Starter Lathe Questions

[Randy Schaffer]

First I think I may want to appologize for jumping in on my first post with this sort of question set, but here goes anyway....as I think I may have discovered "The Place."

I sort of have a hankering for a small lathe. I definately am not in the market for a full-sized lathe as I simply have no room for such a beast and really no desire for one.

So here is what I currently have on my Christmas list. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

Rikon 70-100 lathe, 14" swing, 16" between centres.
Rikon metal stand

Sorby intermediate 6-tool set (on sale at Woodcraft)
3/8" bowl gouge
1/2" round nose scraper
1/8" parting tool
3/8" spindle gouge
3/4" oval skew
3/4" roughing gouge

Bionic face shield
Pen mandrel #2MT
Caliper set

All this stuff at Woodcraft....the accessories are 20% off with the Rikon lathe purchase (at least I hope all these accessories qualify for that additional discount).

I have also considered the Jet variable speed lathe of slightly smaller size but at least $100 more.

Project wise, right now I have some small tool handle projects (firesteels with fancy wood handles using pen blanks probably), possibly a round "box" (match box) with plug lid and likely a duck call from a kit to start and likely more done without a kit. After these spindle projects I will likely move to small bowls maybe up to about 6-8" or so.

Last time I turned was in 7th grade woodshop.....4 decades ago.

I am getting the Sorby tool set rather than individual tools as it is currently $200 for the set at Woodcraft down from over $300. Any other tools brands types recommendations etc would be appreciated. I was looking at about 4 tools as my minimum but all together they were more than this set on sale. Roughing gouge, spindle gouge or spindle master, parting tool and skew or skewchigouge were my choices.

I am not springing for a chuck right now, but it will likely be something I buy fairly soon. I will likely have to buy a grinder before that though.

I searched thorough this forum over the past couple of days and tried to read all I could find on the Rikon lathe. I see that it had mixed reviews when introduced in ~2006...but seems to have had better QC lately. I have not had the time to dig through all other smaller lathe threads to see if I may have missed a real gem though.

Power tool work is not my area of woodworking, hand tools and carving are my joys, so this venture into the corded world is also new.

So anything missing, anything wrong, anything way out of whack?

Thanks. And thanks for this forum....it looks to be a wealth of info.

[Scott Lux]

Sounds like you've given this a lot of thought. I am totally jealous of your Christmas list. I think you've got everything in order.

Personally, I might spring for the Jet VS over the Rikon if only for the VS. It's really wonderful to adjust the speed without stopping the lathe and changing belts.

I think you're right about the grinder then chuck. I hand sharpened my tools the first 6 months of turning. I learned a lot about sharpening, but I now have a rotator-cuff problem. :mad:

Ordinarily I'd suggest cheaper tools to start, since we spend the first few months making them smaller while learning to sharpen. But since you are a hand-tool type, I'm assuming you've already forgotten more about sharpening than I'll ever know.

Other thoughts for the list:

Abrasives: sand paper, micro mesh, etc. You'll want a variety of grits up to at least 220. I routinely sand to 600g now, and often 800 or 1200. Some folks polish up to 2000.

Finishes: Friction finish (fast but not durable), CA (durable, but a nuiscance to apply IMO), Oil (Tung, Boiled Linseed aka BLO, etc.), Polyurethane(wipe on or spray), poly-crylic, etc, etc.

Pen Kits: Pick a style and buy them in the 10-pack (save a few$) Get good at one stlye, then pick another.

Dust Control: Do you have a method for cleaning up your shavings? A lathe makes shavings faster than about anything else.

I'm sure others will have more valuable input, but those are my thoughts.

Lux

[Randy Schaffer]

Thanks Scott.

I first started looking at the small Carba-Tec lathe at PSI. Almost all my projects I have in mind to start, that lathe would likely satisy. I started to talking to a rather new turner of a workmate and he highly recommended I upsize for the future (he is wanting to upsize after only about a year from a General midi lathe:D).

I was also looking at PSI's inexpensive tools...Benjamin's Best.

