French Cleat questions

[Rick Moyer]

I did research a bit about this but would like to get some consensus:

1. What material for the cleats? I'm thinking 3/4 good ply would be best?
2. How wide should the wall pc be? 3" or so seem likely?
3. Would you run the wall cleat all around the perimeter if you could?
4. How many rows of wall cleats and at what heights?

And for those of you who have them..What would you do differently now that you have been using them?

Thanks to all for their assistance!

[Michael Schapansky]

Since I'm installing my setup this weekend (wall paint is drying now) I'm interested in the answers here too. At present I'm thinking of 2 rows all around the garage, er, shop. I've seen photos of shops with up to 5 rows but I'm wondering if a lot of rows wouldn't be more in the way. Thanks for any responses.

[Brent Smith]

Hi Rick,

I use BB Plywood for my cleats with never a problem. Wall and cabinet cleats are 3-4" wide. All the ones I use are dedicated to a specific cabinet. As far as height goes that depends on what you are using them for.

[Jim Becker]

Rick, solid stock or plywood both work great for French cleats...whatever you have around that is available in the size you need to do the job. I almost always use scrap for something like this which is a hidden utility function.

[Chris Friesen]

I used 3" wide strips of 3/4 CDX sheathing plywood for my cleats.
Looks utilitarian, but does the job cheaply. I used two #10 3"screws into every stud.

I went with a 30 degree angle on the cleat. This is plenty to keep the hanging items secure, and doesn't put as much horizontal force on the cleat as a 45 degree angle would.

I started with one row up very high, and plan on adding at least one more lower row.

I've got my (heavy!) clamp rack hanging off the cleat and so far it hasn't come
crashing down...

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I went with a 30 degree angle on the cleat. This is plenty to keep the hanging items secure, and doesn't put as much horizontal force on the cleat as a 45 degree angle would.

crashing down...

Chris, seems to me that there is no horizontal force at play in FC's after the cabinet cleat hits the wall? Or at least an extreemly small amount. At that point its all shear, right? I could be wrong though, it happened once...;)

I use solid stock for mine, usually. Have also used AC ply and MDF. The systems so strong, the weak point is your screws, not the cleat itself. On upper cabinets, I use one cleat, at least 3", in a shop more sounds better.

[Ted Shrader]

Rick -

Either plywood or solid stock will work. I generally start my search in or near the scrap bin. After all it is hidden.

On shop cabinets, 3" is a good starting point. A 25° ~ 30° is sufficient. If you are concerned about the cabinet getting bumped and knocked off the cleat a couple of screws straight through the top cleat into the wall will keep the cabinet from lifting up.

I put dedicated cleats for each item rather than a single cleat running the length of the wall (unless the cabinets are screwed together to make "one" unit).

Regards,
Ted

[Chris Friesen]

Chris, seems to me that there is no horizontal force at play in FC's after the cabinet cleat hits the wall? Or at least an extreemly small amount. At that point its all shear, right? I could be wrong though, it happened once...;)

This is all shades of my "Statics" class. "Draw a free-body diagram of an item hanging off a french cleat..."

Assuming the thickness of the wall cleat and the cleat on the hanging item is identical, once it bottoms out then the weight of the hanging item will try to simultaneously pull the screws from the wall and pull the cleat off the back of the hanging item, as well as exerting vertical forces on each cleat. The steeper the angle, the stronger the horizontal force.

For most items this is probably not an issue, but I don't see any advantage to the steeper angle so I went with shallower. For a *really* heavy item, it might be worth using interlocking rabbets instead of interlocking angles.

[Thom Sturgill]

IIRC, screws are for pull-out and nails for shear. If you screw the cleat into studs, transferring the stresses from shear to pull-out would be a Good Thing (tm). I've always used 45 degree cuts and generally either rip a 1x6 to make the pair, or use whatever is in the scrap heap...

[Chris Friesen]

IIRC, screws are for pull-out and nails for shear. If you screw the cleat into studs, transferring the stresses from shear to pull-out would be a Good Thing (tm).


Unfortunately, the stresses aren't transferred, the horizontal stresses are in addition to the vertical ones. No matter how you fasten the cleats to the wall, they're still sitting flat on the wall surface and are being held by the shear strength of the fasteners.

With properly heat-treated screws though, shear strength shouldn't be an issue.

[Rick Moyer]

Well, answers to 1. and 2. seem to be a consensus. Thank You.
What about running a cleat around the perimeter? It seems to me that that is a big reason for using French Cleats, so that you can relocate something very easily. Many of you seem to make a cleat for a specific hanging. Would those who have specific cleats want a continuous cleat, and would those who have continuous cleats prefer not to have done it that way, or is everyone happy as is? I'm debating whether to run a cleat or cleats around the perimeter before I start putting stuff in the garage/shop.

[David Giles]

1. What material for the cleats? I'm thinking 3/4 good ply would be best? Yep, 3/4" anything works fine.

2. How wide should the wall pc be? 3" or so seem likely? Rip a 4-5" piece of wood at an 30-45 degree angle. Whatever that dimension is.

3. Would you run the wall cleat all around the perimeter if you could? Yes, at multiple heights.

4. How many rows of wall cleats and at what heights? Different strokes for different folks, but I make all cleat panels 24" long. The cleats are located 25" apart on the wall (top to top). With 10 ft ceilings, one row is at 9-9.5ft elevation. This row is inaccessible except for long clamps and levels, but provides lots of storage. The next row starts about 7-7.5 ft elevation and provides easy access to most bar clamps and pegboard frames. The lowest cleat holds small items.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

This is all shades of my "Statics" class. "Draw a free-body diagram of an item hanging off a french cleat..."

Assuming the thickness of the wall cleat and the cleat on the hanging item is identical, once it bottoms out then the weight of the hanging item will try to simultaneously pull the screws from the wall and pull the cleat off the back of the hanging item, as well as exerting vertical forces on each cleat. The steeper the angle, the stronger the horizontal force.

For most items this is probably not an issue, but I don't see any advantage to the steeper angle so I went with shallower. For a *really* heavy item, it might be worth using interlocking rabbets instead of interlocking angles.

Ok, the cleats would tend to want to move over each other, pushing the cabinet away from the wall. I'll buy that. I also suppose that a higher friction cleat material would resist this more. Purely hypothetical I suppose though, as you would have to be storing your pickup truck on your cabinets to cause this...

For the record, I use 30 degrees or so on mine.