HF Dust Collector Help for Head Porting.

[Chad Speier]

Hello Guys. Looking for some help. I'm a cylinder head porter, all aluminum, and I'm building a new shop. In my old ways, I used a shop vac, mask, and any eye/body protection. In my new shop I have built a downdraft style porting bench. This was tested with a shop vac. It works perfect for the cartridge roll dust, nothing escapes into the air. The chips will fall into the bottom of the downdraft table. I was going to plumb into the dust collector line to take them away. Or, I can manually dump them into a bucket. Here are my questions, concerns. I was going to use a shop vac, but decided on a "green" HF dust collector. Since I'm only 15 ft to my collector, is sizing a issue? Now the collector itself. What about the aluminum chips? Could they cause a issue? Should I build some sort of filtered separator? And last, would the collector mounted in a closet or sound room, properly vented, be OK? Can it be mounted vertical with the single bag placed down?

Questions I know! However, I want to be safe.

THANKS GUYS,
Chad

[Jim Becker]

Woodworking dust collectors are not designed for collecting metal--only wood chips and wood dust. There could even be a fire hazard if any hot chips get in the bag/bin. Take care on this and put in something that's designed for metal collection.

BTW, nice to see someone with the same last name and spelling as my ex's family... :)

[David G Baker]

I have an air compressor driven device that I use for metal chips and particles. It is a venturi type system that takes a fair sized compressor to drive. It was originally designed to transport small metal parts from one location to another using a vacuum. I use a metal 2 gallon bucket to catch the chips. I do more metal work than I do wood working. I have this set up so I can use it on my metal lathe, mill and drill presses. No worry about fire. It is way to small to use for wood dust or sawdust.

[Jeff Fischer]

I don't think there would be much danger from aluminum, just don't use for iron.
It sounds like a cyclone separator would catch the chips before they reached the collector.
When you empty the separator those chips could be recycled.
Just my 2 cents. Good Luck!

Jeff

[Anthony Whitesell]

Having worked with both metal and wood in the past, I would try minimize the cloth content used for filtering. I doubt that when you tried to empty the cloth bag or cloth filter it would be a very pleasant experience. The metal will snag in the fabric and could be very heavy.

[Chad Speier]

Thanks for the replies guys!! I think I check into a cyclone type seperator. The aluminum chip are soft, NO IRON! I refuse to port a iron head :) The guys who earn their living porting iron, EARN their living! It's a hard process.

I was more worried about the impeller and the aluminum chips. But something in front of the impeller would eliminate all that worry. I never even considered the weight of the filter bag. All good points, that's why I posted here. I totally appreciate it!

As for my name, it's for sure a unusual last name. I find it interesting whenever I run across someone with the same name.

Here is a photo of my porting bench and the PVC type downdraft. Like I said, my 160 cfm shop-vac pulled the dust from the rolls away. I have a piece od 1/4 aluminum for the top. I tested it with a piece if peg board. Since this photo, I have installed two drains for the chips. Build as I go I guess, LOL..

http://www.sasmopeds.com/Picture%20148.jpg

[Chad Speier]

I've spent most of the night educating myself of separators and such. I've come to the conclusion that a Thien separator and a shop vac might be all I need to accomplish what I need to do. So, would a Thien type top seperated light aluminum chips?? And, has anyone experienced the db level between a standard vs "quiet" series shop-vacs? Are they as loud?

Thanks Guys.

[Randal Stevenson]

I've spent most of the night educating myself of separators and such. I've come to the conclusion that a Thien separator and a shop vac might be all I need to accomplish what I need to do. So, would a Thien type top seperated light aluminum chips?? And, has anyone experienced the db level between a standard vs "quiet" series shop-vacs? Are they as loud?

Thanks Guys.

Depends on which "quiet" vacs. The Fein vacs, are much quieter, but you pay for it. The Ridgid with SNR (serial noise reduction) has some foam surrounding the motor and is a lower pitch. The "quiet" branded Shopvac brand ones I have played with, were anything but quiet.