I had a feeling that I would not be satisfied with low-end tools and would have to spring for better soon, so decided to start with the higher-end ones. I generally no longer invest in "starter" tools for my work. This might be crazy for something I know almost zero about....so any redirection in this area would be appreciated. I looked at the various house tools at Woodcraft, Lee Valley....Crown and Pinnacle and others and honestly other than the price tag I have nothing to point me along the right path. I have heard of Sorby....and they are offered at very good prices for this month in that 6-tool set, so that was my total decision.

As to sanding, finishing etc, I am going to fall back on my carving area for those at least to start. I have read about some various sanding tools for the lathe that I may explore later (spinning head things), and the various finishes are a bit daunting. I generally use flaxseed or walnut oil on my carved work. I will have to experiment in this area.

I am not much into pens, but may make some of those pencil holders mostly for small spindle practice.

Dust....is going to be an issue. I will put this lathe in my garage and a shop vac is my only current method of control....much easier with carved shaving:D

I am planning on turning right at the double car door entrance of the garage for as much ventilation as I can get...that should help push the dust to every corner of the garage and completely cover everything in it:eek:

[Bernie Weishapl]

Welcome Randy. Sounds like you have a plan. I have a Rikon lathe and like it a lot. It has taken every thing I have thrown at it so far. I just bought a Jet 1220 VS. I really like it especially when sanding. If I had known 3 yrs ago what I know now I would have gotten a good set of tools and of course the Jet 1220 wasn't around then but if it was I would have started with that one. With both you can turn up to a 11" bowl quite easily and some nice vase plus HF's. I am not sorry I bought the Rikon just getting lazy in my old age. As far as sanding I did it by hand for a couple of years. Now I use a cheap Harbour Freight 90 deg drill to sand. Finishes on small turnings I use mainly lacquer, pens I use CA glue and on large turnings mainly Minwax Antique Oil or General Finishes Seal-A-Cell followed by Arm-R-Seal. You might want to look into a slow speed grinder at woodcraft plus the wolverine jig for sharpening your tools. You need sharp tools when turning as you probably know from your carving. You mentioned face shield which is good. If you fall head over heels in love with turning the next item will probably be a bandsaw. I use mine to cut my own pen blanks, blanks for lidded boxes, ornaments, bottle stoppers, cutting bowl blanks round, etc. Just some food for thought.

[alex carey]

Only one problem I see and it might be a typo. I am pretty sure the Rikon you are thinking of is 12 x 16.

Alex

[Bernie Weishapl]

Alex is right it is 12" X 16".

[Randy Schaffer]

Thanks guys....12x16 is right.

It looks like belt switches on it will not be too hard, but VS has a lot of appeal to me.

What is swaying me right now is the increased costs...including no discount on the accessories if I go with the Jet. That puts me out of budget for what I hope is only a minor not major difference in the lathes.

Unfortunately my budget is supposed to be ~$600 and with tax I am currently pushing $800. If I decide I cannot live without VS and go for the Jet I will have to wait for a sale.

[Scott Lux]

I figured you'd have some sandpaper and finish, but I thought I'd mention it. I've heard very good things about walnut oil. That may be what you end up liking best anyway.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Randy - Welcome to the Creek! Lots of good advice so far! Looking forward to seeing photos of which ever lathe you decide on!

[Skip Spaulding]

Sounds like good list, just remember, next year at this time you'll be thinking, 1624, 1642, 3520, etc.,etc.,etc.!! A guy has to start somewhere! Have A Merry Christmas, Skip

[Randy Schaffer]

Sounds like good list, just remember, next year at this time you'll be thinking, 1624, 1642, 3520, etc.,etc.,etc.!! A guy has to start somewhere! Have A Merry Christmas, Skip


:D

Skip, my wife hopes not...

Thanks for the welcome too Steve. This looks like quite a nice resource. I appreciate all the assistance.

[alex carey]

I think the best thing to do is find a wood turning guild in your area and talk to some of those guys. See if you can arrange to turn on a non VS and a VS. If you turn on both I am 95% sure you will rather wait however long it takes to get the extra cash for the VS. I have turned on a delta mini non VS and a VS and to me it is a world of difference.

