Best way to flatten panels

[dan lemkin]

Hi,

I want to glue up a bunch of panels to use in projects for tabletops, and sides of chests. I am getting a planer, so I will start with jointed and planed boards of equal thickness ranging from 6 to 10" width and around 3-5ft for most initial projects. I was thinking of biscuit jointing the planks prior to glue up.

Can you recommend the best way to flatten the longitudinal transition points and remove the residual glue that leaches out? Is a plane the best tool for this? If so, can someone recommend a versatile size and good brand for this purpose. A reference for planing technique woul;d also be appreciated.

I had a misadventure with a 3" belt sander which rapidly dug grooves in the boards. I do have a 6" random orbit that I can finish up with, but wanted to know if there is a better first step.

thanks
dan

[Dave Stuve]

Hi Dan,

This is what I do, although I'm self-taught so what do I know, but it does work for me. ;-)

I've never used biscuits for alignment, but I bet they'd work great. If I've got a really long panel, I just glue joint at a time (glue two boards, wait an hour, add a board, etc.) That way I can focus on getting a nice flat joint.

The first thing I do is use a scraper to remove most of the glue globs.

I use a 3x24 belt sander 100 grit, cutting diagonally one way and then the other (if straight up is 0 degrees, then 45 degrees, and then -45.) Then I go once with the grain. This does most of the flattening for me, and you'll get the technique down pretty quickly.

Then I use ROS at 120 grit (same: -45, 45, then with grain), and again at 150. That gives me nice and flat / smooth boards.

Pros use a drum sander, or a wiiiiiiide belt sander, and some use a planer but that never seems to work for me. (chip-out problems.)

Dave

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Dan, with panel glueups I try to do two things to prevent headaches down the line. One is to dry fit and clamp the panel to see that it doesn't bow one way or the other (it usually takes clamps on both sides). I like to lay a metal straight edge of some kind across the panel after glueups to check for flatness. The other is regard to glue squeezeout. I use original Ti9tebond so any fresh squeezeout can be thoroughly wiped down. Or don't do anything and let the squeezeout form beads and after they are dry knock and scrape them off with a chisel. I find that any 'in-between' treatment like wiping squezeout off with your finger results in glue smeared into the wood that's a lot more trouble to get completely removed after it dries. After you think you have the glue completely removed wet the glue line with alcohol or thinner and check for any you missed. There are clues now that have an additive that you can check like this with a black light, although I've never used them.

[glenn bradley]

I'm pretty much in line with Richard with a bit of Dave's method salted in. Biscuits can help with alignment but not so much as I would bother. If I had a known difficult alignment job I might use a long, snug fitting spline but, I difress.

Like Dave, I may not do the entire panel at once but, I definitly do a dry fit, like Richard. I let the squeeze out dry 30 to 45 minutes depending on the weather. I then run a chisel along to clean it off; if required I follow up with a cabinet scraper or, if I've left it too long, one of these (http://www.labsafety.com/search/*IVES*/55654/) from Lowe's.

[Chip Lindley]

The above two contributors have covered your query quite well. As for glueup, if your boards are already jointed flat and straight, you are well on your way to success. Nice straight boards clamp together nicely with a minimum of work. Pipe clamps do tend to pinch the work, and cause it to bow upward in the middle when excess pressure is applied. Clamps can be applied alternately on top and bottom of the panel to even out these tendencies. *Just enough* clamp pressure is something one learns from experience. I have seen kits to make your own hardwood clamps that sandwich the work between top and bottom cauls to keep the panel in alignment.

As you know, the use of a hand-held belt sander for smoothing panels is *iffy* at best. Results improve with use of a sanding frame as supplied with many brands. The SF negates possibility of tipping the sander and gouging your work, and also controls depth of the sanding action.

I advocate a drum sander to flatten panels before final sanding. Unless one enjoys time spent doing the work by hand, a DS allows you to use your time for other things. They are expensive compared to other solutions, but speed and consistency has its costs! Once you've made a dead-flat panel with no imperfections, final sanded with a ROS to 120 grit, anything less will not do!

[Frank Drew]

As you know, the use of a hand-held belt sander for smoothing panels is *iffy* at best. Results improve with use of a sanding frame as supplied with many brands. The SF negates possibility of tipping the sander and gouging your work, and also controls depth of the sanding action.



A sanding frame is a really great accessory, and once you've used one you'd be very reluctant to freehand belt sand on any wood you care for. It makes portable sanders true finesse tools.

[Thomas Pender]

I use a cheap scraper I bought from Sears to scrape off the glue while it is just short of hard - it peels off nicely. You can also use a slightly damp sponge to wipe joints. I have also use a slotted screwdriver and wipe it off.

