New Lee Valley tool

[Dave Lehnert]

Looks like a nice tool for the price. makes you wonder if that is the correct price or not.

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/Woodworking/Planes/05p0450s1.jpg

[Phillip Pattee]

That looks like a great tool. I've been looking for a stanley 66 for quite awhile. The 66's go for about that price and are usually incomplete. I think I should stop looking and just get one of these.:)

[David Keller NC]

Interesting, but no dice. There's reasons behind why certain tools take the form that they do. The long handle would be a boon for the purpose illustrated (reeding or fluting table and chair legs), and a real bother when using the tool in congested quarters, such as profiling the edge of a roccoco furniture skirt, putting an ogee onto a complex-shaped table top, etc...

In my opinion, the LN copy of the Stanely 66 is a better buy and a better tool (not, of course, that I couldn't be convinced to have both...)

[Mike K Wenzloff]

One could easily shorten the longer of the two handles. As it is, it doesn't look much longer overall than a #66 anyway.

I do like the sense of feel the #66 does give. For me, it may not necessarily be the length but the girth of the handle and knob in relation to the body of the tool.

Still, its cost is reasonable enough (roughly a third of the LN) I *might* give it a try. I sold my Stanley #66 sometime back. I have used a scratchstock before and since. However, it seems each time I need to remake the thing, making it easier/better to use, it gets more evolved. Which takes more time to make. It's a difficult habit to break.

Take care, Mike

[David Keller NC]

"One could easily shorten the longer of the two handles. As it is, it doesn't look much longer overall than a #66 anyway."

Hmmm - Can't explain it, because it's not logical, but I have a severe resistance to modifying a (purchased) tool to suit me better. Guess it's from being a part-time tool collector. User modifications to antiques are generally a bad thing (though not always).

I could be wrong about this, because the listing on LV's site doesn't state the overall length, but I was judging the length of that long handle to be about 8".

[Jeff Wright]

I like the look of cockbeading in my cabinet designs. Could a tool like this be used to create the beads AFTER the rails and stiles are assembled?

[Derek Cohen]

I have one. It arrived yesterday, so I can't really say more than it is a good representation of LV/Veritas' typical innovative style - for example, a multi-position fence (of decent length - one of my criticisms of the #66 is the short fence). I have had a brief play and it has promise. I'm used to using a Stanley #66 (with a modified fence - see my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Improving%20the%2066%20Hand%20Beader.html) and, mainly, scratch stocks. I have made and occasionally use a wooden beader. The Veritas is similar in design and feel to the woodie.

David, the length of the long handle is 5 3/4", and the body is 2 3/4".

Jeff, you certainly could add beading after assembly.

I'll get around to a review, but probably after the New Year.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jeff Wright]

. . . Jeff, you certainly could add beading after assembly. . .
Derek

But how do you bead the corners of the rail and stile? Wouldn't the corner intersection of the rail and stile restrict the movement of the beading tool?

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Jeff, I think it would be too difficult to add the cockbead after assembly with any tool. One would need to fit the intersection of the rail/stile with chisels and or gouges. Prior to assembly, one can miter or cope the intersection with no worries, though.

If following assembly, you can add a thin beaded piece against the rail and stile down to the panel. While I have never retro-fitted a rail and stile, I have done this prior to assembly and then mitered the join. I think retro-fitting such a detail would work, extra care would be needed I think to get the depth "right."

Take care, Mike

[David Keller NC]

"David, the length of the long handle is 5 3/4", and the body is 2 3/4"."

That sounds more usable, but I think I'll still give it a pass. I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something vaguely disturbing about the comparisons I see between LV's offerings and L-Ns (not on this board, more on Knots). A lot of those comparisons tend to break down to a discussion that LV tools are available at very low prices, which I find inappropriate. I'd very much like to see the Wal-Mart mentality stay out of woodworking, though I suspect that's unrealistic on my part.

[Rob Lee]

Hi -

(cross-posted from another board)

Just a few observations - as we don't always telegraph what we're thinking about in a design....

First of all - beaders aren't rocket science - cut a slot in a dowel, and drive a screw in the end - and you've got an acceptable handle...same goes for mounting a blade to a block of wood with a fence.

The inspiration for this beader came really from coach-maker's tools - generally used on compound curved surfaces.

Recognizing that beading is generally an edge treatment, we wanted one long handle for registration/stabilisation, and a shorter handle close to the blade to control orientation/force. It's an odd looking arrangement - but one that works well for that purpose. In addition - since the tool is handed - we had to make it convertible from right- to left-handed.

