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View Full Version : New Ebay Experence



Chris Rosenberger
12-15-2008, 11:04 AM
I have bought & sold a lot of items on Ebay without any problems.
Today I listed 2 items with Ebay's offline listing tool. After I clicked upload a red warning message popped up for an instant. All I caught of it was that "PayPal will hold payment". I called Ebay & the story I got was that on some items PayPal will hold payment for up to 21 days or less if the buyer leaves positive feedback. The item I listed was a new computer drive enclosure.
I let them know that I was not happy with this policy & deleted the listing after getting off of the phone with them.
The biggest issue I have with this policy is I was not given notice before the item uploaded. This notice could be given at the same time they let you know what the fees are going to be.
Ebay has become very Seller unfriendly over the last few months.

Mike Henderson
12-15-2008, 11:45 AM
But eBay has become a lot more BUYER friendly over the past few months. Actually, they've become more like the majority of retailers in the United States.

In the past, sellers would withhold feedback until the buyer gave feedback, threatening to give the buyer negative feedback if they complained in any way, even if the buyer had done nothing wrong. Now, the seller can only leave negative feedback if the buyer does not pay. And after all, what can the buyer do that's "negative" except not pay. They can complain but that the right of a buyer. This allows buyers to give honest feedback on sellers and encourages sellers to do the simple things necessary for a successful transaction - communicate with the buyer, ship quickly and for a reasonable fee, and honestly represent the goods they're selling.

eBay also requires all sellers to accept PayPal. Again, a help to the buyer because once you sent a check or money order to the seller, there was no way to get your money back if the seller did not ship, or shipped junk. With PayPal, you can file a PayPal claim and they will act as an arbitrator to clear up the claim - and refund your money if they find the buyer did not hold up his/her end of the deal.

No, as a long time eBay buyer and seller, the new policies are a definite step in the right direction and long overdue.

Mike

Chris Rosenberger
12-15-2008, 11:59 AM
So now the seller has no power. I sell an item & send it off. Three weeks later the buyer has buyers remorse & files a complaint that they are not happy with the item. I am out the money & the item & weeks of hell trying to get this mess fixed. In the mean time PayPal has had use of the money from the time the buyer paid until it is given back to the buyer.
I am glad you are happy with this system.

Mike Henderson
12-15-2008, 12:18 PM
So now the seller has no power. I sell an item & send it off. Three weeks later the buyer has buyers remorse & files a complaint that they are not happy with the item. I am out the money & the item & weeks of hell trying to get this mess fixed. In the mean time PayPal has had use of the money from the time the buyer paid until it is given back to the buyer.
I am glad you are happy with this system.
Yep, that's the stuff all retailers deal with. It's part of life as a seller.

But most people are honest and just want to get the transaction done in a quick and honest fashion. I think you'll find that if you describe the item in a fair and honest fashion, and communicate with the buyer - thank them when they pay, tell them when you're going to ship, and send them the delivery confirmation number when you do ship (if you buy your postage from PayPal that's done for you), you won't have much trouble. The buyer doesn't know what's going on and just wants to be kept up to date.

I've never had a problem when selling. The only problems I've ever had were when buying, especially if I sent a check. I've received profanity laced responses when I ask if the item has been shipped, and received items that only vaguely resemble the item described in the auction. I quit buying from anyone who wouldn't take PayPal a long time ago. And, yes, if I have a problem with the seller, I file a PayPal claim. Every time I've had to do that PayPal has ruled in my favor and I've got my money back. But if the seller had just done the basic things (accurate description and communicate) I would not have had to file a claim.

Mike

Ben Rafael
12-15-2008, 12:23 PM
The only buyers I've had problems with were insane or deadbeats.
One complained that an item didn't come with batteries. I stated in the ad that batteries weren't included. It was a $400 calculator and this guy was complaining about $3 in batteries.
Another complained that I shipped his item in a recycled box. Item arrived undamaged and the box was like new. But he complained anyway.
And there was another yahoo who wouldn't pay for his item but complained that he never received it.

I've never had a problem with an ebay seller, but I have had problems with buyers. IMO, the sellers need protection.