If the panel has ridges, that is what a Jointer Plane and Smoothing Planes are all about. Lots of effort (even sweat), but the look is timeless. I use a LV bevel up Jointer and Smoother and if necessary a tuned Jack (or even a Scrub) if there is much material to be removed. The key is that this takes practice - lots, and you have to keep the blades super sharp (another skill), plane at an angle, keep the panel tight on the bench and be careful not to tear out gouges (easy to do). Another tip is to keep the shavings thin - best place to get advice on this is the Neanderthal forum - those guys will wax on about proper technique.

Alternatively, find a big shop with a super wide planer (37" are not uncommon) or sander and carry your peice over there. Usually for a modest fee and in a few minutes you have perfection.

Bottom line: I have never been able to glue wood perfectly - sometimes it just takes a little sanding, but other times, regardless of dry fitting, it just turns out to be a challenge.

[David Giles]

Sometimes those jointed edges are off just a hair and it pulls a hump or bow into the panel on glue-up. After dry fitting each board, make one more pass across the jointer with each edge. Place the boards together, top to top or bottom to bottom. This ensures a perfect flat surface when the boards are glued together.

[Rod Sheridan]

I find that biscuits are more of a problem than a help.

If your material has been properly jointed and planed, you line up the board faces by gently tapping with your fist before you fully tighten the clamps.

With a biscuit, if one is even slightly off, you cannot fix the alignment.

I then wait until the glue is at the very stiff plastic stage, and clean up the squeeze out with a card scraper.

Then I level the glue up with a scraper or scraper plane.

If your prep work is accurate, the panel comes out of the clamps almost perfect, a scraper is often all that's required for surface work.

Scraping or planing normally produces a superior finish than sanding, and don't normally sand panels.

regards, Rod.

[Paul Atkins]

Methods for this are somewhat determined by the material too. QSWO and ribbon mahogany are not very hand plane friendly when it comes to big panels. However sugar pine loves a nice sharp #7. Practice makes perfect with a belt sander too, I've screwed up a bunch of things learning how to use one. A 4" sander is so much more stable too. I've also hand scraped an entire set of kitchen and bath cabinets of claro walnut with perfect results, including Popeye arms. Then I discovered the scraper plane. I've used dowels , biscuits, t&g, splines, and none of the above and find that a slow assembly with care is the most important part. If I have a bunch of panels to do I now go to the cabinet shop down the street and pay for time on the thickness sander that I could never afford or have room for.

[John Thompson]

The best way is a drum sander if you have one or access to one. If not... a hand scraper will take and glue line and any small ridge out. A larger ridge can be taken with a low angle smoother plane but... as someone mentioned you better watch the grain directions you glued up with. Often you might have grain one direction on one board and the board beside might run the other direction which can be a problem with a hand-plane.

But.. the drum sander pretty much covers all problems if you have one..

Sarge..

[Joe Chritz]

If it is under 15" it goes through my planer, under 24" it goes through the drum sander. Wider than that I pay the $10 and have the shop up the road use the wide belt. Somethings are really worth the money.

I pop off the glue globs while they are skinned over but before fully cured and they pop right off.

There are lots of ways to accomplish the same thing.

Joe

[David Keller NC]

Dan - one of the best jigs you can ever build in your shop is a set of panel clamps. Veritas sells some nifty hardware for these, but you can do a bang-up job with some 8/4 maple ripped into 2-1/2 side strips and some threaded rod, washers and bolts from the hardware store.

It took me less than an afternoon a set of 4 of these, including the trip to the hardware store to pick up the threaded rod, washers, and nuts. Total investment was less than $20, and they make clamping and gluing wide panels so much easier. Provided that the boards that make up the panels have been run through the planer (or hand-planed to consistent thickness), these clamps drastically reduce the amount of work necessary to finish the final panel. Generally, when I glue up a panel with these I expect a result that is less than 1/64" off alignment.

Regarding glue squeeze-out clean-up, I'll note that an ounce of prevention is worth an hour of scraping. For the most part, and edge-to-edge grain glue joint with modern glues (or even hot hide glue) is tremendously strong. Provided that you've carefully fitted the joint, all that is necessary is to get a very thin, reasonably even coating of glue down one of the edges. Glue should not be dripping out of the entire joint - if so, you've made a lot of work for yourself. If you're careful about this, wiping the assembled joint with a wet paper towel should be enough so that only final sanding (or scraping, in my case - I hate sanding) is necessary.

[Andy Pratt]

The Lee Valley panel clamps are really worth the money. Spend the cash for a set of two and they make your life so much easier. I have two sets of two, so that I can do two panels at once, but one set is fine. I position them 1/3 and 2/3 along the panel length, the clamping pressure takes away any major misalignment in the panels, after they are solidly clamped by those, I use my k-bodys to put pressure along the rest. It works great and makes it easy to keep glue off everything. Most importantly, it takes all the frustration out of it. You never get a bowed panel anymore, and you greatly decrease your amount of sanding after glue up. I think they would pay for themselves within months in a business and pay for themselves within a year or two in hobby work, just in the saved annoyance factor.

In my opinion this is one of the best products LV makes, I couldn't imagine not having them.

Andy