End of the Powermatic 66

[Dave Lehnert]

This may be old news to some but new to me. Got this e-mail from a dealer here in town. Hardwood Lumber and More.
Thought I would pass it along.



"This afternoon there were exactly 158 Powermatic Model 66 Tablesaws of all versions left that were not already in dealer's inventory. When these are gone there will be no more new Powermatic Model 66 Tablesaws to be had. Sadly, this is the end of the line for the Model 66, one of the finest American made tablesaws ever produced. So, if the Model 66 is the tablesaw you have always wanted, it's time to act."

[John Ricci]

I don't own a PM66 but I do own a General 650R. Could it be no riving knife = "history" rather than a re-design?

J.R.

[Pat Moy]

John,
In my opinion, you're right. I've owned my PM66 for 12 years. My biggest complain is the splitter. I hated the splitter that came with the saw, so I replaced it with the Biesemeyer version, which proved to be a bear to align with the blade. The only advantages of the Biesemeyer splitter are that it can be removed easily, and that I can fit my Excalibur guard/dust collector over the blade during operation. If I had the money, I would trade in my PM66 for a PM2000 or a Sawstop in a second.

[Neal Clayton]

what's the difference between the 2000 and the 66? i have a late 80s 66, never seen a 2000 in person.

[Jim Becker]

Neal, the PM2000 adds some features, such as the built in mobility and a riving knife, etc. The latter is probably the reason for PM not continuing the PM66 as the PM2000 seems to be doing well in the market (anecdotal comment not based on any scientific analysis) and since riving knives are required now on all new models released since this past January (with all saws sold from 2014 on requiring them) it just doesn't make business sense to have two machines in essentially the same market space. Especially with the global economic conditions. That said, the PM66 has always been well known for it's extremely heavy trunnion system and the left-tilt orientation that helped move the market more in that direction, too. Great machines.

[Greg Griswold]

Is the PM2000 US made? Is it the same quality as the old PM66?

Thanks

Greg

[Pat Moy]

Greg,
Great quality tools come from all over the world these days. With few exceptions, you have to decide by looking at the individual tool rather than where the tool was made. I bought myTennessee-made PM66 new over 10 years ago. I checked table flatness back then; it was perfect. Around a year ago, I was getting burn marks on many cuts. I had my WWII sharpened by Forrest, and checked tuning on the saw numerous times, but the burning persisted. Finally, someone suggested I check for table flatness. When I checked, I was shocked to discover a 0.03" sag near the middle of the cast iron table. I called Powermatic to ask. The tech rep said this should not have happened because PM ages their cast iron before milling. He said that if the saw was new, he would replace the table free of charge. But given its age, all he can do was refer me to a used machine dealer who may be able to sell me a used table. I ended up having the top ground for $150 at a local machine shop, which I thought was a good deal. After table grinding, the saw cuts perfectly again.

I recently bought a Grizzly (G0490) 8" jointer; it's my first Grizzly product. It works great. I would never have considered a Grizzly anything 10 years ago. I bought the Grizzly based on good reviews by others on this forum, as well as a review on one of the woodworking magazines (I think it was American Woodworker). I own power tools made by many companies. I have a Laguna LT18 and a Jet 14" band saw. A couple of old Dewalt radial arm saws, which I've refurbished (http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn98/ptmoyfb/RAS/GA/GA-A4.jpg http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn98/ptmoyfb/RAS/MBF/BF-A5.jpg). A Performax drum sander, a jet planer and disc sander, and a Delta drill press. Overall, I'm pretty happy with these tools.

As I said, you really need to evaluate each tool based on its own merit. I draw on opinions of other forum members quite a bit when I'm in the market for a new tool.

[Pat Germain]

Is the PM2000 US made? Is it the same quality as the old PM66?

Thanks

Greg

Nope. It's made in Asia. I've heard about a few initial problems with new PM2000 saws. However, once those are resolved they seem to be very good, high quality machines. I looked at a PM2000 on a showroom floor and was disappointed at the built-in mobility. After cranking the wheel what seems like 500 spins, it raises the saw only a tiny fraction of an inch. I'm thinking this would be a problem for a typically uneven wooden or concrete shop floor.

I'm pretty sure the only table saw currently made in the USA is the new Delta Unisaw. Last I heard, it will be available in February. Some have speculated the new Unisaw uses castings from Mexico. If that's the case, that would be fine. Mexican factories have been turning out high-quality castings for decades; to include many Ford V-8 engine blocks.

