What does your live oak look like?

[Jamie Buxton]

Chris Padilla's thread about oak varieties reminds me of a question I'd like to ask of people who don't live in California: "What does your live oak look like?"

"Live Oak" seems to be common name which gets applied to different trees. I'm wondering if the live oak we have here in California is similar to the trees called live oak in Texas or on the East Coast. Our California Live Oaks are evergreen, not deciduous. The leaves look much more like Holly than Oak. That it, the leaves don't have lobes, and most of them do have little spikes on the edges. The growth habit of the tree is generally pretty gnarly; 16-foot straight mill logs just don't happen. The lumber has the open pores of red oak; you can blow through a short section of it.

So, Southerners or East Coasters, does my live oak sound like yours?

Jamie

[Jim Becker]

There is a lot of "live oak" where my parents live in central Florida, and if I'm recalling clearly, the leaves are small and oblong...something like a Chinese holly. Some of the trees are truely impressive being very large with a hugh spread. Definitely a "shade tree"!!

[Ken Garlock]

HI Jamie. When we lived in Plano, we had two Live Oaks in the front yard. I would guess them to be 25 to 30 years old and about 40+ feet tall. I guess you could call them gnarly in that the trunk was only about 8 ft long and the branches just went everywhere randomly. If you look carefully, they are deciduous except that they don't "decid" until spring when other trees are getting their new leaves. On the whole they are a good shade tree, but you need to keep the canopy thinned out or a Texas ice storm will cause you havoc. The leaves are small, about the size of your thumb and are rather leathery. Oh yes, the branches are tough too, you need to be careful when pruning not to get hurt.

We have planted several in our backyard at our new home....

I almost forgot, there is one HUGE Live Oak in the courtyard of the Alamo. The branches have to be propped up with good size planks. It is probably wider than it is tall.

Hope this helps :)

[Todd Burch]

The ones around my area (gulf coast Texas) sound similar to the others. Short trunks, long, sprawling limbs that often sag to the ground. Trunks around here get enormous. It's very common to have a trunk 3 feet diameter plus, and sometimes much larger.

The wood is fairly yellow in color, often with a swirl or curl to the grain. It finishes nicely.

[Michael Barry]

The Live Oaks here in South Florida can be described in much the same way as in Texas and California. Small leaves that look more like holly than the oaks from up north. I have four on my property and they are awesome shade trees. My only other shade tree I have is a yellow tabieuia which is a relatively fragile tree but blooms in a spectaular fashion for two weeks or so in March. The entire tree is covered in brilliant yellow flowers. The oaks are extremely hard and dense. I haven't used any as lumber to build any furniture but I did try to turn some that I got from a neighbor. It was pretty difficult to work with. It doesn't just repel cannonballs but lathe tools as well!

[Chuck Wintle]

This may be a dumb question but what is the difference between a "live oak" and an ordinary oak tree. How did they get the name "live oak". When we visited the USS Constitution last summer the guide made a reference to live oak being used in the construction of it.

[George Summers]

Charles -

The live oak gets its name because the leaves don't all fall at once, old leaves fall after new leaves come out so that the tree is never bare.

http://www.sfrc.ufl.edu/4h/Live_oak/liveoak.htm

George

[Jamie Buxton]

This may be a dumb question but what is the difference between a "live oak" and an ordinary oak tree. How did they get the name "live oak". When we visited the USS Constitution last summer the guide made a reference to live oak being used in the construction of it.

Charles --

That's one of the references I've heard which lead to my question. I too have heard that the hull of Old Ironsides is "live oak". That would be nearly impossible with California live oak. Ship building timbers need to be long, and you just don't get that from our tree.

Jamie

[Chris Padilla]

Well, darn it, Jamie. After all that description, I'd have to say that I DO NOT have a live oak tree in my back yard nor is live oak the prominant oak tree in our Thousand Oaks Park neighborhood.

I will take some pictures and post to this thread so you can see the type of oak tree we have. I have heard it called Heritage Oak so there is yet another name tossed into the oak tree name gathering.

My oak tree (and the neighborhood's) lose all their leaves in the winter. The leaf is what I would consider a typcial oak leaf. Pics coming...we'll see....

[Todd Burch]

Jamie, if you ever seen the live oaks from Georgia, it will put your mind at rest!!

