So, you always wanted to build handsaws...the Pictorial

[Alan DuBoff]

For those following my handsaw build, I put together a master pictorial of the making.

This saw was made for Rich Tessaroni, in lieu of the motor on my Nichols mill which I used to make this saw. Thanks Rich, and Happy Holidays!

You can find it at this linky pic.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=102709&d=1228398438 (http://www.softorchestra.com/traditional-toolworks/saws/making-saws/)

[Daren K Nelson]

That is great stuff Allen :D...since you have a retoother you can make pull saws too. The teeth are set and filed a little different (virtually no set, alot of bevel) I made one out of piece a broken bandmill blade, works great for trimming dowels and the many other things you would use a pull saw for.
That was off topic kinda, not to derail your thread, nice looking saw and good pictorial. Well done

[Alan DuBoff]

Thanks for the kind words. Would like to see your pull saw. Please create a thread and post some pics, I think that could create some interesting ideas.

I haven't thought about making a pull saw with the Foley, although I have thought about doing a saw Japanese style before...I like to blacksmith.:)

[Ron Brese]

I really enjoyed the pictorial Alan, thanks for posting.

Ron Brese

[Alan DuBoff]

I really enjoyed the pictorial Alan, thanks for posting.

Ron Brese
Glad you enjoyed it Ron, those split-nuts are from Georgia! (rarebear made them:) )

A lot of things are still difficult for me, but getting easier, as I do more.

Building tools is challenging in some cases, and the fit/finish is something I struggle with.

[Ron Brese]

Alan as compared to making furniture, tools are quite a different pursuit. You are still striving for something that is visually pleasing to behold but also it has to function to a higher degree than a piece of furniture, as in it has to perform work. The flow from wood to metal in these type tools is expected to be seamless and as you said that is the very challenging part. It's a very different yet quite intriguing sort of work don't you think?

Ron Brese

[Tony Zaffuto]

Alan,

Thanks for the pictorial! I think you need to do a similar pictorial on your whole shop, though! Many of us would be very interested!

T.Z.

[Ray Gardiner]

Building tools is challenging in some cases, and the fit/finish is something I struggle with.

Invisible defects.

Nice work Alan, I see nothing wrong with your fit/finish, you are probably suffering from being too close.. I find that when you make something, you are always acutely aware of the little things that didn't quite work as well as you wanted, the super fine detail, that slight scratch that you can only see if you shine a light just there, and look from this angle, the slight rounding over of an edge that you **really** wanted to be crisp... I have the same problem, whenever I look at something I made, I only see the defects.


The good news is, no-one else can see them. Wait a few months and then take another look.

Regards Ray

[Alan DuBoff]

Alan as compared to making furniture, tools are quite a different pursuit. You are still striving for something that is visually pleasing to behold but also it has to function to a higher degree than a piece of furniture, as in it has to perform work. The flow from wood to metal in these type tools is expected to be seamless and as you said that is the very challenging part. It's a very different yet quite intriguing sort of work don't you think?
It's a different type of challenge, and I have always liked challenges. I often wonder if I would enjoy it as much if I was doing this as my full time job, and I attribute the fact that it is my hobby which keeps me so fascinated with it. Ultimately, I would like to build a timber frame home for my family, as something I can leave for them. Making tools kinda just surfaced as I pursued this dream. The dot-bomb put a damper on the timber frame dream, but it is still in my mind...Maybe one day I'll be able to build that dream, but in the meantime building tools are like small dreams for me. :)

This is the first tool going out, it was made for a friend who traded me a motor for my mill. I hope he enjoys it, I know there are flaws, as I pointed out...but I know I shouldn't do that...I expect to provide the quality of tool that I would buy for myself. It is hard to meet that level of quality in a home shop, but still I strive for it. It is not out of the realm of these types of tools, as you certainly know, and as I refine making saws, I suspect my skills will continue to get better.

Invisible defects.

Nice work Alan, I see nothing wrong with your fit/finish, you are probably suffering from being too close..
Well, I don't point all of them out, but there are some there.

For instance, my handles are not as finished and polished as some of the other handles, I akin it to a Kernov plane, they have a handcrafted character about them, and my handles are similar to me. I leave many of the scratches in the wood, from the rasp or rifflers, to me it is a handcrafted quality that I do like.

I do agree on being acutely aware of the small problems/blemishes, just that I strive for the same quality I would expect to receive in such a tool for myself.

The good news is, no-one else can see them. Wait a few months and then take another look.
I am not unhappy with the saw at all, but this is the first one I won't be able to look at in a few months...it's going to someone else's shop! That is good in itself, I'll make a pair like this for myself, out of bronze of course...;) With bronze I will be able to use a slightly thinner stock. This is 1/4" thick, 5/8" deep, for bronze I will do 1/4" thick, 1/2" deep. Bronze will work at that size, IMO.

