WorkBench - Where to Build it, House or shop?

[Lyndon Graham]

I accidentally posted this in the general woodworking forum. Here is the repost.

In anticipating what is going to go wrong with my >$1000 endeavor to build my 1st (and last I hope) workbench.

Here is my situation:

(1) My house is HVAC controlled (Heat)
(2) My shop is a barn with no HVAC
(3) I live in OR: rarely gets below freezing, humidity is high, to cold to glue in the barn

When I buy my maple for my 8’x26”x4” workbench, here are my thoughts:

(A) Buy the wood (which the local stores store in a HVAC controlled environment
(B) Store it in my barn for 2 weeks so is absorbs the air moisture and comes to an equilibrium
(C) Dimension the lumber after 2 weeks (joint and plane)
(D) Take to the house where it is warm, and glue it up (the hobby room, aka the family room:(), the next day take it back to the barn.

I want to minimize warping, twist, etc. Thoughts?

[Richard Magbanua]

Why not simplify things to your advantage? Build your bench out of much cheaper materials (Fir or SYP depending on availability) and use the other $800 on weather proofing/heating your barn or making a separate area within or as a nice add-on. I have a pole barn that I use for power tools and a 16'x16' cottage with a/c and heat I have all of my hand tools and workbench in.

It's all personal preference of course, but to me $1,000 is a lot for a shop-made bench when there are so many other tools/toys to buy :rolleyes:

If it helps, I'm almost done with my new bench and I think I've spent under $200 so far. You can browse pictures here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/magbanua/sets/72157610497536990/

Good luck with your endeavor and Merry Christmas!

[Lyndon Graham]

Why not simplify things to your advantage? Build your bench out of much cheaper materials (Fir or SYP depending on availability) and use the other $800 on weather proofing/heating your barn

If it helps, I'm almost done with my new bench and I think I've spent under $200 so far.
!

Very nice. I wish I had a source of Southern Pine. The stuff I can buy at Home Depot does not look near that nice nor is it as stiff.

As far as spending money on heat, we have so few cold days here that I can just use a Carhart jacket. But that durn humidity and rain...

[Richard Magbanua]

"we have so few cold days here that I can just use a Carhart jacket. But that durn humidity and rain..."

Even better! How about a hand tools shop built on to the barn complete with drywall, a dehumidifier, space heater and space for lumber? I love spending other peoples' money!:D

[Alex Shanku]

But that durn humidity and rain...

This is something you are going to deal with as long as you are working with wood.

Do what you said.

Rough your stock, let it acclimate, dimension it to its final size, take it inside, glue it up, take it outside and assemble/whatever else. You will need to flatten the bench either way.

Planning and thinking about the task at hand are critical, but overthinking and going round and round just wastes time and starts to wear on you.

Post some pics as you go.

[Lyndon Graham]

This is something you are going to deal with as long as you are working with wood.



Planning and thinking about the task at hand are critical, but overthinking and going round and round just wastes time and starts to wear on you.

.

Thanks. I am waiting on my Dado blade and vises. They should be here in a week or so. Until then, I have nothing to do but "over think it". :rolleyes:

[Alex Shanku]

I, too, hate that feeling and just milling around in my shop tinkering with no "real" project at hand.

[David Keller NC]

"Thanks. I am waiting on my Dado blade and vises. They should be here in a week or so. Until then, I have nothing to do but "over think it""

I'm going to suggest something different. If you're going to be working in your barn, then build your bench there. If you use Titebond III, you should be able to glue down to about 50 degrees or so. The advantage to this is that your house is probably very dry - by the time you get everything glued up and comes out of the clamps, you might have some dimensional change difficulties when you haul it back out to your barn.

Remember that the most sought-after antique furniture of all time was built in humid, New England conditions (with no air conditioning or central heat!)

[Ben Davis]

I accidentally posted this in the general woodworking forum. Here is the repost.

In anticipating what is going to go wrong with my >$1000 endeavor to build my 1st (and last I hope) workbench.

