Why is Festool Planer $500 and Bosch $200

[Lyndon Graham]

Any justification for the higher price for the hand-held planer?

[Dennis Peacock]

Just a reminder here folks.....let's keep this civil and don't let this head in the direction that many of the tool threads head in.

[Brad Townsend]

From the number of posts, I will conclude you are new to this board and innocently asking a question, and not trying to poke a stick in a hornet's nest.:D

[Dennis Peacock]

Brad....you are correct....but as you know....there are some here who would love to poke a bit ya know. ;)

[John Bailey]

To reiterate Dennis' post, I like these threads because I get a lot of useful information, however, we often have to moderate. Please, keep the posts to the point and no bashing. Keep in mind two things: 1. It's not usually your opinion, but rather, how you express it. 2. Don't be offended, and if you are, don't offend. John

[Bill White]

That someone will pay the high price 'cause it is a Festool. I know that there are quality issues, but my old and trusty DeWalt 733 has NOT let me down yet. How come folks buy a Rolex when a Seiko will keep time just as well?
Don't misunderstand this post to be a slam on Festool. They are FINE tools for the serious/professional. I certainly don't make a living with my PC, DeWalt, Griz stuff, but my tools are maintained well to last.
Kinda like measuring wood to machine shop tolerances just 'cause ya can.
Remember....you asked.
Bill

[Bill Arnold]

On this type of issue, what I try to convey is that each person needs to determine their own price/value point. There is no question that Festool has done their homework and has a fine line of equipment.

In my case, I have to deal with two internal issues: 1)I'm cheap!, 2)LOML tells me to spend whatever to get the best tool I can. To me, the best is what is best for me; i.e., I'm a serious hobbyist and, if I can sell something along the way, I'm not turning down the dough!

If I could justify the cost, I'd gladly pay the cost for any line of A-1, top-of-the-line yadda-yadda. But, as I said, I'm frugal (well, I did say cheap, didn't I?). ;)

[John Gornall]

It's called "positioning" in marketing. Festool has decided to sell what is probably a somewhat higher quality product with a price that fits a certain buyer's profile. I can't speak for Festool but they probably expect to sell a few less but at a higher markup therefore maximizing their profit. Bosch however has thrown their lot into the great price competition probably expecting to make less per unit and make it up in quantity.

Interesting analogy of Rolex and Seiko. I have worn a Rolex for 39 years. My wife has worn Seiko. The Seiko keeps far better time than the Rolex but she has had to replace the Seiko about 6 times in those years whereas I'm still on the original Rolex. In 1969 the Rolex cost 210.00 and I bought it because it was the only one back in those days that actually stayed waterproof while working underwater day after day.

[Lyndon Graham]

From the number of posts, I will conclude you are new to this board and innocently asking a question, and not trying to poke a stick in a hornet's nest.:D

Correct, and new to woodworking also

The reason I ask, is that I love the optional "scalloping" heads Festool odders. But I am choking on the price.

[Justin Leiwig]

Why is a Ferrari more than a Ford Festiva? They are both cars right?


I was seriously miffed by how they could charge more than double on most of their stuff. But once you play with one tool...you will understand. Now I just have to wait to win the lottery to outfit my shop in Festool!

[Jesus Aleman]

Lyndon,

Yes, Festool has higher prices in the US. The prices of tools in Europe, for example, are 1.5x to 2x as much as in the US (Dewalt, Festools, the likes, etc.).

Festool is a European product that offers quality, accuracy, portability, and high efficiency dust extraction. Think in European terms were space is limited and work has to be performed on site, not at a spacious shop. They didn't change their product singificantly for the US market. On the other hand, NA manufacturers tend to modify their products. For example, Dewalt will offer dust extraction in their circular saw in Europe, but not in the US. To me this is important, to many is not. No knock on Dewalt. My th. planer and drives are Dewalt and work great.

I recently purchased a Festool saw and dust extractor. I had to let go of the TS and BS because needed to move the shop out of the basement into a 1 car garage that has a car in it every night, and I am developing a sensitivity to wood dust. Therefore, having a compact, portable, and dust efficient system was key to me. I did pay a premium but I got what I needed. Another thing, Festools are a quieter. This was a bonus for me (given my circumstances, I do my WW at night).

