the feel is a little different.

For me, I like the router position centered for a stand-alone table, but I also prefer a "traditional" fence setup. Others who prefer an Incra type fence system will want the router position closer to the short end and rotated. I do like the Bench Dog method of mounting the fence...there are no tee-slots to catch on things...just a simple slot for the bolts to ride in for adjustment.

I never use the tee/miter slot and even left it off my last shop-built top. The one on my Bench Dog top actually gets in my way in that respect. (I use magnetic feather boards on the metal table)

I will always prefer a closed cabinet under the top because of dust and chip collection. And it should have a 4" port, not a little 2.5" port since one connection should be able to service both the cabinet and the fence; whether the latter is handled via a hose or a hole in the top.

Brian Effinger

12-17-2008, 10:01 PM

I'm still unsure how the Incra and Jointech fence mounts to the table. How do the fences mount to the top. I guess I need to buy one myself.

Chris
Quality Grinding

Check out the manual for the Incra here: http://www.incra.com/manuals/ls_manual.pdf

It gives the dimensions for the mounting holes as well as how far back the base mounts. I hope it helps.

Brian

Steven DeMars

12-17-2008, 10:12 PM

From the responses that I read today will definitely be incorporate into this project. This is what I'm thinking at this point-

1. Table Size 24 X 24
I think 24 X 36 like Jim suggested would be more appealing. While building wings that can be trued is probaly simple for you guys, I think the one piece TRUE would be the ticket.
2. Two Ext wings 12 X 24(total surface 24 X 48)
See #1 reply
3. Insert for Woodpeck, JessEm(9.25 X 11.75)
JessEm is 8.25 X 11.75, also the Rockler/BenchDog standard
4. Ability to mount Incra and Jointech fences
Nice, note Jim's placement comments
5. T-slots in table(parallel w/32" dim)
Nice - true milled T-Slot would not cause the problems Jim mentioned. Always put a filler strip in.
6. T-slots for home made fence
Nice - not sure what they would be . . . will custom/options be avaiable in this area?
7. Heavy Duty cabinet or stand
Nice, or at least specified mounting points so customer can build his own. Some of these guys have cabinets in there shop nicer than furniture in very fine homes. And they are WOODWORKERS . .
The ultimate router table list from your input.

I'm still unsure how the Incra and Jointech fence mounts to the table. How do the fences mount to the top. I guess I need to buy one myself.
I bet you can find someone in your area with one that would love to let you look at it. . . . Also download/request the manual.Any chance that one of the vendors like WoodPeck would help. Sure help his product sell.

Chris
Quality Grinding

Actually the more I read and research, I think you may have a good entry into this market with a plain "flat" table (size option)with an insert hole and a sturdy 1/4" thick ledge all around to clamp too. Thats where I'm looking now . . .
Hope my comment are a help . . . . Please keep up to date . . .

Steve

Chris W Brown

12-17-2008, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Chris W Brown http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=994637#post994637)
From the responses that I read today will definitely be incorporate into this project. This is what I'm thinking at this point-

1. Table Size 24 X 24
I think 24 X 36 like Jim suggested would be more appealing. While building wings that can be trued is probaly simple for you guys, I think the one piece TRUE would be the ticket.
The reason for a 24 X 24 with ext wings is the weight. The 24 x 36 will weight around 130lbs.
2. Two Ext wings 12 X 24(total surface 24 X 48)
See #1 reply
3. Insert for Woodpeck, JessEm(9.25 X 11.75)
JessEm is 8.25 X 11.75, also the Rockler/BenchDog standard
JessEm does offer two sizes 9.25 and 8.25 for some reason.
4. Ability to mount Incra and Jointech fences
Nice, note Jim's placement comments
5. T-slots in table(parallel w/32" dim)
Nice - true milled T-Slot would not cause the problems Jim mentioned. Always put a filler strip in.
6. T-slots for home made fence
Nice - not sure what they would be . . . will custom/options be avaiable in this area?
Home made fences need either t-slots or mill thru slots to secure the fence.
7. Heavy Duty cabinet or stand
Nice, or at least specified mounting points so customer can build his own. Some of these guys have cabinets in there shop nicer than furniture in very fine homes. And they are WOODWORKERS . .
I agree some of the cabinets are very well constructed.
The ultimate router table list from your input.

I'm still unsure how the Incra and Jointech fence mounts to the table. How do the fences mount to the top. I guess I need to buy one myself.
I bet you can find someone in your area with one that would love to let you look at it. . . . Also download/request the manual.Any chance that one of the vendors like WoodPeck would help. Sure help his product sell.

Chris
Quality Grinding

Actually the more I read and research, I think you may have a good entry into this market with a plain "flat" table (size option)with an insert hole and a sturdy 1/4" thick ledge all around to clamp too. Thats where I'm
looking now . . .
Hope my comment are a help . . . . Please keep up to date . . .

Steve

Chris W Brown

12-17-2008, 11:22 PM

Ron Bontz

12-18-2008, 12:22 AM

Just 50 cents worth. Having a fence that remained parallel with the miter slot over the full range of movement would be a definite plus. I am quite fond of my shaper and router table but I hate having to get out the square during set up. I made adjustable cam type guides for my router table for that reason. The combo t-track is a waste in my view. I haven't used mine in years. I use the t-slot in my sub fences. A standard miter slot is most useful. A hinged top wing or bolt on would be a nice option allowing a Jointech type fence to be used. Flanges on the underside for attaching a cabinet would be nice as well. Hmmm I guess I don't want much:D

John Sanford

12-18-2008, 1:26 AM

For size, I think the 24 x 36 is about perfect. If you offer a base, make it tall. I have my router table installed as a tablesaw wing, and after working with the Bosch Router Table (on the Bosch stand), I can only say that higher is better. Also, make sure that the user can clamp around the side. One of the things I hate about the stock cast iron drill press and bandsaw tables is the webs underneath, rather than a smooth surface that makes clamping easy.