You said you were purchasing a stand and I personally thing that is a mistake. I really think you are better off bolting it down to a table. They are pretty lightweight and they cost over 150$ usually. If you put your mind to it you could use a table you already have or get one off craigslist and bolt it down all for minimal cost but a lot more effort. That is what I did and I don't regret it at all. I am unsure but I think my lathe weights around 500 pounds and that really isn't enough for me. Your lathe with the stand your thinking of will only weigh a total of about 150 pounds and that isn't nearly enough. You could add on to it but its still not worth it.

[Randy Schaffer]

I like that table setup. I so have a stainless steel table that is quite heavy and sturdy that I could use as a stand. It has a sheet metal top that I could easily adapt as you did with that heavy wood beam.

I will consider this...saves enough for the VS Jet too....hum. Under advisement. The only issue is I will not be able to move the lathe in my garage. That might be my biggest problem with the heavy table approach.

I have a workbench that I could just use for the lathe when needed but I sort of wanted to keep it clear....well as clear as my workbench ever is that is.

I have a couple of books showing sand-filled leg tables that would be another custom option...but certainly one that would take me some time.

[Randy Schaffer]

These shots show some of the layout of my "shop". The stainless desk is over by the shop vac in the first shot. This is around the area I proposed to put the lathe (for storage), but with intention on moving it out into the center of the garage closer to the door to actually turn.

I have my drill press on the desk now with room for a grinder. If I went for a heavy stand I think it would be best to custom build it for the lathe. I would likely move it closer to the door and keep it on the edge of the car bay.

I am sort of liking that idea now. But what do you all think about using these rolling drawer units with a solid top for a stand? I really had not considered that at all.


http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6238/gladiatorbench0828nv0.jpg


http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/3298/shop2719zy5.jpg

[Richard Madison]

Randy,
Suggest serious consideration of the VS lathe. Beginning turners generally want/need slower spindle speeds until they get some experience. Add to that the fact that the slowest speed on many small lathes is too fast for, say, roughing an 8" bowl (for beginning turners). Even after I "upgraded" to an EVS lathe I turned at slower speeds than the handy chart that came with the lathe. The EVS was very helpful. When power sanding on the lathe I "slow roll" it at 50 to 100 rpm.

With some experience, am now usually turning faster than the chart (when I happen to notice the tach). Just some thoughts.

BTW, when you get to the point of turning some bowls and carving them, you should have some really cool stuff to show us. Good luck.

[Philip Morris]

Randy,
A friend of mine got a Rikon mini for Christmas last year. He now regrets not getting VS. Be advised not all mini VS lathes are the same. For example, the Jet 1014 VS has a 3-pulley arrangement as opposed to the non-VS 6-speed. The effect is that they both achieve the same low speed of +/- 500rpm, which is too fast for roughing an out of balance blank. On the other hand the Jet 1220 VS uses the same 6-speed pulley as the non-VS, so when the motor speed is reduced, it turns much slower than the non-VS model (200 rpm as opposed to 500 rpm).

To put this in perspective, I had a Jet 1236 before this. It weighed 175 and I added 300 lbs of ballast to the stand. It also had a 550 rpm lowest speed. I mounted an unbalanced roughed turning on it and it shook the entire lathe at low speed. Placed the same rough turning on the Jet 1220 VS. No vibration at 200. In fact, it did not begin to vibrate until the rpms were above 400.

If you decide to go with a Jet, check out the link below. Their prices include free shipping to business addresses. I saved about $100 going through them.

http://www.hydraulicpartsnow.com/WoodMetalWorking/WoodLathesJWL1220JWL1220VS/tabid/490/Default.aspx

I can recommend the Woodcraft slow speed 8" grinder. A friend of mine just got into turning and bought one. Very smooth and quiet. Wheels are decent enough to get you started, too. At $79 it is really a good deal. Rather than buy a commercial grinding jig for sharpening, consider making one. The following link is to a "Wolverine-style" jig that several friends have made and have been very satisfied.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00115.asp

Good luck and welcome to the vortex.

[Randy Schaffer]

It definately is a vortex....:D

I can see that the variable speed is winning.

Thanks for the grinder tip and the jig link, that looks like a very good way to go.

I may have to just hold out until after the holiday to see if the Jet VS1220 goes on sale. It is just enough more dollars to stop this purchase for a Christmas lathe.