I've seen the Festool planer in action and the resulting surfaces are great and no airborne dust when hooked to the dust extractor. I used to own an electric handplaner (Makita) and the quality of the surface a bit lower, but the dust was uncontrollable even when hooked to DC.

My recommendation is that you ask around. Try the European and Australian forums (woodworker.net??). I believe the electric planer is more popular there. The Festoolownersgroup.com and talkfestool.com could also be good resources. Ultimately, you need to form your own opinion, because everyone will have their own opinion shaped (even biased) from their own experiences.

Since you are starting in WW, I will throw something else from my own experience. When I started I wanted to spend 300 on tools and build all these amazing project. It can be done, but it may take a lot of elbow grease. The quality of your projects will be a combination of your skill and judgment on using the right tools. Festool are very nice and value added tools, but they are not the only quality tools so then caught on it has to be Festool. Purchase based on your circumstances. High end tools do not guarantee success, cheap tools typically get replaced.


You need to look at this as a long term investment as well. Last year I finished my basement and spent about $2,500 on tools. I still own these, and they are payed for because I saved approx. $15,000 on the basement. There is no payback for any tool in the short term. You need to look at this long term, and build your collection slowly. You don't want to get caught on a 3 month fad and at the end have 5,000 worth of tools that you have no desire to use. I suggest you buy the tools based on the projects that you want to do, not the other way around.


Cheers,

JGA.

[tim rowledge]

It's worth remembering that making a similar item of (for example) 10% better quality/performance/whatever can cost massively (say for example 100%) more both to design and to make and to do appropriate QA post-manufacture, plus you will typical demand better support post-sale.

It's same whether it's Ford/Ferrari, HarborFreight/Festool, Dell/Apple, cheap ply/baltic ply, whatever.

[Jason White]

I've seen one in action. Amazing dust collection.



Any justification for the higher price for the hand-held planer?

[Chuck Tringo]

I wouldn't say the dust collection is a justifier for the price difference however...I used the Ridgid cordless handheld planer and got better than 90% (Id even say 95%....I didnt see a speck of dust in the air or on the ground) when I hooked it up to a Bord Blue shop vac.

[Peter Pedisich]

Where is the Festool made?

Where is the Bosch made?

If the Festool is made in Germany, and the Bosch in Switzerland, the comparison is fair.
If the Bosch is made in Malaysia or China, then it's perfectly clear to anyone who has tried to run a manufacturing business why there is a difference !

[Bryan Berguson]

Where is the Festool made?

Where is the Bosch made?

If the Festool is made in Germany, and the Bosch in Switzerland, the comparison is fair.
If the Bosch is made in Malaysia or China, then it's perfectly clear to anyone who has tried to run a manufacturing business why there is a difference !

I was very disappointed to find out that Bosch tools are now made in China as are Makitas. At least some are but I can't speak for all of them. Not sure about the Planers.

Bryan

[Neal Clayton]

marketing.

[Jim Becker]

Although I don't own the Festool planer, I have used/tested it in my own shop a few years ago when Bob Marino brought an SUV full of Festool products over for me to faddle with prior to a get-together of a number of local woodworkers.

While my personal needs don't require this particular tool, I have to tell you that I was extremely impressed with the quality and functionality. The interchangeable knife system for special effects, controllability/feel and dust extraction were notable for this tool. That said, I cannot compare it to the Bosch or any other portable planer as I've never used another one...

[Michael Wildt]

Hi,

I took it as a challenge and started reading about both. I didn't know what Bosch model you looked at, but I assume it is the 3365. My notes are only based on a quick look and with what was available on the web.

Cutting depth appears to be easier to set on Festool than the Bosch. I would be checking if the cutting depth is easy to replicate from setup to setup if it was me.

Planing depth is larger on Festool 9/64 versus 5/64.
Rabetting depth also appears to be better on the Festool due to the fact that one side is flat so it can go all the way up to the edge. Sounds like a nice feature, but again it depends on the task at hand.