Angus Hines
12-15-2008, 12:57 PM
Ebay has turned into a joke. It has become a retail outlet for their power seller group but is completely ignorant and callused to the casual seller.

Shawn Gillies
12-15-2008, 2:04 PM
I was always under the impression that PayPal would provide me a refund of my money if my complaint was ruled in my favor. I filed a 'not received' and after a month or so, Paypal says they ruled in my favor, but they can not get the funds to reimburse me. So much for the safety net!
EBay has become a joke, and Paypal is the biggest part of that joke.
I have read the 'discussions' on Ebay's chat and I decided against selling items through EBay after reading all of the Seller complaints. Now the lack of follow up regarding a refund through PayPal's complaint process, I have lost faith in believing my purchases are protected using PayPal.
So it seems both seller and buyer dislike EBay now.

Mike Henderson
12-15-2008, 2:18 PM
I was always under the impression that PayPal would provide me a refund of my money if my complaint was ruled in my favor. I filed a 'not received' and after a month or so, Paypal says they ruled in my favor, but they can not get the funds to reimburse me. So much for the safety net!

And that, of course, is why Chris can't get his money for 21 days - so that PayPal can give you your money back under the conditions you describe. What a dishonest seller would do in the past is get the money and transfer it out of PayPal so PayPal couldn't get to it if the buyer complained.

Seems to me that eBay and PayPal are doing the right things to protect honest buyers AND sellers.

Mike

[I've never researched it, but I believe if the auction has the "PayPal guarantee" logo on it, PayPal will give your money back even if they can't collect from the other party. See here (http://pages.ebay.com/paypal/buyer/protection.html) for more information.]

Greg Cuetara
12-15-2008, 9:36 PM
I consider myself as a casual buyer / seller on ebay. Mostly a buyer. I have bought a few tools, planer, jointer and other misc. items. This was years ago and I used a CC through Paypal and the transactions went very smoothly.

Recently I bid on a pellet stove. Auction stated the guy accepted paypal. I won the auction and the guy called me saying that I had to overnight a certified check. He expected me to send 2k halfway across the country without ever meeting him just on faith that he would send the stove out to me.

I was a seller for a limited time and only accepted paypal. Worked like a charm every time. All smooth transactions with no problems.

Whenever I use paypal to buy I use a CC so I am more protected through my CC than through paypal and I have never had a problem with a CC dispute. If everyone were honest out there there wouldn't be a need to not trust people but with so many shady people out there you have careful.

I agree with Mike that casual sellers are now seeing how business is really done and the cost to do business. If I walk into Rockler and buy a tool and pay with a CC Rockler has to pay about 3% plus or minus back to the CC company. It is a cost of doing business.

Chris it sounds like you just want to take your money and run. I don't think that people should be returning things 3 weeks later because they had buyers remorse but buyers and sellers need protection.

Overall I think it is a positive step but we shall see how it plays out in the coming months.

Greg

Tom Veatch
12-15-2008, 11:10 PM
...on some items PayPal will hold payment for up to 21 days or less if the buyer leaves positive feedback. ...

Haven't been very active on eBay for a couple of years now, but that sounds like PayPal has implemented something like a mandatory pseudo-escrow procedure. Not a totally bad move, IMO, especially if feedback from the buyer releases the funds. If PayPal holds the money for 3 weeks regardless, then there's grist for the complaint mill. But, then you've got buyers who never seem to get around to leaving feedback. No perfect solution as long as dishonest folks continue cluttering up the planet.

Randal Stevenson
12-16-2008, 12:43 AM
B
eBay also requires all sellers to accept PayPal. Again, a help to the buyer because once you sent a check or money order to the seller, there was no way to get your money back if the seller did not ship, or shipped junk. With PayPal, you can file a PayPal claim and they will act as an arbitrator to clear up the claim - and refund your money if they find the buyer did not hold up his/her end of the deal.


Mike


Mike, you and I have differing opinions on that one. Paypal only was disallowed in Europe and Australia, and IMHO should be here as well. I HAD protection, when using a postal money order, it is called postal fraud (started the process once, due to a company not having a complete record, due to employee changes). I'd rather trust a postal inspector.
I also believe it is a persons/business right, to choose their accepted method of payment.

