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View Full Version : Southern Yellow Pine-A Tense Situation



Peter Quinn
12-03-2008, 7:48 PM
I work in a cabinet and millwork shop that specializes in hardwood products. We make a wide range of things from flooring to custom furniture. I'm in between more extended jobs and currently assigned to small custom molding runs and ASAP orders. I looked at my stack of job cards for the day and....oh no, SYP Nosing and Cumaru stair treads! I figure the Cumaru is way to heavy to start the day with, so I decide to start with the pine.

Nosing is easy enough to make. For any that aren't familiar with it, it forms the edge of a flooring system, usually for a second floor balcony next to a stair system. This order was for 1" X 5 1/4" nosing with a bull-nose, then 1 1/4" at full thickness, then it drops to 3/4" thickness to match the flooring. For long runs we make it on a big molder, for short runs we bull-nose two edges of a board twice the finished width on a shaper, dado the center on a TS with a power feed, and rip to split it for two pieces. Simple stuff.

So it takes 30 minutes to shape and dado the boards, 45 minutes to clean the pitch from that nasty yellow pine off the saw and dado set, a half hour to clean the sticky shavings from the saw cabinet and DC lines. I hate SYP, wish I had started with the cumaru at this point. Last step, rip the boards to split them.

I rip the first three boards quick and simple; our cabinet saws have no guards, no splitters, big out feed tables and push blocks. None of that pesky safety equipment to slow down production. :rolleyes:The fourth board gives me pause. This one has bowed a bit over its width from the 1/4" dado and has a few cracks on one end that set off little warning bells in my head, not sure what the warning was yet, but I grabbed a second guy to help guide this one through the saw. Quicker than setting up a feather board.

I'm about 7' into ripping a nine foot board, my helper is now at the out feed end just sort of guiding as I push, getting ready to catch the wood as it exits the blade when BOOM in a flash the board seems to explode with great force, both sides of the cut bow radically and grab the back of the blade hard as the side against the fence starts to burn against the front of the blade, and the board splits randomly along the two feet not yet through the blade.

The other guy held on to the board for all he was worth, I bumped the saw off with my knee while holding my end down, no panicking but nerves on full alert now. I have seen some pretty radical releases of tension before, but it always expresses it self from the beginning of a cut. This one went 7' through the blade perfectly straight then exploded with a pop that could be heard above the saws noise and brought the foreman running from the other room to see what was going on. When we pulled it off the saw what had been two straight rips for the first 7' had bowed almost three inches over their 9' length. Scary stuff.

So please be careful out there guys. No injuries from this incident other than some mangled wood and frayed nerves. Not sure a splitter would have held back the explosion I witnessed, but some kick back pawls would have been a comfort. Sure glad I wasn't ripping this one alone.

John Schreiber
12-03-2008, 8:55 PM
The price is right on SYP, but most everything else is wrong. I'm just finishing up a SYP workbench and I wouldn't do it again.

Von Bickley
12-03-2008, 9:51 PM
SYP is a PITA..... My brother is a retired forester and everybody knows that foresters love all trees. His opinion of SYP is that it's O.K. for making paper. :D

Michael Conner
12-03-2008, 9:55 PM
I like working SYP as I think that heart pine is some of the prettiest wood going. I have never had tension in the wood like reported above, but I have seen wood move in an unbelievable fashion when milling off of the log. The thing I hate about SYP is the sap. That is tough to deal with.

Glad you didn't get hurt.

Chris Ricker
12-03-2008, 10:05 PM
Glad you are OK, Peter. Sounds like a close call!

Hank Knight
12-03-2008, 10:10 PM
I grew up with SYP. We built everything out of it from rowboats to tree houses. It's junk wood and nasty to work. This whole SYP craze, started by Chris Schwartz with his workbench, has been amusing to me. If you have maple or other decent hardwood available, why in the world would you go looking for SYP? The slight difference in the cost, if there is any difference, isn't worth the hassle and mess.

P.S. Glad you're all right, Peter. Sounds like a scary situation.

Charles Seehuetter Panama City
12-04-2008, 8:55 AM
Peter, Thanks for sharing this experience and I'm glad you were not hurt. I use SYP a lot to build furniture, mainly because here is northern Florida it's about the cheapest wood we can find and hardwoods are hard to find and VERY expensive. I have never had anything like that happen but will keep a closer eye on it from now on. I always use my splitter and guard so maybe it won't.

