jointer vs. planner

[Ed Gibbons]

Other than jointing boards, why a jointer? I have a planner that works well. When jointing boards, I put a even edge on a board on my table saw. I have always longed to have a jointer but I have done okay without one. Talk me into one......

[Bill Huber]

A planner can not make a cupped board flat, the rollers push the board down when it goes taking out the cup but then when the pressure is off the cup comes back.
A planner can not make a warped board flat.

I have come close by taking very small cuts but in the end its still has a cup.

With a jointer you can made a cupped board flat.

[travis howe]

The biggest challenge I believe you'll have w/ out a jointer is getting your stock square on all sides. You can do the width portion w/ a table saw for sure but thickness is of course an issue.

You always want to joint one edge and one side so that your planner has a flat reference to run against...otherwise, any cups or other variations will follow through inside your planner.

my .02c

[Jim Becker]

Bottom line is that the jointer's primarily job is to make the face of a board totally flat and put an edge not just straight, but absolutely perpendicular to the face that was flattened. Once you work with flat lumber, you'll never want to go back to your pre-jointer days. But this is also one of the reasons that you'll see folks recommend you go as wide as you can afford...many boards are too wide for a typical 6" jointer to face plane flat.

[Dave Verstraete]

Bottom line is that the jointer's primarily job is to make the face of a board totally flat and put an edge not just straight, but absolutely perpendicular to the face that was flattened. Once you work with flat lumber, you'll never want to go back to your pre-jointer days. But this is also one of the reasons that you'll see folks recommend you go as wide as you can afford...many boards are too wide for a typical 6" jointer to face plane flat.

+1
Once you start using a jointer to make your board flat on one face and square on the side, you'll wonder how you ever did without it.

[Ted Shrader]

Ed -

You are half way there. With the planer you can make boards any thickness you desire. A jointer will give you a flat face and a prependicular edge. Actually, those are the first steps in prepping your material. Then, on to the planer.

Once you have done it, you will wonder what took you so long. Flat and straight just can't be beat.

Get the widest jointer you can afford. I recently upgraded from 6" tp 8". What a difference. There is a good bit of rough lumber less than 6". There is also a lot between 6" and 8". Of course there are wider boards, but they don't get used that freuently. My rough guess is that 95% will be less than 8".

Good luck in your search.

Regards,
Ted

[Chris Padilla]

+2

Face planing...#1 reason to own a jointer...a WIDE jointer if you can afford it.

Flatten one face of a rough chunk of lumber
Then plane the other side so it is parallel the the flattened face
Then joint one edge of the lumber to get it perpendicular to the two parallel faces
The either joint the other edge on the jointer or rip on a TS or BS

Viola, S4S from rough lumber....

[Bob Parker]

a little off subject but besides possibly more glue up time and more room for error, is there anything wrong with ripping boards to 6", face jointing/planing them, and then gluing them back together in the order they were ripped?

[Chris Padilla]

My rough guess is that 95% will be less than 8".

Good luck in your search.

Regards,
Ted

Actually, I'd say that 95% will be less than than the width of jointer you own! ;) haha

Or maybe that 95% is wider than the width of the jointer you own! ;)

[Joe Petersen]

Nothing wrong with that. People do it all the time. Just not as nice as a big solid wide slab for just that project.

[Peter Quinn]

A jointer is a very effective weapon for making tapered legs, I don't think this is possible with a planer. Oh, and a jointer can flatten a boards face and make one edge straight. Not easy to do that on a planer either. So if your work requires straight, flat stock, GO GET A JOINTER. Lots of wood work doesn't require a jointer, but many things do.

[glenn bradley]

As long as we're talking you into it, I'll echo the theme here; jointers make surfaces flat. A flat surface is the reference point for all other milling operations. As Ted (and literally dozens of others including me) found out; 8" . .. at least, for a lot of us.