Here is my situation:

(1) My house is HVAC controlled (Heat)
(2) My shop is a barn with no HVAC
(3) I live in OR: rarely gets below freezing, humidity is high, to cold to glue in the barn

When I buy my maple for my 8’x26”x4” workbench, here are my thoughts:

(A) Buy the wood (which the local stores store in a HVAC controlled environment
(B) Store it in my barn for 2 weeks so is absorbs the air moisture and comes to an equilibrium
(C) Dimension the lumber after 2 weeks (joint and plane)
(D) Take to the house where it is warm, and glue it up (the hobby room, aka the family room:(), the next day take it back to the barn.

I want to minimize warping, twist, etc. Thoughts?
Have you read Schwarz's Workbenches book? I think $1,000 is high and right of where you need to be. There is an outstanding table in the first or second chapter that lists the modulous of elasticity for a large variety of wood. Basically, you're likely to be better finding a decent source for douglas fir than dropping the coin on the maple top. Either way, you need to build something that is useful for your work.

With you stating that this would be your first, and hopefully last bench, This book is one of the few absolutes in the world. It's an absolute read.

-Doc

[Lyndon Graham]

With you stating that this would be your first, and hopefully last bench, This book is one of the few absolutes in the world. It's an absolute read.

-Doc

Bought it, read it (to about page 50 so far).

Rule 1: Overbuild your bench
Rule 2: Overbuild your bench

I don't have it with me, But Southern Pine is the poor mans wood of choice due to the high modulus. But I have to pay $4.5 per board foor up here. The low modulus of fir means more flex. On the other hand, I am going to make it 4" thick.

[Luke Townsley]

I haven't seen your workbench design, but I don't think I would sweat it.

As long as the wood isn't fresh cut (you don't want your tools to rust), just build it. Do be very careful how you orient the grain in the top.

You will get some minor warping within the first few months. Flatten it with a long plane. You will have to do that anyway.

Done.

You might think about using liquid (i.e. Old Brown Glue) hide glue. I am not sure if it works within the parameters you defined, but it might be just the thing for building it in the barn. It should give you a crazy long open time, but you would need to let it dry extra long before messing with it. You might also have to thin it to get it thin enough to spread at the temperatures you described.

Also, don't put so much into this that you are afraid to work on it. That sort of defeats the purpose!

[Ben Davis]

I sure as heck wouldn't pay $4.5/BF for SYP, but there are other excellent alternatives that should be available locally. The point that I took home was that the material used in stick-built houses should be fully considered before choosing a more expensive option (hard maple, beech, etc.). I also noticed there was not a huge difference between hard and soft maple... certainly a difference though.

You hit the nail on the head. This sucker is 4" thick laminated slab. It you can find a no kidding slab of wood, that would be even better. It's not going anywhere anytime soon. Thinner tops are going to spring and possible sag if stretchers or aprons are not added, but not with a 4" thick monster.

[Alan DuBoff]

Thanks. I am waiting on my Dado blade and vises.
That's a good way to bump the cost of your bench up! ;)

You could cut the tenons with a $10 handsaw.:)

[David Keller NC]

Lyndon _ didn't think of this when I first posted to this thread - but in regards to what you'd described with moving the wood for the top from the supplier to the barn, the barn to the house, and then from the house to the barn, I'm reminded of a saying that an old sawyer that used to supply lumber to my Grandfather once said: "Rule #1: Move lumber only once."

That was sage advice, both from the aspect of protecting your back, and the stability of the wood.

Don't worry about the lower modulus of elasticity of Douglas Fir compared to Southern Yellow Pine. Remember that these tests are conducted on knot free wood samples, and knots weaken the stiffness of wood considerably. And it's a rare find to look through a stack of SYP at Lowe's and find a board with no knots at all.

A similar thing applies to Douglas Fir - even where I'm at, where lumber is available in abundance, if someone offered me the choice between some old-growth Douglas Fir and some average SYP, my choice would be the doug fir every single time. Given that you're in the Pacific Northwest, coming up with some huge planks of old-growth doug fir will probably not be all that difficult (hint, hint - check Craig's list!)

[Lyndon Graham]

Given that you're in the Pacific Northwest, coming up with some huge planks of old-growth doug fir will probably not be all that difficult (hint, hint - check Craig's list!)

Fir it is, I am going to the lumber yard today to price it out and will pick it up this Sat

thanks all

[Ben Davis]

Wise choice!! The Douglas Fir will do just great for the bench. No need to get all spendy on the top for now. If you really really want a maple top, just drill out the drawbores and replace the top. I think you'll be just fine with the douglas fir.