[Robert Parrish]

Greg, No the PM200 is made in Taiwan. I had a lot of trouble with the switch on my PM2000 which was replaced 3 times. Each time I tried to use a full dado set it would not run properly and the motor got red hot. I had tech support install a PM66 switch and it works fine now. I have to give tech support credit in that they stuck with me until it was working. They even replaced the motor thinking that was the problem.

[John Thompson]

Agree with Pat on where they are made, Greg. But.. is it the same quality as the PM 66? The trunnions are heavier on the 66 and even though cast iron can release stress years after the original grinding regardless of where the saw was made... the 66 is considered one of the best quality American style cabinet saws made. Just the properties of cast iron.

If you have a 66... don't up-grade IMO.. :)

Sarge..

[Greg Griswold]

Thanks for the answers. I have lusted for a PM66 for a long time, however, with the current economy (and layoffs coming next month in my company), I will have to wait and try to get a used PM66.

Again, thanks.

Greg

[Pat Germain]

One advantage is there seems to be a lot more used machines for sale these days. That should push the prices down at least a little.

[John Callahan]

Is the PM2000 US made? Is it the same quality as the old PM66?

Thanks

Greg

imho the made in Taiwan PM 2000 while a fine saw isn't quite up to the build quality of the older PM 66's (No experience with post WHM buyout PM 66's). Powermatic had their own foundry using the Meehanite process. Castings were normalized (aged) and the Baldor motor they used is regarded by many to be the best. I suspect the lack of a riving knife and the cost of producing the 66 brought about it's demise.

[Dave Lehnert]

I suspect the lack of a riving knife and the cost of producing the 66 brought about it's demise.

Another regulation that put jobs out to pasture.

[Wilbur Pan]

Another regulation that put jobs out to pasture.

Just to clarify:

1. The "regulation" is actually coming from the private sector. The riving knife requirement is from Underwriters Laboratories, not the government.

2. There's nothing in the riving knife requirement that states that the table saw must be made outside the U.S. This is strictly a decision on the part of the manufacturers, probably driven by the fact that woodworkers for the most part won't pay for a table saw with U.S. labor costs built into the price.

[Brian Norton]

I just finished rehabing a PM66 hand me down from my uncle. This thing is a tank!! I used alot of TLC and Butcher's wax on the slides. Beautifully smooth! He kept the fence setup though and is still using it on his dad's old cabinet saw. I got a 52" Delta Unifence in lieu of... Am I missing one of the best features of the PM66 or not?

[Chris Rosenberger]

I have a Unifence on my PM66. I like it better than the other fence.

[Doug Shepard]

If anyone in the MI area is looking for one, Performance Tool in Pontiac had 4 when I was in there about mid-December. They said they tried to get more but were only allowed 4.

[Rod Sheridan]

Another regulation that put jobs out to pasture.

Actually Dave, it was a decision made by PM not to continue production of the saw, they have until 2014??? to continue making existing saws without a riving knife.

General is the last manufacturer left standing in the light industrial class now that PM doesn't manufacture in NA any longer.

It's all economics, most people won't pay to obtain a made in NA piece of equipment, and frankly, when compared to the Euro equipment, there's good reason for that.

Regards, Rod.

[Doug Shepard]

...
General is the last manufacturer left standing in the light industrial class now that PM doesn't manufacture in NA any longer.
...


Delta's updated Unisaw is supposed to be made in TN

[Karl Brogger]

Not having a riving knife or a splitter is a plain stupid reason to discontinue a model. The PM2000 is not a replacement in my mind. Haven't used one, but looked at a demo, wasn't that impressed.

I've worked at six different cabinet shops, seven if you count my own. Two have been since I started on my own to fill in the slow times. Not one saw, in one shop had a splitter on it.

[Neal Clayton]

i've never used a saw with either a splitter or a blade guard. started at 17 in high school, 15 years later still have all my fingers and toes. must be a miracle ;).

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Three sources of sadness today.

1. Retirement savings statement came today--nuff said. :(:eek:

2. Tony Dungy retires as coach of the Colts. :eek:

3. I learn that the beloved PM66 will no longer be manufactured. I thought the name would continue, with revisions. :(

Only #1 has any real effect on my life. But 2 and 3 kind of leave an empty feeling that will go away if Coach keeps some ties to Indy and a PM saw worthy of the 66 reputation is in the product line.