Particle Board Question

[Justin Leiwig]

I'm planning on building the laundry center from workbench magazine. It makes cabinets out of the white melamine covered particle board you can buy at HD/Lowes.

What kind of case construction is best for particle board? Dados and rabbetts?

I have pocket screws and was planning on using those, but I was wondering if there was a strong joint method for particle board.

[Rod Sheridan]

I don't like cutting dadoes or rebates in MPB because I find it weakens the material too much.

For a laundry center I would use conformat screws.

Regards, Rod.

[Jamie Buxton]

The particles in particle board are not held together very tightly. If you use pocket screws, the heads are likely to pull right through the end of the board. Confirmats are much better. If your design would leave the heads exposed, you can buy melamine-colored stick-on covers. www.mcfeeleys.com sells the screws, the required special drill, and the covers.

[Vince Shriver]

If you go to McFeelys web site and click on "screws", then "cabinet & furniture screws", then "confirment screws", you can find a wealth of information and how-to. They sell a kit with the right bit and step drill-bit and plugs for under $30.

Ooops, Jamie beat me to it!

[glenn bradley]

My vote is a big NO on the pocketholes in PB. Confirmat is the way to go. You can buy the bit and the screws and even the stick-on caps (http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/5040-CSP-A/5-x-40mm-Connecting-Screw-Starter-Kit) if you go that way.

[Ray Schafer]

and don't forget that you can get Melamine Glue at the usual WW stores.

[Justin Leiwig]

So the general gist is a butt joint with conformat screws. gotcha. I'll have to read up on these screws and melamine glue. Never knew there was a special glue just for melamine.

[Richard McComas]

I have build 7 kitchens using Melamine over the last 15 years using butt joints and confirmat screws and no glue. Works just fine.

Not all Melamine is the same quality. If you have a supplier in you area that caters to the cabinet maker buy your melamine there rather than the big box stores.

Go over the the WOODWEB do a search on melamine, lots of good information on the subject.

[Chris Friesen]

Confirmat screws are good and fast but a bit pricey.

Melamine glue and regular coarse lo-root screws would do just fine. Don't reef down on the screws too much, just snug is fine.

Alternately, butt joints with biscuits and regular wood glue should also be fine.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I would never use PB in any room that contains any moisture. I know people do it and I know cabinets are made from it....just not my idea of a good idea. I've NEVER seen a cabinet made from that material that held up over the years.

[Karl Brogger]

Dado's make things quick and easy. Strength comes from backs,the wall its attached to, and the face frames. Who cares if its weaker? Its a cabinet, not a crush zone on your car. Alignment is just about stupid proof when everything is dado'd and rabbeted together.

[Jason Roehl]

I would never use PB in any room that contains any moisture. I know people do it and I know cabinets are made from it....just not my idea of a good idea. I've NEVER seen a cabinet made from that material that held up over the years.

I'm with Kelly on this. I've painted in many, many houses over the years. Anytime I have done a bathroom or laundry room where cheap materials were used, they were nasty somewhere from the inevitable toilet, tub or sink leak, or even condensation. I've even seen this in "higher-end" (for our area) homes that were just a few years old. To even have a shot at longevity, you would have to seal every last seam and exposed edge (pre-installation) meticulously.

[Larry Edgerton]

I no longer build cabinets out of Melamine but when I did I used dados so they were easy to knock together accurately. You will indeed get better material from a cabinet supply, I bought 5x9's as they work out better with less waste.

But..... I would not waste my time building a cabinet with Melamine for an area that "will" get wet. Moisture is the main reason that I quit using it. Just a scratch in our humid summer climate and they started to swell. And then there are the plumbers, the scourge of every construction site. They would invariably screw up the sink cabinet. I tryed a coat of west system in sink cabinets on the floor, and it worked, but one day I just decided that working with Melamine was not fun, and just not what I wanted to be doing so I sold my edgebander and refuse to use it any more.

Melamine is not wood......

[Von Bickley]

I would never use PB in any room that contains any moisture. I know people do it and I know cabinets are made from it....just not my idea of a good idea. I've NEVER seen a cabinet made from that material that held up over the years.