[Mac McAtee]

"I too have heard that the hull of Old Ironsides is "live oak". "

The ribs and frames are of Live Oak. Not the planking. Back when the ships were wood and the men were iron, when you built a ship, you sent a crew to the coast of Georgia, North Florida and South Carolina in a ship. The crew took full size templates of all the ribs, knees, stem and stern post for your ship. They went ashore on one of the sea islands and held a template against Live Oak trees until they found a natural bend that a particular piece could be cut out of without needing to bend it or to cut across the grain. This made all the framework of the ship having the wood grain parallel to the shape of the wood. They cut that particular piece down, squared it up into almost finish dimension and loaded it on the ship. Then they selected Southern Yellow Pine trees for the masts and cut them. They cut the entire ships frame and masts, then sailed back to the yard where the ship was to be made, discharged their cargo and the ship wrights then started putting together the puzzle.

Before the American Revolution all of the Southern Yellow Pine and Live Oak along the East Coast was the property of the Crown and it was illegal to cut one down unless you were working on behalf of the British Government or had a permit from them to cut. The idea being to deprive France and Spain of the resource and keep the King's Navy the strongest in the world.

[Jamie Buxton]

Well, darn it, Jamie. After all that description, I'd have to say that I DO NOT have a live oak tree in my back yard nor is live oak the prominant oak tree in our Thousand Oaks Park neighborhood.

I will take some pictures and post to this thread so you can see the type of oak tree we have. I have heard it called Heritage Oak so there is yet another name tossed into the oak tree name gathering.

My oak tree (and the neighborhood's) lose all their leaves in the winter. The leaf is what I would consider a typcial oak leaf. Pics coming...we'll see....

Chris --

Well, I said that Live Oak is the dominant native tree for 100 miles around your home. In urban San Jose there are now lots of non-native trees. Get out of the urbanized area, and you'll see lots and lots of live oaks. I'd even argue that despite the imports, the live oak is still the predominant tree for 100 miles around you. Big as it is, the urbanized area is a small percentage of that circle. The only area where oaks are not dominant is the narrow strip along the coast where redwoods reign.

In my hearing, the word "heritage", when applied to a tree, means that it is old. Some zoning boards assign special protected status to old trees so that developers don't just mow them down.

If you want to learn more about the California oaks, there is a nice book called "Oaks of California", published by Cachuma Press. There's a whole team of authors, but the lead one is Bruce Pavlik. It is mostly about the trees, and not much about the lumber.

Jamie

[James Carmichael]

Sounds pretty much like our North Texas Live Oaks. I've never looked at the wood, but the leaves are small like a Holly and the trunk doesn't grow very tall and they don't shed their leaves. I believe they are grouped with the red oaks.

I have a not-so-complimentary name for them: bird magnets. Because they're not deciduous, they're very popular for landscaping around here, especially in urban areas, along with holly shrubs. This feature also makes them very popular roosts with the non-native grackles and starlings who will leave an unholy mess underneath and give you the feeling you're in an Alfred Hitchcock movie, (don't ever plant a live oak next to your driveway or be tempted to park your car under one during winter months).

[Jerry Todd]

Jamie,
This is what my Live Oak tree looks like. I reside in North Florida about an hour from Ga. I have been told that the Georgia Sate Tree is the Live Oak. Will also post a picture of the leaves. Our house and work shop in the background.

[Bob Nieman]

Chris --
In my hearing, the word "heritage", when applied to a tree, means that it is old.
Jamie

"Heritage" is also one off the most popular cultivars of Quercus virginiana, a huge live oak native to the southeast (but surprisingly well adapted to the southwest deserts). They grow faster than most oaks and make excellent (dense) shade trees, given enough room. Can't speak for the lumber properties, but I am fairly sure it is the same species they used for Old Ironsides.

Bob (1st post to the forums, beginning woodworker, but knows trees fairly well)

[Chris Padilla]

Welcome, Bob!! Glad you could join the ranks! :)

Here are some shots of the oak tree in my back yard. Ignore the yard that has yet to get its new sod! :)

[Mike Kelly]

Jaime, I was surprised to find so many spiecies of "live oaks". The California folks are probably refering to Coast Live Oak, Encina, Scientific Name: Quercus agrifolia Née. The southern guys are looking at Southern Live Oak
Scientific Name: Quercus virginiana Mill.

Here in central Texas we have the stunted version of the Quercus virginiana due to less rainfall. It has become very susceptable to Oak Wilt in this area. It will kill a full grown tree in a very short time.

Here are some interesting links for Oaks if anyone is interested:

http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/Fagaceae/Quercus.html
http://www.naturehills.com/new/product/trees_subcategories.aspx?catname=Oak
http://www.trees-online.com/types_of_trees/oak_trees.shtml
http://www.about-oak-trees.com/index2.htm
http://www.floridata.com/ref/q/querc_v.cfm
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/natives/quercusvirginiana.htm