If all you do is bead the edge of flat straight panels - then may of the features in this beader won't be useful for you...

This one really is a different style of beader... and it sure won't hold universal appeal...but it is intended to things that a regular beader won't - gentle curves in mutliple axes...

Cheers -

Rob

[David Keller NC]

"I like the look of cockbeading in my cabinet designs. Could a tool like this be used to create the beads AFTER the rails and stiles are assembled?"

You could do this, I suppose, but Mike's right in that it's far, far easier to do this before assembly, particularly if you're putting the cock-beading on the case instead of the drawer/door.

As a note, the vast majority of American examples of 18th and early 19th century furniture have the cock-beading applied to the drawer or door rather than the case. There are exceptions - Newport cabinet makers applied cock-beading to the case.

There are also a lot of examples of "poor man's cockbeading" in 18th century furniture from less urban locales. This type of cockbeading is cut directly from the solid of the drawer front, and isn't really cockbeading, since the drawer's front surface is flush with the top of the bead, rather than the bead standing proud of the surface.

There are few traditional tools used to make and apply cock-beading - a cock-bead molding plane (these are not all that rare), which differs somewhat from a side-bead plane in that the plane both cuts the bead and takes the adjacent surface down on the same stroke, and a cock-bead fillister plane. This last item is not at all common on the used market, and tend to be fairly pricey when they do show up.

Fortunately, the job of a cock-bead fillister can be done by other means - a more common moving fillister can be used to do the same thing, it's just more difficult to hold and use in the correct orientation.

[Dave Anderson NH]

As a question to Rob Lee and a general observation.

I've noticed a good percentage of the new tools coming from your own various manufacturing operations are either convertible for left and right handed use or are available in left handed versions. As a gauche and sinister person, I applaud this effort. Perchance is Rob Lee also a guache and sinister person and responsible for inspiring this effort?

[Rob Lee]

As a question to Rob Lee and a general observation.

I've noticed a good percentage of the new tools coming from your own various manufacturing operations are either convertible for left and right handed use or are available in left handed versions. As a gauche and sinister person, I applaud this effort. Perchance is Rob Lee also a guache and sinister person and responsible for inspiring this effort?

Dave,

I can be, at times, gauche or sinister.... but am right-handed all of the time ....:D:D

If we are going to do handed tools (and I mean primarily hand-contact bits) - then we're going to bite the bullet and run a LH version too. I'm just not comfortable with a design that doesn't work for 10-15% of the population. We'll just add a bit to the RH cost, to cover the cost of the extra tooling for youse guys...

Cheers -

Rob

[Chuck Tringo]

Does that mean there is a LH plow plane in the works then :D inquiring left handed minds want to know....


Dave,

I can be, at times, gauche or sinister.... but am right-handed all of the time ....:D:D

If we are going to do handed tools (and I mean primarily hand-contact bits) - then we're going to bite the bullet and run a LH version too. I'm just not comfortable with a design that doesn't work for 10-15% of the population. We'll just add a bit to the RH cost, to cover the cost of the extra tooling for youse guys...

Cheers -

Rob

[Rob Lee]

Does that mean there is a LH plow plane in the works then :D inquiring left handed minds want to know....

Hi Chuck -

Yes - the LH tooling was ordered awhile ago. The small plow was our first plane with the new fence design, and so we only punted on the RH tooling, until we were sure it would all work out... LH version should be available early April ....

Cheers -

Rob

[Ray Sheley]

Rob,
I'm a righty, but I applaud your dedication to those who are sinister sided. It gives us righties another option, and it let's everyone play in the game.

[Eric Brown]

Derek I like the fence you made. Have you considered how easy it would be to expand your idea by making two fences, one for each side, and then cutting them to a 45 degree angle? This would allow you to put beading on a chamfer.

Best wishes, Eric

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Eric

Good idea. I will borrow it, if I may. I do recall recently seeing a scraper with flanking fences. I can't recall where ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Will Blick]

So the Veritas beading tool's "claim to fame" is its ability to place a bead on a curved edge.... right? It appears this was the void in the market Rob was filling?

Anything else?

[Russell Tribby]

I've had the LV beading tool for a little over a year and have used it on a couple of projects, the most recent of which was a shield for my son which not only had mulitiple curved edges but also had a convex curve to it. My most recent project has a face frame with quite a few curves on it. While the tool has worked well I do have some issues when I'm shaping across the grain. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding this issue? I take shallow passes but there are times when I still end up with a somewhat rough cut.