spiral cutterhead vs. drum sander

[chet jamio]

There's been a lot of posts about spiral cutterheads lately. I don't have one on either my jointer of planer, so I'm basing my thoughts on posts I've read. You could spend $400 each for the jointer and planer cutterheads, or you could spend $800 on a drum sander. While a spiral or shelix does reduce tearout, it seems to maintain or worsen the amount of scalloping. A drum sander doesn't produce tearout or scallops. It may take a little longer to remove tearout with a drum sander than to fix the scallops with a smoothing plane, but I think it's a better solution.

This wouldn't help for edge jointing, but I read more stories about straight blades being better for this anyways.

Does a drum sander make more sense than a spiral head?

[Rob Grubbs]

It depends on what you are doing, but in general I don't think a drum sander makes more sense. I have helical cutters on my jointer and planer and also have a drum sander. The jointer and planer I use on boards prior to glue up, the drum sander usually after (if at all). Either method will require finish sanding so unless you need to flatten a panel after glue up, the drum sander has limited use.
Also I am not sure that a helical on the jointer is necessary, even though I have one. Most of the time I run through the planer after jointing anyway. Therfore I would think the least expensive solution would be to have a helical on your planer.

[Cary Falk]

I suck at knife changing and it is my lease favorite job. For that alone it is worth it to me to get a spiral head. I will make the switch over once my straight knives wear out.

[Chip Lindley]

Cary?? Wear out? or just get dull? I have the same set of knives on my Rockwell RC33 (13-1/8") planer that came with it in 1984, altho they are only about 7/16 wide now! I have sharpened them many many times in 25 years. Make your move before 25 years passes!!!

This thread brings up the primo argument my mind is mulling over today! In 25 years I have experienced some heartbreak with chipout but NOT that much, really. On highly figured wood I plane to about 1/16-over, and sand out the chip-out blems on a Grizzly drum sander. (80 grit then 120 grit)

If I did a larger quantity of lumber processing, OR exotic, highly figured woods, the use of insert heads would certainly be a No Brainer to reduce expensive waste AND downtime while sharpening. Soooooooo...I am torn!

I do wish someone in the forum would post pix of the raw surface produced from a good insert head. I have never experienced one yet *up close and personal*, and have heard much pro and con offered, for the big Bucks expended!

So....The lure of insert carbide lurks still !!

[J.R. Rutter]

I have Shelix heads on my jointer and planer, and a widebelt. I wouldn't give up any of them! If you do not have tearout problems, then maybe a drum sander makes sense. A drum sander definitely takes a fair amount of ROS work afterwards, almost as much as a shelix head... Sorry not to give a clear answer, but a lot depends on your work habits and typical projects.

[Sonny Edmonds]

...not from experience.
But a drum sander....:mad: now there's a scar!
Years ago I bought a Delta Drum Sander, and partly because it was very highly reviewed in a particular wood magazine.
It sucked! It wouldn't do anything without fidgeting and fussing with it. I spent 4 months trying to get some semblance of real results without it going off track, or blowing a strip, or just doing anything it was supposed to do.
Sadly, it is the only tool I've ever bought that was literally kicked to the curb.
My friend at Gus' Tools took it back, gave me full store credit for the machine and any unused sanding strips, and contacted Delta about it. He asked that I write a letter about what I felt was wrong with it.
On that, the drum sander was shipped to Corporate for a total failure analysis.

I wouldn't have another drum sander in my rear if I had room for two of them. :cool: Totally soured on them!
And remember, magazines make their money off of advertising. So it stands to reason they won't bite the hand that feeds them.

But I'd like to try spiral cutterheads...
Yep I would. :)
Even though I am very happy with what I currently have.

[Jeremy Rayburn]

I actually just got a Grizzly 0490x w/ spiral cutterhead and got rid of my Rigid 6" jointer. I also have some hard curly maple that I recently face jointed with the Rigid, with serious tearout. Once I get my new jointer set up, I will face joint another piece of that some board and post the pics to see the difference. I also have a Woodmaster 26" drum sander, and can't remember what it was like without it! LOVE IT!

[Sonny Edmonds]

I'd like to see your results. I too love to work with birdseye maples and other hard to work woods.
That is my main reason for interest in the spiral cutterheads.

I still have zero interest in a drum sander. I'll keep on keepin on with my air driven ROS and twin piston stroke sanders. ;)

[Brad Shipton]

Chip, I made up about 600sq ft of Jatoba flooring about 6mos ago and was frustrated with the tearout. I sent a sample to my Byrd rep for testing and was quite impressed with the quality. Here are some closeup pics for you. I finally am ordering one as I have a bunch more to do. No before pics, but these were some of the worst pieces I could find. The light colored areas turned out terrible with my planer.