Mike Henderson
12-16-2008, 12:56 AM
I also believe it is a persons/business right, to choose their accepted method of payment.
Of course, since eBay is a private company, they can make any rules they want for the use of their service. You have the right to take your business elsewhere if you don't like it.

eBay wants people to feel safe when making a purchase - that will build the volume of sales and their revenue. I suppose they feel that their new rules will enhance that goal.

And you can accept payment (or make payment) other than PayPal, but (as I understand their rules) you must offer PayPal as one of the options to the buyer. It's up to the buyer to choose what form of payment to use. I imagine most buyers use PayPal because it provides some protection to them. But you can still pay with a postal money order (as long as the seller accepts it.)

Mike

[I might point out that I'm no eBay shill. But after a number of bad experiences, I'm very happy to see eBay forcing sellers to be more customer friendly - it's long, long overdue.]

Brian Elfert
12-16-2008, 8:20 AM
I believe the only reason Ebay would require Paypal is money. They own Paypal so they get another 3% or so on every sale.

I thoght Ebay started requiring sellers to accept only credit cards or Paypal? My understanding is sellers could process their credit cards. I may very well be wrong.

Justin Leiwig
12-16-2008, 9:09 AM
I recently sold some things on Ebay and had no problems what so ever. The money went directly from the seller to paypal to me with no 21 day waiting period. If there was a 21 day waiting period, then the customer would have a 21 day waiting period to get their items. When you go into a store and special order something you are required to pay for it up front, so I don't understand why it would be any different for ebay.

Rich Enders
12-16-2008, 9:18 AM
I have no experience with E-Bay or PayPal, but there was an article in one of the woodworking magazines by a collector of antique planes who buys on the internet. He noted that he avoids any offerings that require payment via PayPal due to the extensive information disclosure required. He also noted that offerings requiring PayPal payment were always priced substantially below others, which he attributed to issues with PayPal.

Any thoughts on this?

Justin Leiwig
12-16-2008, 9:53 AM
I have no experience with E-Bay or PayPal, but there was an article in one of the woodworking magazines by a collector of antique planes who buys on the internet. He noted that he avoids any offerings that require payment via PayPal due to the extensive information disclosure required. He also noted that offerings requiring PayPal payment were always priced substantially below others, which he attributed to issues with PayPal.

Any thoughts on this?

There is no more information disclosure than any other form of payment. They only collect shipping address and method of payment.

As far as paypal being cheaper auctions...usually someone who doesn't use paypal is not a regular seller and therefore prices their items according to what their worth is to them personally. A regular seller will price an item at what it will sell at.

Jeff Mohr
12-16-2008, 10:14 AM
Don't forget...the Paypal policy isn't always there to protect buyers.

I bought a 'complete' collection of American Woodworker magazine only to receive it and find out several issues in the 'complete' collection were missing. I contacted the seller and she assured me they were there. The collection was sent completely out of order so I have no idea how she knew they were there or that she even attempted to order them to see if they were there. I reiterated that they were not all there and told her I was unsatisfied. She then changed her story saying they were all there but her mom packed them but she knows they were all there because it was her father's collection and he had them all. Well, still no help from the seller...I even offered to send them all back for a full refund. Nope.

So I made an inquiry to paypal for a partial/full refund through their system. I supplied all contact emails, pictures and everything they asked for. I was game for full refund and sending them back or even a partial refund for every issue missing. What did paypal do??? Find in favor of the seller. So...now I'm stuck with an incomplete magazine collection. So much for buyer protection. :mad:

Ben Rafael
12-16-2008, 10:16 AM
The reason that PayPal must be an option is because Ebay makes more money on paypal transactions. If ebay is saying there are other reasons it is nonsense.

Scott Loven
12-16-2008, 10:39 AM
They are planning to switch to paypal only for all auctions from what I understand. It is fine with me, 97% of my auctions are paypal anyway.
Scott

Mike Henderson
12-16-2008, 10:46 AM
I have no experience with E-Bay or PayPal, but there was an article in one of the woodworking magazines by a collector of antique planes who buys on the internet. He noted that he avoids any offerings that require payment via PayPal due to the extensive information disclosure required. He also noted that offerings requiring PayPal payment were always priced substantially below others, which he attributed to issues with PayPal.