[Scott Conners]

Randy,
If I were choosing a midi lathe, the #1 deciding factor (failing major design flaws) would be the speed range. Speed adjustment is far more critical with a small lathe that can't counteract balance problem with large mass and giant bearings. My Jet mini became a much better machine when I took it off the kitchen table it was sitting on top of and bolted it to the stand. Even still, starting a 10-12 lb olive bowl blank at 500rpm wants to make it walk. I'd love to be able to turn the speed down, or in many cases with larger spindles, just adjust the speed a bit to get rid of harmonic vibration. I'd also prefer it to be bolted to a bench (the stand was an emergency purchase, not my first choice), stability is everything in a lathe.
You're starting with good tools, using some sort of grinding jig can really save you some steel. Even as a novice to a grinder, having a jig let me easily maintain profiles on my gouges, where hand sharpening had just frustrated me. Make sure you have a way to dress the wheels round, it makes a big difference. Diamond dressers are better than star wheels for the preferred white (aluminum oxide) wheels.

You're starting off the very right way, and I envy you! :D

[Donald Barfield]

I have had the rikon for a year and prefer it to any jet I have used except for the 16x42. The variable speed is nice but the belt changes on the rikon are so easy I do not feel it is worth the extra money. If you want to go with the variable speed I 'd look at the Grizzly 12x20 variable speed going for $375 .It is a clone of the jet and is well built. I have a friend that bought one 6 months ago and really loves it. I have turned on it and almost bought one myself but decided to wait for a variable speed till I can find a good deal on a full size lathe.

[Cyril Griesbach]

Randy, You've gotten lots of good advice here already but finding a local club has only been mentioned once that I saw and it just may be the best advice of all. Go to this AAW link

http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/LocalChapters.asp

and contact the local chapter closest to you and go to their next meeting. Get to know some of the members and find out if they have a mentoring program. You will likely be able to try a variety of lathes and tools and sharpening systems of the members/mentors. Of course you'll get lots more advice but the hands on experience may help you make decisions more comfortable to you.

Good luck and welcome.

Cyril

[Gordon Seto]

...the Grizzly 12x20 variable speed going for $375 .It is a clone of the jet and is well built.


I don't know whether Grizzly has corrected the banjo design problem. I believe they have put the tool post on the right (wrong) side of the banjo to make it different. By doing so, it prevents the tool rest getting close when turning the interior of bowls near the capacity of the lathe. The rim of the bowl would be hitting the base of the tool rest assembly while the tool rest is at least couple inches away. Such a long overhang is dangerous and difficult to get a decent cut off the tool.
I think the engineers at Grizzly lack knowledge of woodturning. They always put bells and whistles on their lathes that ruin the functions of the good lathes that they clone from. Such as putting a disk sander in place of a hand wheel.
I would take the Jet 1220VS. It has a 5 year warranty.

[Frank Sornson]

Something to consider would be the Steel City VS lathe. Same specs as the Jet 10x14 except it is $250.

[Randy Schaffer]

Randy, You've gotten lots of good advice here already but finding a local club has only been mentioned once that I saw and it just may be the best advice of all. Go to this AAW link

http://www.woodturner.org/community/chapters/LocalChapters.asp

and contact the local chapter closest to you and go to their next meeting. Get to know some of the members and find out if they have a mentoring program. You will likely be able to try a variety of lathes and tools and sharpening systems of the members/mentors. Of course you'll get lots more advice but the hands on experience may help you make decisions more comfortable to you.

Good luck and welcome.

Cyril


Well thanks everyone for the suggestions and the welcomes. Even though it seems my choices are getting harder, at least I know approximately where I am going.:rolleyes:

Adding a lathe to my shop requires so many "must haves" on day one that it is a bit overwhelming. I really do not like to make regrettable compromises....I have done way to many of those over the years. But when a fellow buys a carving knife that is "not right" it is not quite the same thing:D

The very first suggestion the Woodcraft guy gave me was the local Seattle Turners Club. I have not yet made arrangements to join or visit but that is on my list.

I think I have almost decided to wait until after the new year to buy anything...By then the 20% tool and accessory discount will be off the Rikon and maybe another deal will be in the offing.

