A new Dovetail Saw

[Ray Gardiner]

This was made as a present, I have to say it was a struggle from start to finish. I will spare the gory details and just present the results.
The brass back is slotted using a setup described here

http://www.backsaw.net/cpg/displayimage.php?album=20&pos=1

The rest of the process, I will do a proper write up one of these days.

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/RYDTSAW.jpg

This one is taken from the scanner

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/RYDT.jpg

I re-did the screws between those two pics, the last one, I just linished flush (yes I know!) , the top pic I was trying for a more polished look on the screws, didn't really work out.

I cut the teeth 17tpi (just marked direct from ruler in 1/16ths) this is finer than I have been doing (usually 12-14 tpi)

Also I went a lot narrower on the blade height and gave it a bit of cant (taper).

The wood is walnut. The finish is shellac and wax

I now have to do a couple in Sheoak. (love making saws! very satisfying!)

Regards
Ray

[Alan DuBoff]

Ray,

Looks wonderful!

Really has nice lines, I like it a lot.

Let me go sulk with my broken handle...:p *g*

[Dave Anderson NH]

Beautifully done Ray. I like walnut as a handle material for tools that don't get beaten on with a mallet.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Jeez,

You and Alan are setting the bar pretty high! Beautiful!

T.Z.

[Robert Rozaieski]

A beauty Ray!

[Duncan Potter]

Schweeet!

I like the walnut too!

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Nice work, Ray.

Lovely wood. Looks like a winner.

Take care, Mike

[Randy Klein]

That's a present? What a lucky recipient. Great job.

[Ted Jay]

A beauty Ray!

That is a beauty.

One question though, pertaining to the cutting of the slot in this picture:
http://www.backsaw.net/cpg/displayimage.php?album=20&pos=1
is the direction of feedstock in relation to the teeth of the cutting blade backwards? Or does it have something to do with the cutting of the brass?
Or is this a second pass of your cut?

[Pedder Petersen]

Hei Ray,

another beautiful saw.
I like the sheoak.
How did you made the nuts?

Cheers Pedder

[Alan DuBoff]

Pedder,

I think he did the Poor Boy Split Nuts (http://www.norsewoodsmith.com/node/108)., but Ray will know what he did better what he did...:rolleyes: Thanks go to Leif Hanson for that tip that many folks have used to create split-nuts.

You can also buy them from Tools For Working Wood, $6/ea.

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Or W&S for less...

[Ray Gardiner]

That is a beauty.

One question though, pertaining to the cutting of the slot in this picture:
http://www.backsaw.net/cpg/displayimage.php?album=20&pos=1
is the direction of feedstock in relation to the teeth of the cutting blade backwards? Or does it have something to do with the cutting of the brass?
Or is this a second pass of your cut?

Hi Ted,

I feed the brass in multiple passes, just a shallow cut each time, I went way too deep on that on in the picture, you don't need to cut that deep.

And you feed against the rotation direction, if you go the other way the brass will shoot across the workshop... (don't ask how I know)...

Regards
Ray

[Ray Gardiner]

Hei Ray,

another beautiful saw.
I like the sheoak.
How did you made the nuts?

Cheers Pedder

Hi Pedder,

Thanks for the comment, this one is walnut, the one I am making now is sheoak.

And Alan is correct the split nuts are made using basically Leif Hansens Poor Boy Split nuts technique. That Alan linked to..


MikeW wrote: Or W&S for less...

After stuffing up a few, I think it might be time to go up-market and buy
some from W&S.....

Regards
Ray.

[Derek Cohen]

What or who is W&S?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ray Gardiner]

What or who is W&S?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Wenzloff & Sons -- a bit cryptic, but as it was posted by Mike W :D

[Alan DuBoff]

Or W&S for less...
Mike,

Given the time it takes me to make a split-nut, I would buy them from you if I was going to use brass. I still have a few left that I bought from Johnny, and gave some of them away to friends, but I used them in this saw as I want to use bronze on my own saws and I wanted to get rid of the brass split-nuts.

I'll steer folks your way, in fact I know a guy who is looking to make some saws and would most likely be interested in them. How much do you charge for them?

FWIW, I think a wider slot is a better. I'm going to try 1/16" wide. I have some I did with 3/32", and it's not bad IMO, but I would like thinner. I think 1/16" will be good. 1/16" is .0625.

[David Keller NC]

"I re-did the screws between those two pics, the last one, I just linished flush (yes I know!)"

Hmm - perhaps I'm not quite getting your meaning here, but linishing/filing sawnuts flush to the handle is an historically accurate method. I've several antique British backsaws dating from the late 1700's to early 1800's, and on all of them, the saw nuts have been filed flush to the handle (which makes getting the handle off extremely difficult, btw). Unfortunately, I don't have any truly early saws where the fixing method is riveting, but it wouldn't surprise me at all that the filing of saw nuts flush to the handle was a hold-over from the riveting method, and was just done to satisfy customers who expected a flush-filed look, and was suspicious of the "new fangled" method of a threaded nut and bolt.

[Ray Gardiner]

"I re-did the screws between those two pics, the last one, I just linished flush (yes I know!)"