Jim Becker

12-18-2008, 9:04 AM

Jim did you feel like the slots in the table to secure the fence are precision enough for your application. We have a benchdog ext at the shop and I thought it might be tough to get your fence squared up with the router bit. Maybe thats the machinist coming out in me.

No issue since "square" is relative to only the bit for me...I don't use the miter slot, even for coping where I utilize a simple sled that rides along the fence. For fence to bit adjustment, I just get it close using scrap material when there is a bearing available or eyeball it when not...and then do a few test cuts on scrap to fine tune the fence to cutter alignment as well as cutter height. With my previous table, I was just using some small F-clamps which in effect, was about the same as the Bench Dog method.

BTW, my setup can be seen in this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=54500&highlight=Bench)...a little different adaptation than most! Not exactly stand-alone anymore, but works for space in my shop at present. Had you been "around" at the time, I think that we could have come up with a better solution that moved the entire router/lift closer to the slider for the "poor man's saw/shaper combo"... :)

Justin Leiwig

12-18-2008, 10:23 AM

Here's my take on it. Why not offer your own fence with the table? A nice blanchard ground fence like found on a jointer with the option to add sacraficial wooden fences to the front for other operations. Design it so that the fence could be used with something like the Incra/Jointech positioner or without. Those who didn't want to add the positioner could just use racheting hold downs through slots milled in the table top.

I agree with the standard top size and additional wings available. Like a tablesaw you can customize the wings to your suiting.

Definitely keep the miter track. I like that feature on a router table.

Chip Lindley

12-18-2008, 11:00 AM

A Ton of different opinions within 24hrs!!

May I suggest that the use of C-clamps on a 21st Century router table is considered grounds for an appearance on *Jerry Springer*!! A steel top can be drilled and tapped where needed for ultra secure clamping of a fence. I, for one, do not trust slippery C-clamps in a vibrating metal to metal situation.

HighTech is IN guys! With fences micrometer-adjustable to .001", we need high tech solutions for securing all the *stuff* marketed to router table enthusiasts now. There are some neat cam clamps in the Grainger catalog. If those are too mundane, we might consider *clampless* using vacuum technology! *wink*
Merry Christmas to All !!

Doug Shepard

12-18-2008, 11:21 AM

Not sure I've seen this mentioned but the JessEm and Woodpecker aren't the same thickness. JessEm=1/4" and Woodpecker=3/8" so even though the openings are the same, you'd have to make 2 different versions or make an insert ring for the JessEm.

I'm still muddling about trying to figure out the geometry of the extension I want to get, but also wondered about this: Is it feasible to put tapped holes (maybe 1/4-20) not through holes but underneath spaced at regular intervals or strategic points? I wouldn't have the DP swing to be able to do this myself and wouldn't want to try it without a DP. But I'd like to be able put a dust enclosure around the router and would like to have some attachment points available where I could attach something with machine screws. The same might be nice for attaching a bracket for a power switch. At the moment I couldn't begin to specify where I'd want those, but if there were existing ones every 4", 6", or something I'm sure I could work with that.

Chris W Brown

12-18-2008, 11:23 PM

Doug what are the tapped holes underneath the table used for? Would this be to attach a dust collection system.

The switch idea is a good suggestion!!

Thanks,
Chris

Chris W Brown

12-18-2008, 11:35 PM

I would like to think everyone for their input in the router table and the stand. I made a trip to Powermatic today in LaVergne TN which is about three hours from our shop so I had plenty of time to think about the suggestions you guys have mentioned. I truly believe we can put together a table and stand that for exceeds what is available on the market today thanks to your help.

I will keep you guys posted on the progress of this project.

Thanks,
Chris

Doug Shepard

12-19-2008, 8:48 AM

Doug what are the tapped holes underneath the table used for? Would this be to attach a dust collection system.

The switch idea is a good suggestion!!

Thanks,
Chris

Chris
Obviously my questions are based on an extension for my TS but I think I'd want the same thing if I were getting a free-standing metal table. I need to get a longer mobile base and build a cabinet under the end to both support the extension as well as get some extra storage space. But in the center portion of that cabinet I'd like to be able to attach a dust cabinet. Probably a shop-made one, but this Woodpecker one works for illustration.
http://www.woodpeck.com/downdraft.html#103
I'm sure I could work with whatever threaded hole spacing the Woodpecker cab would want for attaching but I was just thinking that a half dozen holes surrounding the plate opening with a reasonable offset would give me a place to attach something with machine screws.

Rod Sheridan

12-19-2008, 9:00 AM

I don't have a router table, I use a shaper, however if I were to build myself a router table I would want a couple of features from the shaper;

- a well machined, split fence with micrometer type adjustments, at least 4 inches tall

- the ability to put guard strips between the opening in the fence similar to Aigner guards

- a 4 or 5 inch dust collection port, prefferably 5 since a router produces so much more dust than a shaper

- a hole tapped in the table top to accept a starting pin

I think then you would have many of the good points of a shaper, and eliminate many of the inadequacies of the router table.

Of course after spending money to purchase all of the above, you may as well buy a shaper and get all the benefits.

Regards, Rod.