Drum Sander vs. Planer.

[Tony Bilello]

I build furniture, so the common 13” planers are just a bit too small. I was thinking of getting a 20” planer for my ‘finish planing’. I usually always buy my hardwood S2S rather than rough boards. Even when I had a large shop and a planer, it was
still more cost effective to have the lumber yard do it for me. What I need the planer or drum sander for is to final flatten table tops and other wide glue-ups.
What I need to know from users of of 15” to 22” open end drum sanders is
1). How well do they perform.
2). When I glue up table tops, the boards slip out of alignment by about 1/16”. How many passes would I have to do with 80 grit to flatten out a table and how practical is this?
3). How deep is considered a “light pass” and how often do you have to change the sandpaper if you do wide boards?

Thanks in advance

[Rick Fisher]

I have a 24" Drum sander, its not open ended. I have found really wide panels (over 18") tricky.

My machine is 3hp and if I attempt to take off more than 1/128th on an 18" panel or wider, I get belt screeching, bad smells etc..

I have a 20" planer and always run glue up's through the planer prior to the sander. The sander is fussy, too easy to damage the paper or burn..

If you get a wide drum sander, consider putting a digital display on it. Its not much good for measuring the thickness but its great for making tiny adjustments.


If you buy good quality paper, and keep it clean, it lasts a long time. The finer the grit, the more often you need to clean it. I run 150 x 180 on mine and often clean it every 5-6 passes. Other folks think its crazy but it works for me..

The other thing worth mentioning is that on wide panels, I often run the panel through 2-3 times before adjusting the height again.. For making things thinner, its a terrible solution.. for making them smooth, it works pretty good..

I should add that its not in the same league as a wide belt sander. If you have the money and the power, look at a good used WBS first.

[Perry Underwood]

I have a 16/32 drum sander. The sander worked well straight from the box and required only simple adjustments to equalize the depth of sanding from side to side.

My machine came with 80 grit paper. I use it primarily to thickness short boards from two to four feet. After the initial sanding, I joint the edges and glue them up. Then I run them through the sander again to attain a flat surface on both top and bottom.

I would say that the best amount to take off with each pass is about 1/32 or less. I believe on my sander one turn of the depth adjustment wheel is equal to 1/16. I usually take quarter turns or a little more. I'm not in a hurry.

Several factors determine how many passes it will take to flatten glued-up boards that may differ in thickness as much as 1/16 top and bottom. I would estimate at least three passes for each side. Remember that you're leveling not just where the boards are glued but also the full width of the board. Don't be surprised if it takes more.

Rick gives excellent advice when he suggests buying good quality paper. Don't try to save money in this area. I tried to do that and all that happened was the paper would tear where it was connected to the drum. When I purchased a better quality paper (what Jet sells) I had no trouble.

Also, even if a sander is advertised as being able to sand a 16 inch wide board, doing so taxes the paper on the drum. I recently ran a board through that was just under 16 inches and I tried to keep the depth sanded with each pass very low.

How long your paper lasts depends on how often you use the machine and the wood you send through it. The paper that came on my sander (I believe the brand was Klingspor.) lasted for over a year with fairly heavy sanding of maple, ash, and walnut. When I replaced the original paper with a less expensive paper, I made sure to keep it so I would have a pattern to use when cutting paper from a roll. When I found that the less expensive paper would tear easily, I put the old paper back on and used it until I bought better paper.

[Dave Bureau]

just remember, a sander is a sander and a planer is a planer. light passes on the sander only. if you try and take off to much per pass you will screw up your paper and burn your wood. make it easy. just get both.
Dave

[Chip Lindley]

First suggestion: If you have 1/16 difference in your glue-ups because of slippage, Work on That! There are solutions to keep boards closely aligned during glue-up. 1/16 is just unacceptable! That is food for another forum thread.

Good advice on planers/sanders from these contributors! The two machines are not interchangeable. A planer thicknesses wood in an efficient manner, although there are tear outs with knife-head machines. The newer *beaucoup-bucks* carbide insert planers are wonderful for "almost" final finishing. Be prepared for sticker shock!