Just links since the pics are large.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/Brad805/Jatoba%20Samples/DSC01931.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/Brad805/Jatoba%20Samples/DSC01933.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/Brad805/Jatoba%20Samples/DSC01934.jpg
Brad

[mreza Salav]

I think a drum sander can do things that you cannot achieve using a planer.

For example, there may be situations you must feed it through across the grain, or if it's an end-grain, or if it's a delicate glue-up which might shatter into pieces if it's fed through a planer. A drum sander can handle all these situations.

[Tom Leasure]

I have a GRIZ 15" planer that came with the standard knives - ran fine, no problems other than extremly LOUD - switched to the spiral head & noise went away - If I had to do it over again I wouldn't hesistate to spring for the spiral head - if fact I'm about to order a new jointer with the spiral head - mainly #1- due to needing the larger tables & #2- the noise factor
Also have a 1632 drum sander - for it's use , it's great - each tool has it's own use & you can't have to many tools ( don't want to get something started here with the last statement )

[Jeremy Rayburn]

I like to do laminate bends and try getting a 1/8" piece of stock out of a planer in one piece!

[David Keller NC]

"While a spiral or shelix does reduce tearout, it seems to maintain or worsen the amount of scalloping. A drum sander doesn't produce tearout or scallops."

No, but what it does do is leave long, parallel lines in your stock, just as if you had a planer knife with a nick in it. It's extremely slow at stock removal compared to a planer, and generates a great deal of very fine dust - some of which will escape into your shop, no matter how good your dust collection system is. The disposables cost is also a good deal more than a planer/jointer.

However, as someone pointed out, it will do things that a planer can't - like flatten an end-grain cutting board, true up a frame-and-panel door, and sand things down to a thickness that would require a special sled and stick-down with double sided tape to pass through a planer (and even then it'd be dangerous).

What I'd say is that if you want a drum sander, you want to wait on the new Jet models with the oscillating head - the difference in surface quality between it and an ordinary drum sander is substantial.

[Cary Falk]

Cary?? Wear out? or just get dull? I have the same set of knives on my Rockwell RC33 (13-1/8") planer that came with it in 1984, altho they are only about 7/16 wide now! I have sharpened them many many times in 25 years. Make your move before 25 years passes!!!


I meant get dull.I replaced the blades on my 6" jointer once and never got them right. I now have an 8" and will probably not change them for a couple of years. I would rather sand down the ridges from nicks then change the blades. My lunchbox planer has quick set knives thank goodness. When I upgrade to a 15" it will have a spiral. I dont consider anyghing off a planer, jointer or drum sander finish ready. I take a ROS to everything . If the spiral head leaves scalops it doesn't matter much. The drum sander leaves long lines as previously mentioned.

[Adam Grills]

I do wish someone in the forum would post pix of the raw surface produced from a good insert head. I have never experienced one yet *up close and personal*, and have heard much pro and con offered, for the big Bucks expended!

So....The lure of insert carbide lurks still !!

There have been a number of posts with pictures. Sometimes you need to do a seach for them.

I own a byrd head- worth every penny! I use mostly figured wood. No worries about direction of grain etc when feeding.

Drum sander is a totally different "Bird". Good for what they are made for sanding.

Adam

[CPeter James]

I have a General dual drum sander and before this I had a Performax 25X2. I think the biggest problems with drum sanders are in two areas.

1. The machines are set up incorrectly. They need to be adjusted for a very, very small of stock removal. It takes several passes to achieve much stock removal. Both machines I bought used. Both were in serious need to alignment. I also found one for a friend and it also needed alignment. Learning to get the paper on correctly will reduce or eliminate any lines left by the machine. Using the correct grade of paper will help. I do not use anything above 150 and usually stay at 120 and below. My General had been used for one job and given up as unworkable. It was badly out of alignment.

2. They are NOT planers. Stock removal in the area of .001" to .003" per pass is about all you should be trying for. Feed speed needs to be faster, not slower to prevent burning. This is especially true on fruit woods like cherry. They are not the final sander before finishing.

They are great for creating flat panels for doors etc. After the panel or board is flat and smooth, an air ROS will take care of the rest of the machine sanding, followed by a small amount of hand sanding. They will produce panels that are plate glass flat when used correctly.

CPeter