[Ray Schafer]

Well, in some cases, that is exactly what you need to do. I was watching a WW show, can't remember which one ... maybe NYW. Whichever it was ... they mentioned that it is often better to cut down boards that you are using for a large panel to counteract the possible warping, cupping and general stress from wood movement.

[Ed Gibbons]

Keep going guys....Santa is listening..

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[Tom Adger]

Ed, it would certainly be nicer to have an 8" rather than a 6" jointer. However, if your budget can only afford a 6", by all means get one. I have a Ridgid 6", model 06101, and I love it.

[Perry Underwood]

If you have the funds, a Jointer/Planer Combo from Mini Max USA may be the answer.

http://www.minimax-usa.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=4&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=35

There's a video on this page.

http://www.minimax-usa.com/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=36&task=videodirectlink&id=8

[Craig D Peltier]

I dont know why anyone would not want to have one ,if your building furnitureor even cabs,
Personally lately I have been dumbfounded by two of my wood suppliers who both due glues ups of large sizes that dont have a jointer. Thye tell me they cant guarantee a flat surface!!
Alot of cabinets you can get away with it if you can rip it straight with jig on TS and then since its usually face frames and edge bandings, self edges ,you can just bend to fit. Doors you would have choose the flattest stock and hope for the best.

Personally too many boards are over 8 inches more like 10-11 that I will shortly be upgrading to a 12.
Also a longer table the better chance of you getting it flat.

[Marcus Ward]

It might be helpful to think of the two tools mentioned as a Squarer-Upper and a Thicknesser. The jointer makes things square, the thicknesser changes their thickness. I have a 6" jointer, I rarely use wood that starts out wider than 8", so I wish I had an 8" jointer. However, recently I've gotten ahold of an infinite width jointer. It works great! I can carefull remove high spots without having to run the entire board through, it never has problems accidentally tapering the board because my feed method wasn't the greatest... frankly, it's a peach! I'd attach a picture of mine but I can't find one, so I'll attach a picture from a place that sells new ones.

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/planes/05p3701-dsp.jpg

:D :D :D :D

Seriously, a powered jointer is awful handy to have, always buy the biggest one you can afford if you plan on face jointing. If you're just going to edge joint, 6" is fine. I find that since I use hand planes I don't face joint much.

[Jim Becker]

a little off subject but besides possibly more glue up time and more room for error, is there anything wrong with ripping boards to 6", face jointing/planing them, and then gluing them back together in the order they were ripped?

Nothing "wrong" with it...as already stated, many folks do just this. Sometimes it's because of equipment limitations. Sometimes it's because of the mistaken believe that you cannot glue up wide boards without them warping. Aesthetically, many of us prefer the look of wider boards...I'm one of those people. The wider, the better for me, and when I do glue up, I try really, really hard to do a careful grain and color match in an effort to all but eliminate any visual hint that there is a joint there at all.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

A 6" jointer is useful too. It's all I had for ten years, and if you are a bit more careful with stock selection, they are more then enough. I just upgraded to a 16" though, and the extra room is very nice. A 6" will really excell at edge joining, which is critical in good accurate glue ups. If you buy decent S3S lumber, so that the face is pretty much flat to begin with, you won't have to worry about it.

I also think that there is no "glue line rip" saw blade out there that can compare with a jointed edge, and for this reason alone, a jointer is worth the money. Oh, and they work well for beveling, and some will rabbet if you want.

[Jim Becker]

If you have the funds, a Jointer/Planer Combo from Mini Max USA may be the answer.

Special sale today (26 November), too...extra 5% off the December holiday/year-end sale prices for all in-stock machines. LOL

[Perry Underwood]

Yes, the jointer/planer combo mention was more to introduce the idea of a possibility than anything else. It is a nice video to watch, however.

One could purchase a nice jointer and planer for well under what one of the combos would cost.

[Mike Hess]

Mainly just to be a contrarian:

What about using a planer with a sled to flatten the first face? A 12" planer with a shop built sled is a lot less expensive than a 12" jointer.