I agree with Kelly. I not going to use particle board anywhere...... :D

[Jeff Duncan]

I get melamine closet jobs occasionally and so far I've found the best bet is using biscuits for alignment, and then glue and screw together. If you use #6 x 2" SPAX screws you won't even have to pre-drill. Makes for a very fast and easy assembly. I too thought about using confirmats but a couple other cabinetmakers recommended against them, I took their advice and haven't regretted it.
If the cabinets won't be exposed to moisture you shouldn't have any problems. It's not a bathroom where you would have steam and running water. But it depends on where and how the cabs will be used. also for base cabinets I always advise the use of plywood ladder frames, makes life better in so many ways moisture or not.
good luck,
JeffD

[David Giles]

I love melamine coated particleboard....for the the right application. It's cheap, dead flat and doesn't require a finish.

There are three good ways to make joints. Confirmat screws alone work fine, but the drilling seemed too fussy to me. Dados with glue give a wood to wood (so to speak) edge that glues up stronger than the material. And the dado positions the mating board. Pockethole screws plus RooGlue work fine as well. Double up on the PH screws and don't overtighten them. RooGlue is a vinyl based adhesive for melamine surfaces.

The disadvantages of melamine PB include:
- if it gets wet, it's a goner. Plywood is a better choice for sink cabinets and laundry rooms.
- the Home Depot stuff is lousy. Get better stuff from specialty supplier.
- it's heavy. Boy, is it heavy!
- it's relatively weak. Supporting shelves need a solid wood lip to prevent sagging over much distance.

Remember that woodworking purists don't use plywood, either! Except for drawer bottoms.

[Justin Leiwig]

I understand what you all are saying about the particle board, but what else would you recommend for a laundry room? Painted plywood to me screams redneck, or hack. At least particleboard with no exposed edges looks good.

Hmmm....I'll have to think about this one a bit more.

[Joe Chritz]

Birch or maple plywood in B2 grade with a tinted white Target USL. Cut all your pieces and assemble after finishing. Just mask the dadoes and the ends of the pieces that go into them.

Alternatively you can skip dadoes (which I rarely use on cabs anymore) and run a piece of masking tape where they will but together and just use screws, either assembly screws or confirmats.

If you can't spray you can use acrylic paint to paint with a good roller and you get excellent results.

FWIW, laundry rooms don't get moisture like a bathroom with a shower so go ahead with the Melamine. Commercial cabs are often put together with dowels but the equipment to do it rapidly is crazy expensive so confirmats or screws with an applied end panel are very popular.

Joe

[Karl Brogger]

I understand what you all are saying about the particle board, but what else would you recommend for a laundry room? Painted plywood to me screams redneck, or hack. At least particleboard with no exposed edges looks good.

Hmmm....I'll have to think about this one a bit more.

All my cabinets are birch interior with a natural finish. I hire all my finishing out, but he charges the same whether its a melamine interior or wood. Take about the same amount of time to tape everything off as it does to spray it I guess. I wouldn't want to spray the insides myself, but the guy who does it for me does a fantastic job. Just as smooth on the inside as the outside.

[Lee Schierer]

I understand what you all are saying about the particle board, but what else would you recommend for a laundry room? Painted plywood to me screams redneck, or hack. At least particleboard with no exposed edges looks good.

Hmmm....I'll have to think about this one a bit more.

You can get formica type laminates and apply them to playwood pretty easily. The wood is stronger than particle board and the surface will wear as long or longer than Melamine. It also comes in a huge variety of colors and finishes. The laminate edges are pretty easy to trim with a router and laminate trimming bits.

[Chip Lindley]

Best of both worlds??? A bit pricey, but achieves the objective!! 3/4 birch ply covered with vertical grade Formica! Available in a zillion colors! Not just White anymore. It IS work, to cement the laminate to the substrate, BUT it gives ya what ya want! A nice smooth, water resistant, *NonRedNeck* finish for your very own laundry room!

The Ins and Outs of laminating is a subject for another thread. I will spare you! But thats My Idea for Today!!

[Mark Boyette]

I've dado/rabbit melemine for years with no problem. Just make sure your dado is a snug fit and you'll be fine. Wood glue and 1 1/4" staples for a quick and accurate build. As noted though I use 3/4" backs on all my melemine cabinets.