Tony,

I do have quite a bit of galleries, just don't have them organized in any central page for my shop, that's my main problem. One day...one day...:rolleyes:

[Alan DuBoff]

Oh, I'm sick...the life of a saw maker...it sucks...:(

I was really putting this saw through it's paces, gotta make sure it can withstand the vigors of a galoot!

Looks like I get to design a new handle for it...:-/

What can I say...didn't even notice until after I put the saw down and walked away, when I went back I saw what had happened.

I think this means it needs longer/larger cheeks.

Oh well, the life of a saw makers sucks...I remember Mike Wenzloff once saying he had a pile of scrap handles once...now I know where they come from...

I like the length, but the handle obviously can't withstand the force, I'm gonna do a new one with larger cheeks...:o

Let me be the first to say, "I SUCK!" ;)

[Jim Koepke]

I haven't thought about making a pull saw with the Foley, although I have thought about doing a saw Japanese style before...I like to blacksmith.:)

Couldn't you just put the handle on the other end to get a pull saw?

Ducking under the bench now.

BTW, nice saw.

jim

[Ray Gardiner]

Outch!

I feel your pain..

I just threw away two handles, that didn't turn out as I hoped. One, I over cut the slot for the brass back, the other I chipped out when I was doing the split nuts.. you just have to suck it in and make another one. It makes it all the more satisfying when it all comes together just right.

Regards Ray

PS. Maybe with the re-design of the handle, you need to go to 3 screws?

[Alan DuBoff]

Jim,

Yeah, it was a nice saw, just needs a new handle now...:rolleyes:

There's worse things in life I 'spose...

Ray, just missed your post, but yeah, I am sucking it in...that's why I SUCK! ;)

I will indeed go to 3 screws...but it needs to be longer cheeks also, to hold more of the blade.

I was really running it through it's paces though, but it should be able to take it. Hickory, Hard Maple, and Purple Heart. I think it's the Purple Heart that did it, I was cutting quite a bit, about 6 crosscuts, that stuff is like purple cement. The Hickory is tough also.

Still, gotta be able to handle it...(intentional pun :D )

I think it was those double-double nibs...maybe they cursed me...*lol*

[Brian Ward]

Ouchies. Well, the next one will always be better--always is.

[Alan DuBoff]

PS. Maybe with the re-design of the handle, you need to go to 3 screws?
Yep, this new design is gonna solve this once and for all...

I'm adding a nose to the new handle, and will pin it through the back with a split-nut much like the Peace saws did. I think the pin through the back up at the nose is actually a good design in that regard.

When life spittles on 'ya, just spittle back!;)

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Bummer Alan!

I don't think with a slotted back one needs to overcome the failing of a Peace (others used the handle bolt through the back too including Disston) by pinning the blade through the back at the toe. They failed for a few reasons, but mainly the leverage against the back's mortise when either the handle loosened and or the back was moved down at the toe.

As long as there is a good fit of the handle, bolts through the blade, and the back in the mortise, a slotted back won't bugger up a handle.

Also, the two or three bolts thing. Again, with a good fit of the bolts through the holes in the blade and handle, two bolts is as good as three.

Take care, Mike

[Alan DuBoff]

Bummer Alan!

I don't think with a slotted back one needs to overcome the failing of a Peace (others used the handle bolt through the back too including Disston) by pinning the blade through the back at the toe. They failed for a few reasons, but mainly the leverage against the back's mortise when either the handle loosened and or the back was moved down at the toe.

As long as there is a good fit of the handle, bolts through the blade, and the back in the mortise, a slotted back won't bugger up a handle.

Also, the two or three bolts thing. Again, with a good fit of the bolts through the holes in the blade and handle, two bolts is as good as three.

Take care, Mike
Mike,

It is possible I didn't have it tightened enough, or that it twisted while in use, that I am not certain as I didn't notice until I walked back after taking a break.

I have the larger handle cut out, and made the cheeks larger and planning to have 3 nuts, but I was thinking like you the first handle in that 2 would be fine, but it split out. There is another possibility that the rear nut was not fully inside the steel, when I punched them the rear one was slightly hanging out. I've seen saws like that before though, and they seem to hold ok, maybe since this is such a large blade, it just didn't secure it well.

Either way, this is an opportunity for me to try making a handle and drill/mortise before I do any of the shaping, like you suggested, because that make sense to me.

I just got it cut out and started to shape the edge so I can slot it and mortise the top, then I'll shape the handle after I get it all assembled.