Sure, it would be nice to have a big jointer, but with limited shop space, and limited funds, one could get by with a planer sled and a 4" jointer for edge jointing.

[Rod Sheridan]

Mainly just to be a contrarian:

What about using a planer with a sled to flatten the first face? A 12" planer with a shop built sled is a lot less expensive than a 12" jointer.

Sure, it would be nice to have a big jointer, but with limited shop space, and limited funds, one could get by with a planer sled and a 4" jointer for edge jointing.

Hi Mike, you are correct that a planer sled could be used in place of a wide jointer, however every time you use the sled, you have to re-shim it for a different board.

That's pretty time consuming, and not as accurate as using a jointer with longer beds. (I don't know of any home planers with bed lengths much in excess of 24").

A 12 inch jointer/planer however gives you a 12 inch jointer and planer in a space and cost efficient package.

Regards, Rod.

[Joe Cunningham]

I'm with Marcus, I like my unlimited width jointer. A real space and money saver too. :)

If I was doing this hobby for $$$, I'd get the widest jointer I could afford. But I like hand planing boards when face jointing. Thickness planing is not as much fun, so I am thinking of getting a power planer.

[John Bailey]

I've always found that it takes a bit of talent to use a jointer. Having no talent, I have no jointer!!:(

John

[Chip Lindley]

John, with practice, you too could be a proud and productive jointer user! It does take some finesse to "read" a board and flatten one side first, then put a straight edge on the board.

The jointer is the First machine rough lumber should meet (unless a board need be cross-cut to length OR ripped to workable width) The jointer is the first machine I learned to master, to turn sawmill lumber into something Nice! As I developed a little "finesse" junk lumber (palletes, railroad car dunnage) became usable hardwood! I was amazed at the transformation as grey/weathered quickly became beautiful/figured!

I bought my planer first, (Rockwell RC33) and ruined some perfectly good red oak by planing everything to 3/4" BEFORE removing twist or bow. I had many warped/bowed/twisted planks which were somewhat useless. But soon the *light bulb* came on!!

My first jointer was an old 6" Milwaukee/Delta with 32" bed. I flattened miles of oak on that little machine. the 6 width was adequate for 99% of everything I did. The short bed caused me to learn HOW to use the machine. Supporting long stock was a Must. I graduated up to a Rockwell 6" with 46" bed. WOW! These two jointers handled everything in my small shop for 25 years.

I can remember ripping boards to be rejoined only a few times to fit the jointer width. Now I covet my 8" Delta DJ20. The long bed is more useful than the width, I feel, for my work. Should I get into entrance- and interior-door making, a 12" or larger would be much appreciated!

The jointer is THE MOST important woodworking machine for processing rough lumber ( IMHO ) The thickness planer is #2. We all know there are several ways to achieve the same results in woodworking, with tools available, BUT if you never used a jointer, you have missed out in getting a deeper appreciation for hardwood, and learning how to *bend* it to your own Will!

I am Thankful for my jointer! Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours !!

[Angus Hines]

SInce I'm sort of looking and toying with buying a jointer. I'm stuck with just one Question now.

What type of cutter head is best? Spiralhead, 4 knife head ? I guess with the price difference they are trying to convince me the spiralhead is better. If so why?

Ok that was 2 questions sorry?

[Sonny Edmonds]

... you may not use it all that much.
I don't use mine that much, really. But...
(There is always a but, isn't there?)
When you need one, your alternatives are rather bleak.
Get out a big hand plane, or a couple of sanders, and work forever to get a board sorta ready.
Primarily, the jointer's use is just as Jim described. Stock prep from rough cut boards. One face, and one edge, as close to 90 degrees as the woodworker setting it up can make it.
Some woodworkers do it all the time, and to them a grand sized jointer is a very valuable tool.
Others, not so needed and we get by fine with a smaller jointer.
I've used my little Delta Pro model 6" for lots of things besides board prep. So it has value to my shop. I've even set it up to use my feeder on. Almost never do, but I can.
You need a jointer because you are working with 8 fingers without one. Your shop has something of a good asset missing from it.
How big is pretty much up to you and your needs, and budget.
If it was me, well, I'd get one with one of them new fangled spiral cutter heads. Probably an 8" wide one.
But I'm happy with what I have and for the amount I use it.
You'd find it a valuable tool for your shop. It works with your planer and table saw. :rolleyes:

[glenn bradley]

Mainly just to be a contrarian:

What about using a planer with a sled to flatten the first face?