Hmm - perhaps I'm not quite getting your meaning here, but linishing/filing sawnuts flush to the handle is an historically accurate method. I've several antique British backsaws dating from the late 1700's to early 1800's, and on all of them, the saw nuts have been filed flush to the handle (which makes getting the handle off extremely difficult, btw). Unfortunately, I don't have any truly early saws where the fixing method is riveting, but it wouldn't surprise me at all that the filing of saw nuts flush to the handle was a hold-over from the riveting method, and was just done to satisfy customers who expected a flush-filed look, and was suspicious of the "new fangled" method of a threaded nut and bolt.

Hi David,
I was trying for a polished finish on the split nuts, the problem I had was that when polishing the ends it rounded the edges and looked worse. I think on reflection (and seeing that's how Mike does it) that the linished flush look is what I'll stay with.

If you keep parallel when linishing there is no reason why it should be any harder to take the handle off, or put it back on.

Regards
Ray

[Ted Jay]

Ray,
How do you cut the teeth in the blade, and how do you evenly space them?
I ask because I wouldn't even know where to start or what to use, not that I will ever make one at this point, just curious.
Ted

[Ray Gardiner]

Ray,
How do you cut the teeth in the blade, and how do you evenly space them?
I ask because I wouldn't even know where to start or what to use, not that I will ever make one at this point, just curious.
Ted

Hi Ted,
There are a lot of different methods, you can use.

A good way is to get a hacksaw blade with the desired pitch and use that as a template.

Another way is to use a paper template.

The method I used on this one, was to go for 17tpi which is 1/16 spacing and I marked off each inch and file a small notch, then split that and notch every 1/2" and then 1/4 and 1/8, for the final 1/16, you don't need to mark just split the difference by eye. Then work along watching the flat spots until they just dissapear. Joint lightly again to bring back small flat spots and repeat. Then set. After setting stone the sides and re-joint (again)
then lightly touch up each tooth. I find needle files work well for the smaller teeth. I got some swiss ones off ebay and they give a really crisp finish, which I think leads to nice sharp teeth.

The set is very light, I use the blue somax from TFWW on the lightest setting. I still have trouble seeing the teeth clearly and use a marking pen to put a dot on every second tooth so you know which one you are doing.

Hope that helps, there are plenty of good saw sharpening primers out there that are full of good info.

Regards
Ray

[Pedder Petersen]

this one is walnut, the one I am making now is sheoak.


:o:o:o:o:o
Than: I like the walnut and would like to see the sheoak. :rolleyes:

I bought some commercial splitnuts (M6, 11mm) from stainless steel. Now I have to find the stainless steel screws.:)


Cheers
Pedder

[Phillip Pattee]

Ray,

Can you tell us more about the saw blade you use to cut the slot in the brass? What size kerf (is kerf the right term in metal?) does it leave in the brass back?

I am considering attempting to make a saw myself having been inspired by several creekers with their own saws. I don't have much in the way of metal machining tools and I thought that a slotted back would be easier than a folded back. My idea is that chucking a metal cutting disc from a dremel tool in my router would work. I know my router table is parallel to the routers cut, and height adjustment is incredibly easy. I think the adjustment would be easier than on a drill press. Also the router is made to have sideways pressure on it when cutting whereas the drill press is not. Obviously the drill press works just fine though.

I love your handle--its a real beauty.:D

[Ray Gardiner]

Ray,

Can you tell us more about the saw blade you use to cut the slot in the brass? What size kerf (is kerf the right term in metal?) does it leave in the brass back?

I am considering attempting to make a saw myself having been inspired by several creekers with their own saws. I don't have much in the way of metal machining tools and I thought that a slotted back would be easier than a folded back. My idea is that chucking a metal cutting disc from a dremel tool in my router would work. I know my router table is parallel to the routers cut, and height adjustment is incredibly easy. I think the adjustment would be easier than on a drill press. Also the router is made to have sideways pressure on it when cutting whereas the drill press is not. Obviously the drill press works just fine though.

I love your handle--its a real beauty.:D

Hi Phillip,

The blade is a 0.020" slitting blade, generally available from engineering suppliers. You also need the arbor to suit.

Don't under any circumstances use this in a router, a router is WAY too fast... on the drill press I have it running at the slowest speed, and with the belt tension backed off, so if it ever jams the belt will just slip. The bottom of the arbor is sitting on a hole in the bottom block of wood, which does two things, 1. Stops the chuck from dropping.. 2. Takes some of the side load.

It isn't that hard to set up and, with a bit of care, produces good results.

Regards
Ray

[Phillip Pattee]

Hi Phillip,


Don't under any circumstances use this in a router, a router is WAY too fast... on the drill press I have it running at the slowest speed, and with the belt tension backed off, so if it ever jams the belt will just slip. The bottom of the arbor is sitting on a hole in the bottom block of wood, which does two things, 1. Stops the chuck from dropping.. 2. Takes some of the side load.

It isn't that hard to set up and, with a bit of care, produces good results.

Regards
Ray


Ray, Thanks for the information. I wasn't considering chucking that saw up in my router. I was thinking of one of the dremel cut off discs. The problem is that that shaft for the dremel bits is so thin that a regular router wouldn't grip it right. I'll probably make a router table insert for the dremel and use it.

[Mike K Wenzloff]

I don't think a Dremel will have enough power to slot the brass, at least very deep with each pass.

fwiw, I run the mill at about 1200 rpm with a 2 3/4" slotting cutter down to 0.020" thick cutter. Thinner than that we use a smaller diameter cutter.

Take care, Mike