Square vs Round Dogs - Any advantage

[Lyndon Graham]

As you can tell, I am new to this. I am about to build a cabinet makers workbench.

Any reason I should go with square versus round. I like the looks and tradition of the square, but the rounds are easier to make and seem to have most of the advantages.

Thanks

[Josiah Bartlett]

My bench has round dogs, and they are fine except for one thing- there is no way to keep them from spinning in their bore. This is not normally a problem, but if you are using two dogs to hold a corner it tends to slip around a little. This is good if you want to keep the square corners of the dog from marring the work but not so good from a keeping the work still standpoint.

I would prefer square dogs. If you are concerned about marring you can file the corners off the square dogs, but round dogs won't index or hold from turning.

[David DeCristoforo]

It's easier for round dogs to catch their own tails....

[Eddie Darby]

If you are holding something that is not flat and straight, but round and curved, or even slanted, then round dogs will adjust in their holes to hold the unconventional shape well.

Perhaps you can go with a combo of both.

[Ed Howe]

It's easier for round dogs to catch their own tails....

And roll over.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Jim McFarland]

I went with round holes and Wonder Pups & Bench Pups from Lee Valley:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=31130&cat=1,41637,41645

No regrets with the combination.

[Jim Koepke]

My bench came with round holes and they work fine for me.

One possibility that has crossed my mind is to have square holes and make pieces to fit into them to take the 3/4 round accessories.

This would likely give the best of both worlds.

Then again, it may not work at all.

jim

[Chuck Saunders]

Ed, you should be slapped, but David you should be beaten. To quote Simon from Amer Idol, "That was awful"

[Ray Schafer]

I am going with round so that I can just build the top (done) and drill the holes with an auger bit (next couple of weeks).

[David Keller NC]

Lyndon - Just my opinion. I've made several benches over the years, the last one completed a couple of weeks ago. I've used both round & square dog holes on benches, one has both.

My thought is that if you do (or intend) planing against a stop, then I'd go with round holes throughout - they're just a lot easier, both from the standpoint of making the holes and making the dogs (or purchasing them, if you're so inclined).

If, on the other hand, you prefer to pinch boards in the traditional tail vise/dog set-up, I'd go with square ones, at least for the front row. You will, however, still need some round ones for bench holdfasts.

The reasoning behind the square ones for the front row is that there will be occasions where you'll want to plane rough stock that has non-square ends, and in my opinion it's easier to hold those pieces between a square dog in a tail vise and a square dog in the bench.

[Hank Knight]

And roll over.

Sorry, couldn't resist.


They're not good on steep slopes. :D

I couldn't either.

[Marcus Ward]

If you make your dogs 3/4" square, you can put round accessories in them, I do it all the time. Holdfasts fit in and work quite well in square dog holes.

[Eric Brown]

I have round dogs and hold-downs from Veritas. I modified most of them by glueing leather to the faces.
This gives a better grip and reduces marking from the hard metal.

[Jim Becker]

ETo quote Simon from Amer Idol, "That was awful"

Jackson said it was "Pitchy"... :D

-------

On the original topic, I have and use round dogs. I think they are easy and work well for most situations. But there are obviously some things where a square/rectangular format has advantages including the "spinning" issue that has already been mentioned. For square dogs, you more or less have to build the dog holes into the top from the start. (Yea, you can chop them later, but that's a whole lot of "not fun") Round dogs can be placed at any time, including adding additional holes for finer spacing as one's needs become clearer over time.

[glenn bradley]

I went round. 3/4" oak dowel, tip dipped in plastic (not really necessary) and added 1/4" bullet catch to hold the dog at any height (100 for $6 from Lee Valley).

[Alan DuBoff]

Glenn,

Are those sized so they pressure fit in, or do you have to glue them also?

I'm gonna get some of those.

[Adam Cherubini]

I think this is a little like pins or tails first. Both are good and thoughtful workers can quibble endlessly.

I think the biggest difference is one you can easily add later and one you can't.

Lastly, I find dog holes and tail vises and pinching boards between dogs not so great. I greatly prefer a big square tapered/sprung planing stop at the left end. Mine is flush with the front bearer on my Nic bench and roughly 2"x2" in section. It's stiff as heck and can only be moved up and down with a mallet.

(you plane a slight taper in the block and beat it into the hole. Then you rip a kerf straight down about 1/3 from the left end down to the bench This becomes your spring. Then you beat the stop down until the kerf closes (you might get 1/4" down) then saw the kerf open again. Repeat until the stop can be beat flush with teh bench top. My beech stop is snug at every height.)

Adam

[Marcus Ward]

Hey Adam, you got a picture of this ingenious device?

[glenn bradley]

Glenn,

Are those sized so they pressure fit in, or do you have to glue them also?

I'm gonna get some of those.

They press in really snug to a 1/4" hole.

[Don C Peterson]

I think this is a little like pins or tails first. Both are good and thoughtful workers can quibble endlessly.

I think the biggest difference is one you can easily add later and one you can't.

Lastly, I find dog holes and tail vises and pinching boards between dogs not so great. I greatly prefer a big square tapered/sprung planing stop at the left end. Mine is flush with the front bearer on my Nic bench and roughly 2"x2" in section. It's stiff as heck and can only be moved up and down with a mallet.

(you plane a slight taper in the block and beat it into the hole. Then you rip a kerf straight down about 1/3 from the left end down to the bench This becomes your spring. Then you beat the stop down until the kerf closes (you might get 1/4" down) then saw the kerf open again. Repeat until the stop can be beat flush with teh bench top. My beech stop is snug at every height.)

Adam

Adam, I THINK I sorta get what you are saying and it sounds like just what I need. Like Marcus said, picture would be greatly appreciated though.

[Marcus Ward]

I get what you're saying now that I think about it a bit more. I'm trying to figure out where I could put one on my bench.