Both appears to have a one knife design, automatically balanced. That sounds very nice. Festool is a angled blade (spiral cut ?) and the Bosch is straight cut. Festool has choice of different blades. I would look further into which one is easier to replace blades on if I was purchasing one, as well as which one makes the best finish cut. I do not have a jointer my self, but I would expect a perfect cut and would expect a handheld planer to do the same.

The Festool can be mounted up side down as a 'portable' jointer. Does not appear the Bosch can.

Both have dust collector attachment capability. Not sure if Bosch needs the adapter that is listed in the accessory list.

Now I'm far from an expert on this, but it appears to be two nice products. I only spent 10 min reading about the models and while one is more costly than the other it all depends on what task it is you need it for. I can see tasks where the Bosch is just fine and tasks where the Festool would be better.

Michael

[Dave Falkenstein]

Correct, and new to woodworking also...

I do not intend to be out of line, but... If you are new to woodworking, are you SURE you want/need a hand-held power planer? I have a Bosch and use it seldom. I have several Festool products, but have not considered buying a Festool planer because I would not use it often enough. Festool makes great tools, and they cost a lot more than many other brands.

[Jim Dailey]

I view a power planer as a really limited use tool...

And I owe two power planers; the first one I bought 30 years ago, this is a Rockwell block planer & the second was a Dewalt. Neither have dust collection & are the noisiest dam power tools you'll ever run. However for my "once leap decade" use my ears so far seem to stop ringing between uses... ;) But for these I would suggest you use in addition to ear protection a mask & eye protection to keep the air borne stuff out of your lungs & eyes :eek:

Maybe I'd upgraded to a higher quality unit if I was hanging door blanks all day but then again the last blank I hung I grabbed one of my Festool plunge saws & cut the bevel with more accuracy & speed than I could with any power planer I've used.

Both of the planers I have where bought for a specific job & paid for themselves based on a "single" job. In one case the material was too big to bring to the tool, the other the material had to be machined in place after it was assembled. If the material is suitable to bring to a jointer by virtue of the jointers longer bed you should get a straighter cut.

Hope this helps,
jim

[chris dub]

Festool seems to consistently offer: top end ease of use, accuracy, reduced set-up time, cut quality and enhanced dust collection to most other brands across its line of tools. Some of those benefits are slight improvements and some are more significant. But those are often the most valued features amongst power tool users. If you address the most important characteristics of your customers you charge a premium. How much of a premium? As much as they will let you get away with.

[peter de tappan]

I just checked the price of the Bosch on Coastal Tool's website and it was $129, a long way from $200.

[Per Swenson]

Hi all,

I own the 850, I own the Makita, and somewhere around here there is a
old PC. Now we are talking apples, oranges and peaches.
If you do not make a living in the woodworking business then you really don't need the 850. Though, if you do the price is more then justified.
The rebate capability, the rustic heads and the bench mount capability
combined with dust collection and precise controls shames the competition.
But, if you are going to use it only 4 times a year, then I believe your dollars are are better spent else where.
The PC, ( I really don't know where that is) I used solely for door work.
That tool was replaced by the TS55 and guide rail.
The Makita? Before the 850, was my go to tool for working rough sawn. No longer. It is relegated for the job of straightening out rough framing.
Its great for bringing studs and joists in to a truly flat plane and in that scenario who cares if there are chips on the floor.
So to sum up, the 850 is worth every nickle only if you use it.
Once a month? Get the Bosch.

If you care to see my review it can be found here (http://www.festooljunkie.com/catalog/downloads/dhtml_seo_tabs/Per-Swenson-From%20Rough%20Sawn%20To%20Workable.pdf)

Per

[John Thompson]

What Per Swenson said... if you are professional the FT is probably the best option. If you are not... the Bosch is fine. I am not a professional and have the Bosch. There is no problem adjusting the height and the tool works fine the few occasions I use it as I have hand planes that get most of my needs building furniture inside the shop.

Sarge..

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

because they can get it.

[Jon Grider]

My thought is not so much debating and justifying the additional cost of Festool vs. Bosch, but of your need for a handheld power planer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you don't need one as I don't know what kind of projects you have in mind, but to me a far more versatile basic tool, if you have the room would be a stationary jointer. For not too much more than the Festool, you could buy a new 8" Grizzly and from fleabay,a used Bailey bench plane.