A sled (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=58735) got me by for a year and a half. Certainly not as quick and easy as walking up to your jointer and going at it but, very serviceable.

[Neal Clayton]

SInce I'm sort of looking and toying with buying a jointer. I'm stuck with just one Question now.

What type of cutter head is best? Spiralhead, 4 knife head ? I guess with the price difference they are trying to convince me the spiralhead is better. If so why?

Ok that was 2 questions sorry?


a) spiral head knives are self-leveling and self-centering, so they can be changed by a mildly retarded monkey with no extra tools (monkey not included)
b) spiral head knives last about 4x as long before they need to be changed, per edge, and they have 4 edges so more like 16x the use of a set of spiral blades versus a set of straight ones.
c) the preferable spiral heads cut by shearing action, so they tear less than straight knives on difficult to cut woods

[Marcus Ward]

Supposedly knives give a better finish. I imagine this is only useful if you refuse to sand or do anything to your lumber after it comes out of the planer. Those spiral heads are hecka expensive though, I've fed miles of oak through my planer and it's great (regular knives) but I don't work with highly figured woods or exotic lumber either. Some really good advice in this thread.

[Ron Bontz]

Just my 2 cents. Having a jointer cut down on my time spent on the table saw tremdously. Some passes across my DJ20 and that 8 foot board is nice and straight on edge or flat on face. Time is always important even if it is a hobby. I am slow as it is. As far as gluing multiple boards together... I prefer to rip/ joint / and glue up several 6" pieces rotating grain. There have been alot written on this. Best of luck.:)

[Curt Harms]

Yes, the jointer/planer combo mention was more to introduce the idea of a possibility than anything else. It is a nice video to watch, however.

One could purchase a nice jointer and planer for well under what one of the combos would cost.

True, but 12" jointers ain't cheap. OTOH, most 12" jointers have long beds. There's also the space required factor. I've also heard rumors somewhere-can't remember where-about Jet and/or Grizzly coming out with 10" J/P combos for less than $1,000. Even if they were a little over $1,000 it'd still be interesting. Some like vanilla, some like chocolate, some like pistachio, it's all good:D

[Barry Vabeach]

Angus, you said you wanted to buy a jointer and wanted to know what heads were best. AFAIK, your current options include 1. straight high speed steel blades, usually 3 blades ( the cheapest option). 2 I assume someone offers a jointer with a tersa or quick change blades - same cutting as option 1, but the blades can't be sharpened and instead are replaced ( often you can use 1 side, then the other, then replace ) 3. the next step up is individual cutters in a spiral - byrd, shelix, etc. so instead of 3 blades, you may have over 50 individual cutters mounted around the head - each of the cutters usually is 4 sided - so you don't sharpen the cutters, instead you rotate to the next side, when you run out of sides, you replace the cutters. The cutters are typically carbide, so they last a long time. Benefits of this type of cutter is less noisy, no fussing setting with knives, better surface on tricky grain, and for the hobbyist, likely that the inserts will last your lifetime. Looking at the Grizzly 8 inch jointer, the cost diff between 1 and 3 is $275 - which for many people would be worth it. OTOH, manufacturers have been making jointers for a long time with option 1, tons of us have them and they work fine, especially for a hobby, and on a budget, the extra $275 could get you some other much needed equipment. A lot of posters here do woodworking as a business, for them the benefits of the spiral probably far outweigh the costs. For the weekend woodworker on a budget, the straight knives will do a fine job and the $275 will get you part way to a planner.