[Alan DuBoff]

Bought it, read it (to about page 50 so far).

Rule 1: Overbuild your bench
Rule 2: Overbuild your bench

I don't have it with me, But Southern Pine is the poor mans wood of choice due to the high modulus. But I have to pay $4.5 per board foor up here. The low modulus of fir means more flex. On the other hand, I am going to make it 4" thick.
So, you rented this book from your local library and weren't impressed with it, and took it back. But you bought the book after? Hmmm...sounds like hypocrisy...

[Lyndon Graham]

So, you rented this book from your local library and weren't impressed with it, and took it back. But you bought the book after? Hmmm...sounds like hypocrisy...

I listen to those that walked the path before me; for it is "they" that find the enemy's version of the claymore mine! :D And when "they" walk alive from the mine field, maybe I should follow their path?

Translation: I am new at this. Many said this book is the "Bible". I figured that I missed the message. TRust me, as my inexperienced wobbly feet gain experience and learnings, I will yell BS when I smell it.

[Thomas Knighton]

So, you rented this book from your local library and weren't impressed with it, and took it back. But you bought the book after? Hmmm...sounds like hypocrisy...

Cut the guy some slack. After all, there were plenty of us all but quoting the book to him, so I can't blame him for taking another look ;)

Tom

[Alan DuBoff]

I listen to those that walked the path before me; for it is "they" that find the enemy's version of the claymore mine! :D And when "they" walk alive from the mine field, maybe I should follow their path?

Translation: I am new at this. Many said this book is the "Bible". I figured that I missed the message. TRust me, as my inexperienced wobbly feet gain experience and learnings, I will yell BS when I smell it.
Lyndon,

Actually I can respect you for that! ;)

I think many of us have walked a similar path, and many offer the advice after walking it. A wise man is able to learn also, and you seem to have learned that point about the book.

I love books myself, but have been learning to buy less of them, after a while you get more opinions and it makes decisions difficult sometimes.

Kinda funny watching your shop for lumber, I mean, your in the middle of the forest practically...:D Go wack a tree down and have it slab'd up! ;)

I bought 1200 bf of hard maple for $0.50/bf, mostly shorts, but I got some 6' and 8' lengths, so I used the 6' pieces to build my bench. I would like a longer bench, but couldn't easily fit one in the space, so this worked out perfect. My wife and kids laughed when I came home with 1200 bf of hard maple...didn't surprise them a bit. :rolleyes:

It paid for itself with JUST the bench, it would have cost me about as much to buy hard maple just for the bench as I paid for the entire load of 1200 bf. You may wonder why I would want that much wood, and it's because of the prices I have to pay for it around the area I live. When this runs out I will look for more, or find a tree to slab up and sticker it and dry it. If you have storage in your barn, consider finding a tree, it's a great way to get some quality lumber at a reasonable price.

I also have about 150 bf of Hickory I had bought to make a bench, at $1.75/bf. While the numbers look great for Hickory, to work it is to know and understand it. It is HARD! I like the density of hard maple much better. My 3 favorite woods to work are cherry, hard maple, and walnut, so when the hard maple came up at $0.50/bf, that was a no brainer for me. I still have most of the hickory, I used some on this bench with some purple heart, another species I am not real fond of after working with quite a bit of it. Seems to make good flooring though! ;)

Tom,

Lighten up? I am too honest sometimes...it doesn't please all, all the time.:rolleyes: I call 'em like I see 'em...

[Thomas Knighton]

I didn't say anything about lightening up, I said to cut him some slack. You seemed to have done that, so I'm content ;)

Tom

[Doug Jones from Oregon]

Very nice. I wish I had a source of Southern Pine. The stuff I can buy at Home Depot does not look near that nice nor is it as stiff.

As far as spending money on heat, we have so few cold days here that I can just use a Carhart jacket. But that durn humidity and rain...


Home Depot???? You have are in the area of so many better wood sources there in Oregon... I would suggest you give Hardwood Industries in Tualatin a try...they have some very nice materials avail and reasonable in pricing. And yes, they do sell to us weekend woodworkers.