You could also look for vac enclosures (basically a box with soundproofing, and ventilation).
As for the Thein seperator, you might ask him, and you might also consider using metal in its construction.

[Rick Potter]

Chad,

The Thien separator sounds like the ticket. Why don't you just use it with your dust collector, it should work great...just use 4" duct. There are several of this type on his web site.

Rick Potter

[Anthony Whitesell]

The Thein Separator would be an excellent choice for this application. The metal chips would not be near the moving parts of the dust collector and they wouldn't get stuck in the cloth bags.

[Matt Meiser]

I'd look for a used Torrit or similar dust collectector made for metal dusts. I occasionally see them on Craigslist for cheap. The bag filters on the HF unit aren't acceptable for wood dust and I can't imagine metal dust being any better. Like Jim said, most woodworking dust collectors aren't rated for metal. Since I assume this is a commercial application, you are probably opening a whole can of worms by using one, especially if there are employees involved.

[Chad Speier]

OK, I've been busy, LOL.. I totally changed the table concept. IT WORKS PERFECT! It really works well. I made a Thien lid, and mounted the DC on top. I ordered a better bag. I've only tested it with saw dust, but so far things look promising. Thanks for your replies, I'll keep you posted.. I also have a photo of what it will look like done. I added a hood also.. I need to support the DC also, I have a make shift stand.

http://www.sasmopeds.com/dd3.JPG

http://www.sasmopeds.com/dd2.JPG

http://www.sasmopeds.com/dd1.JPG

http://www.sasmopeds.com/dd4.JPG

[Phil Thien]

Nice work, can't wait to hear more.

So, how much would that garbage can weight if it were full of aluminum debris from your porting operation?

[Chad Speier]

Nice work, can't wait to hear more.

So, how much would that garbage can weight if it were full of aluminum debris from your porting operation?

Thanks! and thanks for answering my questions.. Not sure on weight, but if it fills up that means my family is eating well :D It took awhile, maybe 25 sets and manifolds to fill a 5 gallon bucket.

[Chad Speier]

I ported a head today. All I can say is WOW, that separtaor lid WORKS!! Not one piece of aluminum found the bag. It's way cool!

http://www.sasmopeds.com/Picture%20158.jpg

[Rich Pritchard]

Nice work Chad, very innovative. I was wondering if a sturdy grate style floor, (ala' barbQ grill style) rather than a flat sheet w/ holes might be more efficient. Also, painting the wood part of the chute w/ enamel might help keep chips and dust from sticking to it. Anyway, I'm impressed.

[Chad Speier]

I thought of that Rich. Grizzly has a bench like that. While testing, I found a piece of peg board with many hole was OK, but it seemed to be lacking on suck. when I started reducing the holes, I was getting what I wanted. But it was loud. This now will flat pull a chip into the hole, it's actually amazing. I was getting some whistle off it but I fixed that. It's no different that calibrating a flow bench. A hole like these need a taper on the bottom side. A calibration plate has a sharp edge on one side. Sharp edge goes down when pulling, edge goes up when pushing for calibration purposes. I basically made the hole sharp edged and the whistle and flow through the hole increased.

I could get really cool and use my pitot tube and see how much cfm a hole is pulling. :cool:

Well, I went ahead and did it. This is the formula I used.

CFM= (FPS x CSA) / 2.4

81.08 fps
.933 hole= .68 sq. inches

81.08 fps x .68= 55.13/2.4
22.98 CFM

Now the question, is that good or bad?? :D I have 10 holes total.

[Chad Speier]

Hey Guys, I just wanted to bring this thead back up and report that I have been using this set-up for the last 9 months. It has worked flawless! No dust in the shop, pulls cartridge roll dust out of the air.

That Thein lid is the crap! This system is even more remarkable in person.

Thanks Again for all the help!!