[Ron Dunn]

I just bought the cheapest power planer I could find, to knock paint and other roughness off recycled timber before it gets anywhere near my jointer or saw. I paid around $40US, it has disposable blades, and has probably saved me a set of Tersa blades at over $100US already.

[Lyndon Graham]

My thought is not so much debating and justifying the additional cost of Festool vs. Bosch, but of your need for a handheld power planer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you don't need one as I don't know what kind of projects you have in mind, but to me a far more versatile basic tool, if you have the room would be a stationary jointer. For not too much more than the Festool, you could buy a new 8" Grizzly and from fleabay,a used Bailey bench plane.

I have a 6" Jet Jointer. I plan to glue up 3+ planks for an 18" wide shelf. The jointer helkps me initally, but what happens after the glue up?

And my 26" wide cabinet makers workbench. I will glue together multiple sections of Maple that glued up arte 3" x 12 ". My current jointer and 13" planer will help with each peice, but I still need to plane the 24" glue up flat.

Am I missing anything?

[Jon Grider]

I have a 6" Jet Jointer. I plan to glue up 3+ planks for an 18" wide shelf. The jointer helkps me initally, but what happens after the glue up?

And my 26" wide cabinet makers workbench. I will glue together multiple sections of Maple that glued up arte 3" x 12 ". My current jointer and 13" planer will help with each peice, but I still need to plane the 24" glue up flat.

Am I missing anything?


Well Lyndon, as the saying goes,there's more than one way to skin a cat. Most folks here have probably done wider glue ups than their jointer or planer or the lucky ones wide belt or drum sanders are wide. I build cabinets doors from glue ups and get by quite well without a machine capable of surfacing wide doors. The trick is in matching edges and careful glue ups. I usually need only a cabinet scraper to clean up the glue line,but occasionally the job requires a few strokes with a sharp hand plane. Whatever method works for you,though.

[Jim Becker]

I have a 6" Jet Jointer. I plan to glue up 3+ planks for an 18" wide shelf. The jointer helkps me initally, but what happens after the glue up?

And my 26" wide cabinet makers workbench. I will glue together multiple sections of Maple that glued up arte 3" x 12 ". My current jointer and 13" planer will help with each peice, but I still need to plane the 24" glue up flat.

Am I missing anything?

That's not a job for a powered planer like the Festool or the Bosch or similar...that's not really what the tool is designed for. You'll be better served by a few good hand planes in the long term for these tasks or by taking them to a cabinet shop and having them run the workpieces through a wide belt sander for a fee to level them.

More importantly, and especially for your shelf, care during your glue up of the panel should result in minimal need for "flattening" if your three pieces of stock were prepared well and you clamp them correctly while the glue is curing.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

That's not a job for a powered planer like the Festool or the Bosch or similar...that's not really what the tool is designed for
What Jim said...

I bought a GMC planer on closeout @ Lowes for a whopping $20.00 - simply because @ that price I couldn't pass it up.

I've used it 4 times - but - that's beside the point...

What's important is that I honestly believe I could wreck more damage with it than I could w/a Remignton 870! - w/out even trying.

[Larry Browning]

I would like to add my vote against the power hand plane for smoothing your glued up shelf. This not the tool for the job. AFAIK a power hand plane is really more of a hand held edge jointer. I have seen them used to quickly plane the edge of a door to get it to fit into the jamb better. Or to smooth the edge of a board. I am thinking that it would probably ruin your shelf by gouging it in some way, probably make it worse than better.
Most of the others have suggested using a scraper or hand plane to smooth the glue line seams in your shelf. I am going to suggest either a hand held belt sander or just a simple sanding block and elbow grease. Even a random orbit sander would do the job. Also, if this is a pretty long shelf, a biscuit joiner and a few biscuits will really help keep it aligned. And if you really must have a festool, get one of those nifty domino gizmos. I hear that they not only help with alignment, but they add strength to the joint as well.
My suggestion is to concentrate on edge alignment for the glue up process rather than smoothing out the mis-alignment after glue up. You will be amazed as to how well you can get your boards aligned if you try. It is then just a pretty simple task to get it absolutely perfect via a number of ways, scraping, hand planing, or sanding.