Any thoughts on this?
My experience is that items offered with PayPal payment (before it became a mandatory option) sold for more than items offered without PayPal. The reason is that many people (myself included) would not bid on items without PayPal.

I would expect that an item offered with PayPal would have brought more than the cost of the PayPal fee for the seller.

Mike

Mike Henderson
12-16-2008, 10:55 AM
The reason that PayPal must be an option is because Ebay makes more money on paypal transactions. If ebay is saying there are other reasons it is nonsense.
eBay's goal, like any other business, is to maximize their revenue and profit. They make money on PayPal, of course, but the more important thing to eBay is to increase the volume of transactions. Making the transactions safe and easy for both the buyer and seller will increase the usage of the system and increase their profit.

Remember that the buyer is not forced to use PayPal. If the buyer did not feel that it offered some advantages (rapid payment, buyer protection, hiding of financial information) they wouldn't use it - they'd send a check or money order or some other form of payment.

So, yes, eBay makes money on PayPal but that's not the only reason they require sellers to offer PayPal.

A more reasonable complaint is that eBay does not allow any other form of "PayPal like" payment - such as the Google payment system (I think it's Google that has a payment system).

Mike

Chris Damm
12-16-2008, 11:03 AM
I have sold over 500 items on ebay and only have a little over 200 feedbacks with no complants. They aren't going to leave a feedback until they recieve the item and I'm not shipping until the money is in my account so they are going to have to wait an extra 3 weeks to get their item. It sounds like a big catch 22 to me.

Brian Elfert
12-16-2008, 11:10 AM
The 21 day waiting period on certain electronics is due to too much seller abuse. Sellers were shipping different items, broken items, or no item at all.

The 21 days is so Paypal has money to refund the buyer if things go bad. I seem to remember the waiting period started during the Xbox, Wii, and PS3 releases when sellers sold systems they didn't have and never got.

Roger Bell
12-16-2008, 9:07 PM
I welcome the day when Ebay becomes begins to become focused on buyers in addition to their sellers. Ebay should step up and become like any other vender....and realize that it is the buyers that make the world go round....not the sellers. And there is always somewhere else to buy.

It has been structured to and around the needs of sellers for far too long in a variety of ways....and, frankly, I go there less and less. Because I just don't need the hassle. You just never know when you are going to encounter a low-life. And, like with any other retailer or dealer, it only takes one or two bad experiences....................

The new payment system is one improvement. The seller should be required to offer Paypal.......where the buyer enjoys some modicum of protection from fraud both with the Paypal system itself and with one's credit card dispute system. Ebay can set it's own rules and those who don't care them can go back to selling at flea markets. Requiring seller feedback upon receipt is another long needed reform. Non-receipt of payment should be the only grounds for negative feedback given to a buyer. Intimidation through the feedback system needs to stop.

A fifteen minute rule would be welcome.

Chris Rosenberger
12-16-2008, 11:03 PM
I welcome the day when Ebay becomes begins to become focused on buyers in addition to their sellers. Ebay should step up and become like any other vender....and realize that it is the buyers that make the world go round....not the sellers. And there is always somewhere else to buy.

It has been structured to and around the needs of sellers for far too long in a variety of ways....and, frankly, I go there less and less. Because I just don't need the hassle. You just never know when you are going to encounter a low-life. And, like with any other retailer or dealer, it only takes one or two bad experiences....................

The new payment system is one improvement. The seller should be required to offer Paypal.......where the buyer enjoys some modicum of protection from fraud both with the Paypal system itself and with one's credit card dispute system. Ebay can set it's own rules and those who don't care them can go back to selling at flea markets. Requiring seller feedback upon receipt is another long needed reform. Non-receipt of payment should be the only grounds for negative feedback given to a buyer. Intimidation through the feedback system needs to stop.

A fifteen minute rule would be welcome.

I thought it was auto workers that made the world go round, or is it truckers.

How many buyers could Ebay have if they first did not have sellers?????????