I use a 5hp Grizzly 24" drum sander on panels after glue up. 1/32 can be take off panels after several passes. Although the machine is finicky to keep the sanding roll on the drums, and the conveyor tracking, it basically does a good job, but SORELY needs usable dust collection. It is a bare minimum in drum sanding, but better than nothing!! And yes, a true wide belt sander would be MuchoBetta, but Mucho bucks (and Amps) too!

[Cary Falk]

I bought a used a Grizzly 18/36 open end sander earlier this year. It has worked flawlessly. That being said, you want to do as much as possible on a planer because a sander is very slow and you go through paper musch faster than knives.

[Eugene Wigley]

Tony, I use a 15" jet for planing. It works well but I wish it was bigger. If I get another planer it WILL BE A 24".(Probably a griz.)

I use a 24" Griz. for sanding. I have had it since about 2001. The paper came off the first panel I sanded with it. I converted it to hook and loop. I have had no other problems with it other than it is really only good for about 22" width and as with any drum sander you can only take VERY SMALL amounts of stock in a single pass. I run two to three passes between adjustments.
I am considering a nwe drum sander at this time. If I get one it will be a Woodmaster. I would not buy a Woodmaster planer but they make a great sander. Check it out. I used one to sand a table top and it worked great.
http://www.woodmastertools.com/s/drum.cfm

Hope this helps

[Mark Singer]

I really use both a lot. My 24" drum is used on every project and I really could not live without it

[Mike OMelia]

If you get a wide drum sander, consider putting a digital display on it. Its not much good for measuring the thickness but its great for making tiny adjustments.




Tell me about the digital display. I understand relative vs absolute measurement... makes sense to me. I have a Performax 10-20. Is there a dsiplay for that tool?

I cannot agree more on "good" paper. Don't forget the gum eraser bar. I use one from Klingspor, 2x2x12". Cheap insurance.

Mike

[Joe Von Kaenel]

Tony

WoodMaster tools make a 725 planer that is 25" wide. The nice this about this machine, it can be used as a 25" drum sander. They make a drum sander kit. You can go from planer to drum sander in about 5 minutes. Another bonus is that the it is one machine so it makes a smaller footprint then 2 machines.

Joe

[CPeter James]

I posted this on another thread.

" I have a General dual drum sander and before this I had a Performax 25X2. I think the biggest problems with drum sanders are in two areas.

1. The machines are set up incorrectly. They need to be adjusted for a very, very small of stock removal. It takes several passes to achieve much stock removal. Both machines I bought used. Both were in serious need to alignment. I also found one for a friend and it also needed alignment. Learning to get the paper on correctly will reduce or eliminate any lines left by the machine. Using the correct grade of paper will help. I do not use anything above 150 and usually stay at 120 and below. My General had been used for one job and given up as unworkable. It was badly out of alignment.

2. They are NOT planers. Stock removal in the area of .001" to .003" per pass is about all you should be trying for. Feed speed needs to be faster, not slower to prevent burning. This is especially true on fruit woods like cherry. They are not the final sander before finishing.

They are great for creating flat panels for doors etc. After the panel or board is flat and smooth, an air ROS will take care of the rest of the machine sanding, followed by a small amount of hand sanding. They will produce panels that are plate glass flat when used correctly."

CPeter

[Mike OMelia]

One huge difference is final thickness goal. For instrument builders, getting a piece of stock down to, say, 0.1" requires a drum sander, not a planer. Planer are great for thicker goals. Drum sanders are better for stock under .25" (sniping, figured wood, etc)

The newer spiral cutters and shelix cutters promise thinner boards, yet I still hear folks talk about stock destruction with thin boards. A drum sander might burn a thin board, but it won't turn it into tooth picks.

Mike

[Rick Fisher]

For my wixey, I just got a simple one and modified it.

The idea isnt to see how thick the board is, just to measure exactly how much I am raising the bed.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Wixey.jpg

The problem with the General sander is that the handle is big and has some "looseness" to it. Trying to make a .001 adjustment with a great big handle was beyond my abilities. I likened it to putting a cork in a bottle with a sledge hammer.


http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Chart1.jpg

I also taped this chart to the sander, beneath the Wixey.

[Rick Fisher]

Something to keep in mind with a Drum sander is that the paper isnt cheap.

I paid about $125.00 for a 100' roll of paper. The paper is 3" wide.

A 5" Drum x 24" long uses about 11 feet of paper to wrap one of the two drums.