[Tom Godley]

Quite a number of years ago I purchased a large outdoor shed. When the guys delivered it and started to put it together they used a power planer on the 5/4 boards when they need to fit them together, also on the fitting of the double doors. It worked great -- and was fast. I could see the use -- I pick up a Dewalt unit.

I have built a lot of outdoor cedar walls/ partitions/ and benches around my pool area, and over the 15 years have had to replace and tweak many a board. The power planer is just a great tool for this job. It makes quick work of job that could obviously be done with a hand plane but the Dewalt is faster.

I have never thought of the tool as one for fine woodworking - Although I do not use it every day so I do not know what precision can be achieved.

As to Festool -- they make fine tools. The sanders and circular saws allow the hobbyist to achieve results that while attainable other ways are much easier. The ability to use a Festool sander/vac in areas where other tools would be spewing out all kinds of dust is valuable for the hobbyist and pro alike. Same for the ability of the Festool circular saw to allow the occasional hobbyist to rip plywood to a level that many could not achieve with a standard saw with out more practice.

This has been addressed regarding the new miter saw. The use of that saw by the professional doing custom cabinetry cutting expensive hardwoods is practical. For a part time homeowner without the fine skills -- it is probably overkill.

My 70+ neighbor always has a new Porsche - I always tell him that he likes to wash them more than to drive them.

Men and tools are the same way.

[Andrew Joiner]

You might have to change the thread title to: Why is Festool Planer $600 and Bosch $200?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=984839#poststop

[Lee DeRaud]

While my personal needs don't require this particular tool, I have to tell you that I was extremely impressed with the quality and functionality.Which brings up a question: I've always considered a handheld planer to be a "carpenter tool" (for trimming doors on the worksite and things like that) rather than a "woodworking tool". Is the Festool version suitable for a wider range of tasks than its competitors or is it just better at the same things? (Or neither, if that's the case.)

[Lee DeRaud]

My 70+ neighbor always has a new Porsche - I always tell him that he likes to wash them more than to drive them.Which brings to mind my favorite 90-year-old Porsche owner, Sam Maloof. I'm told he's on a first-name basis with most of the local cops.

[Jim Becker]

Which brings up a question: I've always considered a handheld planer to be a "carpenter tool" (for trimming doors on the worksite and things like that) rather than a "woodworking tool". Is the Festool version suitable for a wider range of tasks than its competitors or is it just better at the same things? (Or neither, if that's the case.)

Well, in general it would normally be tasked the same way as a carpentry tool, IMHO, but the fact that it can be turned over and used with a simple fence for small part jointing is nice. Dust/chip collection is very good as you might expect. Further, they have several knives available to apply special effects, such as a scrub plane look for things like beams, etc. While my impression of this tool from using it was extremely positive, I'd be lying if I said it has a place in my future tool acquisition plans. It think that aside from it's excellent quality and features, it's going to appeal mostly to those who do a lot of work on-site for things like scribing and other adjustments, especially when used with the dust collection as another component of "the system". In other words, I suspect that most buyers are already going to have a lot of other Festool products and add this to their bag accordingly.

[Per Swenson]

Jim left out the fact that it is the only planer you can cut rabbets with as the blade is flush to one side.
For us , making the back cuts in raised panels is no longer a chore comprised of
separate shaper cutters.
This saves a lot of time in set up.
Time is money
Per

[Jim Becker]

Ooh....thanks for that addition, Per. I plumb forgot about the rebate capability!

[Lyndon Graham]

That's not a job for a powered planer like the Festool or the Bosch or similar...that's not really what the tool is designed for. You'll be better served by a few good hand planes in the long term for these tasks or by taking them to a cabinet shop and having them run the workpieces through a wide belt sander for a fee to level them.

More importantly, and especially for your shelf, care during your glue up of the panel should result in minimal need for "flattening" if your three pieces of stock were prepared well and you clamp them correctly while the glue is curing.

Before I read this, I went out yesterday and bought the Festool. The good news is that I have not used it and it is going back. The idea of pushing a #7 smoothing plane is not appealing so I hoped an electric planer would be a replacement. Since that is not the case, I guess I can't justify one.

Thanks