Cabinet Construction Question

[Sam Rain]

I am building some storage cabinets for a basement. I got to build two exact units. The doors are 24'' wide, 30'' long and 1/2'' thick. The rails and stiles? or frame that connects to it is 2" wide and 3/4" thick. (Disregard the 1 3/8 in the pic)

The way I plan on doing it is the way it is shown in the pic. I'm trying not to use dadoes because I'm not set up for that. My question is can I get away with doing it this way. And is this strong enough for the doors? Thoughts.

And thanks.

[David DeCristoforo]

Plenty strong but the finish nails will not be needed. Glued and clamped with biscuits or without will do nicely... plus, no nail holes.

["Jacob Robinson"]

Do you Have Pocket Hole Capabilities, I find it to be much quicker and it'll be plenty strong for your doors.

[Sam Rain]

You know what Dave, your right. I guess underestimated the strength of biscuits and glue.

I was just a little worried because when I installed some kraftmaid kitchen cabs a while back I remembered them being dadoed. And I just thought that maybe I can do it another way.

Jacob - I wish I had one, I think I can make my own though. I'll look into that.

-Sam

[Jim Becker]

I don't even use the biscuits anymore, Sam...well, occasionally I'll put a few at the top so I have something to "hang" the face frame on while I'm positioning it for glue and clamps. And for built-ins where I can't clamp and need to install the face frames after the carcasses are hung, I'll tack with 23 gage pins which are virtually invisible. In the end, it's the glue that does the work!

[Joe Chritz]

Biscuits are for alignment, they are not needed for strength, a 1/2 plywood side, 30" tall has 15 sq inches of glue surface.

Pocket screws where they won't be seen, just glue and clamps where I can't use screws. If I have a big frame, like a full height cab I will use some biscuits for strength.

I also use biscuits on bottoms for some shear strength if I think the cab will hold heavy weights. That is overkill but is easy and mostly for piece of mind.

ETA: Not related to the strength of the glue up but if you have a router, a 3/8 straight bit and a scrap piece of hardboard and plywood you are set for dadoes. Lay the hardboard or mdf down, glue and attach a piece of plywood scrap (straight) roughly parrellel. Run the 3/8" bit down, cutting the hardboard with the edge of the router against the plywood. Instant zero clearance dado guide. I use it a lot, someday I may make a fancy one but it works. Even with one I wouldn't do dadoes, they really aren't necessary.

Joe

[Dewey Torres]

All the above have you on the right track. If you don't have a Kreg jig yet you should be ask for one for Xmas IMO:)

Happy Holidays

[David DeCristoforo]

IMMMMMMHO, pocket screwing face frames to cabinets is a complete waste of time. Biscuits will help align the sides (or top or bottom or partition) with the frame which is really all dadoing does. But I have been gluing face frames to plywood boxes for more years than I care to mention with no nails or biscuits or dadoes or pocket screws and I have never had one come off. At least not one that I know of!!! In fact, the few times I have attempted to remove a glued on face frame for one reason or another, the frame was destroyed in the attempt.

[Stan Urbas]

In fact, the few times I have attempted to remove a glued on face frame for one reason or another, the frame was destroyed in the attempt.

Which is the reason for using screws: they work in both directions.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...the reason for using screws: they work in both directions..."

A point. But I don't take the face frames off my cabinets often enough to justify the extra hassle. And my customers have never requested removable face frames.

[fRED mCnEILL]

"And my customers have never requested removable face frames."

Well, they just don't know what they are missing! LOL

Fred M

[Dewey Torres]

David,
I hope you know I was simply recommending the jig not suggesting how to put a face frame together.

[Chip Lindley]

Alignment of the faceframe with the carcase is the first critical step. How the FF is attached comes second. Dados or splines or biscuits make this alignment very easy. IMO pocket screws have no value in aligning these parts for final assembly. This is just not what they do best. Pocket screws cannot be used on an exposed cabinet side, Nor do I wish to see pocket holes inside my cabinetry. They best do their job out of sight. A few biscuits, glue and pin nailer sounds most reasonable to me.

[Larry Edgerton]

IMMMMMMHO, pocket screwing face frames to cabinets is a complete waste of time. Biscuits will help align the sides (or top or bottom or partition) with the frame which is really all dadoing does. But I have been gluing face frames to plywood boxes for more years than I care to mention with no nails or biscuits or dadoes or pocket screws and I have never had one come off. At least not one that I know of!!! In fact, the few times I have attempted to remove a glued on face frame for one reason or another, the frame was destroyed in the attempt.

I agree. You will never see me using pocket screws any more than you will see a line of holes 32mm apart in any of my work. They are not a replacement for good joinery.

[Jim Becker]

"...the reason for using screws: they work in both directions..."

A point. But I don't take the face frames off my cabinets often enough to justify the extra hassle. And my customers have never requested removable face frames.

While I don't use the pocket screw method often, I will say that it came in major handy when I had to scribe both sides of a face frame to fit into the "fabulous fake fireplace" (stone) in our kitchen. I kept the two outside stiles unglued so I could work one at a time for the scribing due to clearances. A few pocket screws at the top held the face frame on the carcass set in the opening and I used some blue painter's tape to "clamp" the bottom flush during scribing. My current method of flushing face frames with the inside cabinet walls so I can use non-face frame Euro hinges is also very conducive to using pocket screws for assembling the face frames to the carcases...the FFs overhang the cabinet boxes, so all the pocket screw holes can be on the outside of the carcases. That said, glue in the end is the real "fastener". Screws, pins, biscuits and so forth are just assembly aids.

[Ray Schafer]

There are some good deals on the Kreg Pocket Jig these days. It is a great time to buy one.

I have been using pocket screws to put the face frames on. Not because it is really necessary, but I don't have to have a lot of clamps. I just glue, screw and walk away.

[Ray Schafer]

OK, I just watched Norm's episode three of the 9-part kitchen cabinet series (while I was on the treadmill this morning). I thought of another reason that I use pocket screws, and this is probably the most important reason that I use them. (Norm used biscuits, and I got to thinking, "how does he make sure the grooves are in the right places?")

If I use biscuits, I have to measure an exact location for the grooves. Since I over-size my face frames to ensure coverage of the plywood edge, the groove for the carcass and the groove for the face frame have two different offsets. Since I have four edges to biscuit, I have to get the measurements dead on.

If I use only glue, I have to carefully clamp, and the frames may slip as I clamp. I also have to use many more clamps.

If I used pocket screws, I can take my time in locating the frames exactly as I want them, clamp with only a few clamps (like four), and then drive the screws. I don't even really need glue. I have found this to be the easiest and least-hassle way to apply my face frames.

[Anthony Watson]

I have built numerous cabinets for our kitchen, bathrooms, garage storage, etc. I take the quick and dirty approach, just assembling the plywood carcass with butt joints, glue, and air nailing finish nails. Except for insetting a plywood back, I've never bothered making dado's, and have never noticed a problem with any of the cabinets. Even the heavily loaded ones in the kitchen or out in the garage.

I use pocket screws to assemble the face frames. They're fast, easy to assemble, and very strong. Then I just glue and face nail the frame to the plywood carcass.

I know the diehard woodworkers among us would cringe at the thought of nail holes, but once I putty the holes and stain the cabinet, you can't see the holes at all unless you're really looking hard for them.

Whenever possible, I make my inside shelves adjustable. In most cases, I use a jig to drill 1/4" holes for shelf pins after the cabinet is assembled. When I need finer adjustability, I will dado the sides before assembly to inset metal shelf standards.

Works for me...

Anthony