Of course, last night I was ready to follow Donald's advice and go down to Woodcraft and lay down the plastic on the Rikon and Sorby tools.:D

I have definately decided to skip the stand. I can turn on my workbench until I build a purpose-built table.

The other issue is I have been reading a bunch of threads here that have added several projects to my list of must do turnings.

Vortex...

[Jim Koepke]

I am very new at turning, didn't even do it in shop class decades ago.

I would have to agree with others here, save up for the VS.

My lathe is an old Craftsman (King-Seely) from the early 1950s. I have only changed speeds once. Since then, it has been returned to its lowest speed. It will be a long time before it behooves me to increase the speed.

Three most important words to remember when it comes to turning... vibration, vibration, vibration.

I do not think the tool box tops would be a good place to work a lathe. The former owner of my lathe built a nice oak cabinet with retractable wheels for it to sit on. It works nice, but anything even a little out of balance makes a lot of noise. It is hard to turn true when everything is shaking.

jim

[Randy Schaffer]

Well I think I have made up my mind. I am going to try for the Jet 1220VS. I have eliminated a few items to bring this one closer to my original budget. I am planning on going to Woodcraft to buy it next week. The newly announced $50 rebate on top of the earlier $25 rebate helped in this decision, but honestly all your responses helped me a lot more than that.

Hopefully after Christmas I can post up some photos of something resembling a round object.:D

[alex carey]

"But what do you all think about using these rolling drawer units with a solid top for a stand? I really had not considered that at all."

Do not do this. This is extremely inadvisable. If you mount your lathe to a table with wheels it will go berserk. Two days ago I mounted a 45 pound out of balance piece of wood to my 500 pounds lathe. The lowest speed is around 300. 3 hours later I finally had it roughed out. Yesterday I decided to go to the hardware store and buy some stuff so I can BOLT it to the ground. My lathe was dancing like crazy. If you do anything near half of what I did and your lathe is on wheels, it will fly around your work shop, no joke.

"The only issue is I will not be able to move the lathe in my garage. That might be my biggest problem with the heavy table approach."
Yeah that is somewhat a problem with my lathe, luckily I am only 18 and my back is in prime condition to lift heavy objects. I tend to lift one side at a time to get it where I need it to go but there are other options.
The expensive option is something like this.
http://www.tylertool.com/delta19.html?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=nextag
The cheap option is to put a set of wheel on one side so that when you lift the other side an inch it is now on the wheels. This would make it a bit easier. when you life it up you either move it yourself or slide this under it.
http://www.rentaltoolsandequipment.com/equipmentPictures/4WheelDolly.jpg

Presto it moves like butter. Again this starts costing more money. Like I said I move it by hand even though its a pain.

I forgot to mention that I also have some free weights that weigh it down about 100 pounds. I can easily take them out to make the lathe a lot lighter.

Hope this helps.

[Jim Kountz]

Well looks like the vortex is claiming yet another victim!! I was in your shoes a little over a a year ago. I grabbed an Ebay deal on an old Delta lathe and jumped right in. It wasnt even 6 months later I got a Jet 1642 EVS. I dont even want to think about the tools and accessories I got along the way and its only been about 14 months now!! That said I wouldnt trade this for anything in the world. Turning is the most satisfying most rewarding thing I have ever done in my shop and Ive been a cabinetmaker/woodworker/carpenter for over 22 years now.
The help and expert advice you will find here will become indespensable and you will be amazed at some of the work folks here turn out, motivating you to learn more and more and better your skills.
I will cast one more vote for the VS lathe, you will never regret it. My first lathe was not and after having the VS I can tell you its a pain in the bumpkiss to change those darn belts everytime. Guess Im spoiled now!!
So jump on in the vortex is fine, have fun with it and stay safe!!

[Jon McCoy]

Looking forward to seeing you at the January meeting, be sure to mention to one of the club officers that you need a mentor so we can get you matched up with someone. There's also a new turners' shop tour in January, which might give you some more ideas on shop layout and mounting your lathe.

I delayed getting my turning setup for over a year, until I had the money saved up to get everything I needed -- the lathe really is the cheap part, when you add up the rest of the stuff that makes it fun.

-jon-