Hope you are enjoying those rare days of below freezing....I'm not missing living in my trailer in Troutdale this week....

Doug

[Alan DuBoff]

Home Depot???? You have are in the area of so many better wood sources there in Oregon... I would suggest you give Hardwood Industries in Tualatin a try...they have some very nice materials avail and reasonable in pricing. And yes, they do sell to us weekend woodworkers.
When I was up there visiting, Mike Wenzloff took me over to Gilmore, he's got some really nice wood...(seemed like high prices, but REALLY nice stuff).

Didn't see much doug fir over there though...;)

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Gilmer for "regular" wood? Nope.

But the recommended Hardwood Industries is a good place.

The Doug Fir is a decent choice for a bench. If one can get beyond construction grade stuff. And there are options for that (price goes up...).

My recommendation to Lyndon isn't to build his "last bench first." I would recommend building a weekend version and take time with it and think through bench issues in relation to how you use a bench and for what you will tend to make.

Take care, Mike

[David Keller NC]

Lyndon - I'm not sure this chapter is all that relevant to you since it doesn't sound like you're going to make your bench portable, but Chris wrote an auxillary chapter to the Worbenches book on knock-down designs. Since you've bought the book, thought you might want to download this and print it for completeness sake:

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Download+A+New+Chapter+To+The+Workbenches+Book+Fre e.aspx

There are some great ideas in this chapter, and a description of a jig for locating the holes for Veritas bench bolts that also works very well for bed bolts.

[Lyndon Graham]

Home Depot???? You have are in the area of so many better wood sources there in Oregon... I would suggest you give Hardwood Industries in Tualatin a try...they have some very nice materials avail and reasonable in pricing.
Hope you are enjoying those rare days of below freezing....I'm not missing living in my trailer in Troutdale this week....

Doug

Hardwood industries wanted $6.80 per board foot for hard maple 8/4
Crosscuts wanted $5.99

The best deal on D. Fir seems to be at Parr Lumber. It is cheaper than Home Depot or Lowes and they will get it for me Surface Dries as opposed to Green. Anywhere else I am missing?

BTW: I LOVE the cold. I lived in Montana for 5 years. One Jan, it never got above 0 F for the month. My favorite temp in the world is 25 F with a 5 mph wind (just enough wind to let the dogs nose work effectively).

thanks

[Matt Edwards]

I did mine with Doug Fir 4x4's from the big box. Its held up well for me so far after a year of regular abuse. The base is made of SYP doubled up and M&T'd and draw bored.
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8674/0006992vg7.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0006992vg7.jpg)http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8858/shopwallsgf4.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shopwallsgf4.jpg)
This bench was suppose to be a short term starter bench, but is most likely going to be in use much longer. One thing that stuck in my mind when I set out to build a bench after seeing what it was going to cost to do a full blown hard maple master piece, was if I spend 800 bucks on material and make several mistakes on it (not really an IF but a given) would I really be happy with it for a long time in my shop. For me the answer was NOPE. When it was all done, I had 200 bucks in it including the 2 vintage vices, and couldnt be happier with it.

Cheers!
Matt

[Alan DuBoff]

My recommendation to Lyndon isn't to build his "last bench first." I would recommend building a weekend version and take time with it and think through bench issues in relation to how you use a bench and for what you will tend to make.
Not bad advice, IMO. One tip I would like to pass on that I learned when building my bench is the ¨how do you build a bench when you don´t have a bench?¨ dilemma...I found that having a set of these inexpensive stands I got from Sears to be excellent as a base to hold the top, so I could use it to build the base with. If you put these all the way down you will have the metal supports holding the table directly, it is solid. I flipped the top to the flat side. These stands have been very helpful to me in my bench build. You could use a set of saw horses also, just that these are convenient, strong, and easily bought by most folks as Sears is everywhere. I got mine on sale for $19.99 for the pair. They do run them on sale quite often, and a good use of a $20 bill...IMO! :)

I use them often with a piece of wood over them and use it for an assembly table, or working light stuff in the garage.

(linky pic to Sears site)

http://s.sears.com/is/image/Sears/00922293000?hei=250&wid=250&op_sharpen=1&qlt=90,0&resMode=sharp&op_usm=0.9,0.5,0,0 (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00922293000P?mv=rr)