( 5" x 3.14 = 15.7" x 24" / 3" = 126" of paper. Plus the tails needed to install it.)

For $125.00. I will likely get 9-10 wraps..

To wrap both drums, I am looking at $25.00

During the learning curve, I burnt at least 3-4 wraps and tore up one..

[David Freed]

WoodMaster tools make a 725 planer that is 25" wide. The nice this about this machine, it can be used as a 25" drum sander. They make a drum sander kit. You can go from planer to drum sander in about 5 minutes.


I have a Woodmaster, and it is a really good machine, but it takes a lot longer than 5 minutes to switch between machines.

[Steve Nouis]

I vote to get a 20" planer or bigger, spiral head is nice and a good agressive random orbit sander and a good hand belt sander. I have RBI drum sander which I gave up on. You can only take off 5 to 7 thousands per pass and you run a small knot through it still ruins the paper. It's so pathetic that after taking a pass the board heats up a little and you can't lower the head at all without burning. Maybe a dedicated drum sander with a way bigger drum and slower speed might work. Steve

[Kevin Jaynes]

Joe Von,

Thanks for reminding me I own a drum sander . . . I have a 725 but have only used it as a sander a couple of times. I haven't been doing much panel work lately (lately not much woodworking period :( ) but the last couple of projects I did that had panel glue-ups, I just used hit them with the Bosch 5" ROS. Man that little bugger is aggressive.

Since I have the spiral head on the 725, I don't often need a drum sander. If I ever do see a need for one and can justify the cost, I will probably get the Woodmaster 50" again. I owned one in the early 90's and loved it.

Hated to part with it, but divorces seem to have a way of liquidating an entire woodworking shop. :rolleyes:

[J.R. Rutter]

My first sander was a 22-44 Pro. I eventually got tired of having to run it at slow speed to avoid burning and trying to juggle larger panels or doors while avoiding a gouge at the open end of the drum. I found that setting the drum level to the table resulted in it being leveraged up varying amounts depending on wood hardness and thickness. The abrasive holding system was too lightweight to prevent stretching and overlapping of seams as the wrap approached the end of its life. But it fit into my small shop and was affordable at the time.

My next sander was a 37" double drum. It could run twice as fast and by using a coarse grit up front and a finer grit in back, the paper lasted a lot longer. But trying to do wide panels like tabletops was an exercise in frustration because the glue lines would load up and burn almost immediately unless the panel could be skewed 20 degrees or more. Trying to remove more than 1/8 turn of the handwheel was a problem. But it fit into my small shop and was cheaper than a widebelt. My sander had a steel drum in front for calibrating, and a rubber drum in back for finishing. Over the time that I had it, I was able to fine tune the drums by noting where the paper had loaded up and sanding the rubber lightly in those spots each time I changed loads. For the front, I used a can of BBQ spray paint to gradually build up the spots where the wrap had not loaded up. By the time I sold it, it was pretty well dialed in.

I have a commercial shop, so I was finally able to justify a double head 43" widebelt. It works twice as fast as the double drum and gives a much better surface - a few seconds of equivalent grit ROS erases the linear scratches completely. Belt changes are fast, but grit changes do require recalibration, so I have settled on a pair that handles my needs. I use about a belt per month on each head - about $30 each. I was actually spending more than that on bulk wraps for the double drum.

As to the original question, I would make these observations:

If you go to buying lumber H&M, and S2S it yourself, you can get flatter staves to glue up with a light face joint and thickness plane pass. This should help you to get flatter panels in glue up. Yes, S2S is cheaper, but this is about controlling your quality, not your cost.

The open ended sander will work to a certain extent for tabletops, but expect it to be painfully slow, and possibly painful on your back as you try to support it properly and avoid disaster on that last pass.

If I were you, I would be tempted to look for a used wide drum sander. I would imagine that the next few months will see many shops closing up and putting a lot of good used equipment on the market. It may be easier in the long run to sand 2 halves of a tabletop glued up, then biscuit the halves together and hand sand the last center line.

[lou sansone]

for figured lumber with wide belt is a real time saver. I looked at the drum sanders and found a very nice single owner timesavers 37" wide belt for less than the drum sanders - the 20 hp motor might make for a tough time starting if you are not set up for 3 phase -