102710

102711

Chuck

John Thompson
12-04-2008, 10:02 AM
Tension wood (?) and was probably still wet and not dried properly before it saw the TS. I have had no problems either but I do let it dry properly in the rack before taking a shot. I have cut wet SYP and yep.. it's a real booger when severed. Not real nice to blade teeth either with the pitch.

Sarge..

Keith Beck
12-04-2008, 10:18 AM
Glad to hear that you and your assistant are both okay.

I've learned that you always need to be on guard when dealing with SYP.

My experience... When we moved into our home, the previous owners had installed some pine shelving in the garage. I removed the shelving when I was converting the garage to my shop and figured I'd re-use it for some other stuff. As I was ripping down one of the 10" wide pine shelves, the off-cut started curling back towards me - and it was probably 1" to 1 1/2" wide! And this was on wood that had been in use for at least 15 years, so it wasn't wet! Scary stuff!:eek:

Keith

Neal Clayton
12-04-2008, 11:02 AM
i've seen some similar things in the process of reproducing my old heart pine moldings. last one like that split with a power fed router cutting a rabbet. no obvious flaws, and every time i tried to cut off the split and feed it through the router again, it split again. no apparent reason why.

when you get a sap pocket heated up that's also near a surface crack you can get those boards to do all sorts of 'interesting' things ;).

Chris Padilla
12-04-2008, 11:07 AM
"This thread is (almost) worthless without pics!!" ;)

Scary stuff, Peter...glad no one was hurt.

Wood: a fickle medium! :D

Hank Knight
12-04-2008, 11:58 AM
"This thread is (almost) worthless without pics!!" ;):D


Yeah, Peter! Why didn't you turn loose your end of the board and take some pics of you buddy holding the other end?

Peter Quinn
12-04-2008, 8:01 PM
"This thread is (almost) worthless without pics!!" ;)

Scary stuff, Peter...glad no one was hurt.

Wood: a fickle medium! :D

Sorry no pics of the puddle I left on the floor. :D I wound up UPS ing that stuff this morning to Long Island, NY. Good riddence. The stuff was dry, all KD stair tread stock we sourced from a local lumber yard as my boss doesn't deal normally in soft woods. Maybe case hardned?

The floors in my house are SYP, vertical grain, old heart wood. I love them, long lengths (18'), pretty hard. The guy who refinished my floors when I bought this old place did not love them. He usually deals with oak and maple. He called me half way through to talk about the 'estimate' as he had to charge more given his sander was clogging every 200SF and he had gummed up more belts than he had ever seen before. Not a happy man. !00 years old (the floor, not the man) and the stuff was still giving him grief!

Neal Clayton
12-04-2008, 9:36 PM
you should see that stuff when it catches fire peter. a welder a couple years back in new orleans set the dryads st. YMCA on fire while welding some roof supports in. they were ~12x12 beams, about 150 years old or so. made the prettiest 30 foot tall blue flame you've ever seen...that couldn't be put out. it was like an oil fire, any amount of water just made steam and more heat. the fire dept. stood there and watched it burn for a few hours, and sprayed down the smoldering ashes, couldn't do anything else with it.

Peter Quinn
12-04-2008, 10:02 PM
Sounds beautiful and horrifying at the same time. I hope never to see my own yellow pine burn!

Simon Dupay
12-04-2008, 11:40 PM
way not just glue a 1 1/4" x 5/16" strip on a 3/4" board to make a nosing? (that how we do it at work)

Steve Clardy
12-05-2008, 1:44 PM
I used to rip a lot of 1x12's several years ago for use in rustic furniture.
#2 and 3 grade.

Several times I thought I had filled my pants :eek: when one of those boards would bow and snap apart

Richard M. Wolfe
12-05-2008, 3:41 PM
Cut enough of anything and something different will happen...disaster or not. Several years ago I was ripping in half a white pine board about six feet long and ten inches wide. I had gotten about 3/4 through the cut and there was a "bam!" like someone had shot a 22 in the shop. The cutoff side of the board split starting at the saw kerf and jumped off the saw table, landing about three feet away on the floor. Not long ago a friend had a pecan board clamp down on the saw blade about three inches into the cut and he was afraid he was going to ruin the blade working on getting it to turn loose

paul dyar
12-07-2008, 4:09 PM
Have had this to happen, but not to that extent. That sounds extreem. Some trees have a lot of stress on them, and if they are milled and stickered as soon as they are cut, they can retain the stress. Then when you rip them, they releas the stress.
Most of us don't amit it, but we don't use the guard on the ts.

paul