Tablesaw vs Bandsaw (for the Handtool shop)

[John Dykes]

This is a hand tool question... really.

I've been making saw dust for about 10 years now. My first stationary tool was a Unisaw - that has since been sold off (.COM bust and moving cross country). It was replaced with a Delta contractor's saw.

The more I work with hand tools, the less I use the table saw. I'm trying to think how it's used.... Basic "rough" ripping, sheet stock - and that's about it. Everything I do is fine tuned with hand tools.

So as my hand tool skills increase, the less reliance I have on a "super-accurate," well tuned table saw. But I do find myself wishing I had a bandsaw - to take my work to the next level. Curves, cabriole legs, resawing...

I've always owned a tablesaw... Always. But never even touched a bandsaw.... I don't have the capital (financial nor spousal) for both. I'm leaning heavily towards selling my tablesaw and accessories and buying the G0513x2 bandsaw.

For someone trying to focus on hand tools (in a blended shop), does this thinking make any sense? Or should I be slapped (well, in reference to getting rid of my tablesaw)? Guess it's like letting go of my woodworking blankie....

(I do have a circular saw w/ a guide...).

Thoughts?

- jbd in Denver

[Ben Fleis]

I have both, and there are only 2 operations for which I really prefer the tablesaw. One of them is a square cross cut, which you can do on a shooting board... although if the TS is not well set, a shooting board is a good idea afterward regardless. The other operation is a parallel rip. The BS will rough rip nicely, but if you want something strongly resembling a parallel line, either a TS or a thicknesser save lots of work. I suppose cutting miters is also nice on a TS, although I have always finished them on donkey ears or some other hand apparatus.

If I could only have one, I would probably choose the BS as well... but spend the time to tune it to sublime sweetness.

-b

[Marcus Ward]

Definitely a bandsaw. I sold my tablesaw to buy my bandsaw and don't regret it a bit. I'm a mostly handtool shop and the bandsaw suits that method of working a lot more than the table saw does. I believe it's been said that the table saw was originally for cutting sheet goods and all the uses we adapt it for are derivations of that purpose. The bandsaw is the tool for whole lumber. I can get parallel cuts, within a few thousandths at least, easily with my bandsaw. Grizzly G0513x2.

[Luke Townsley]

Part of this equation could depend on how much you can sell your your table saw for. Sometimes used tools are hard to sell and don't bring much compared to their new replacement value.

The corollary to this thought is to remember that used tools can sometimes be a great buy.

[Wallis Hampson]

If you have or could get a jointer or at least a jointer plane and a smoother plane, then definitely the bandsaw. Cleaning up the rough edges left by a bandsaw would be a piece of cake. Without that ability, you will likely get frustrated after all the years of smooth edges from your tablesaw.

[Chris Padilla]

Ripping thick planks of solid lumber on a BS is a lot less scary than doing the same on a TS. I find myself using my BS more and more but I don't think I'm quite ready to give up on the TS just yet.

I cut down sheet goods with a guided circular saw and typically fine tune those cuts on the TS.

[travis howe]

I vote bs... I had a nice bs while having a poor ts and used it whenever I could...like other say, it's a lot less scary!;)

Unless you have the need for a lot of wide stock then I'd say you can do a lot more w/ a nice bs and the right blade for your work.

[Michael Faurot]

Like others have posted, I find I don't use my tablesaw all that much, and instead I am using my bandsaws (14" and a 9") for most things. What I do use the tablesaw for these days is either to do purely ripping operations or to manipulate sheet goods.

The bandsaw and hand plane works out to be a great combination. After making a cut with the bandsaw, I can quickly clean up the surface with a handplane.

[Jim Becker]

I think that if I were going to do largely Neander work with some occasional power assist, I'd probably want a decent band saw and a so-called bench top planer to cover ripping and general thicknessing of lumber, respectively. While both functions can obviously be done without electron-powered tools, these two accommodations would allow a lot more time to be available for the real finesse work that Neander techniques offer and so many folks thoroughly enjoy.

[Jules Martin]

I have only a garden-variety 14" bandsaw now. I did suffer through a bad tablesaw, now gone. I set up the BS like Michael Fortune showed in FWW mag, and it is a terrific tool. I think the BS is the most machine you can get for the money. It is very nice to be able to make parallel faces, but if you learn how to use one reference face and edge then you usually don't need any other super-parallel faces. I will admit to often making parallel edges by passing stock between a straight router bit and the fence, after planing a reference edge and bandsawing within 1/32 of the other line. Not very neander, but very fast and accurate and a great convenience. I say do get a bandsaw, it doesn't need to be the best. It can be amazingly versatile and precise, as well as easy and relaxed to use.

[David DeCristoforo]

As many have already pointed put, a band saw can be an extremely versatile machine that can be used to perform many of the operations one would typically look to a table saw for. Ripping can be done on a bandsaw as well as resawing. If you machine is well tuned with a fine sharp blade, even a planner can be considered "optional". But try cutting dados on a band saw! Or rabbet cuts. Or slotting edges. Or a ton of other things you can do with a table saw. These machines are not interchangeable and, truthfully, If I had to choose only one, I would be hard pressed to decide. I can tell you this much. If I did choose the band saw I would want a really good quality machine with at least an 18 - 20 "throat" and a minimum of 12" of resaw capacity.

[Marcus Ward]

You know, David, I thought about that. Any of the operations that make the table saw more attractive, I can do on a router table, so it was easy to get rid of. Rabbits and slots gave me a moment of panic till I realized I had a router table.. .duh. I almost never used it when I had the table saw. Also don't forget a rabbet, router, and dado plane will do a lot as well.

I don't find the planer as necessary these days for thicknessing lumber as I can resaw pretty easily on the bandsaw to within very close tolerances and then just hand plane it to where it needs to be. Getting a good bandsaw is paramount in this. I'm almost (!) able to square up edges as well as my jointer can but I don't trust myself 100% on that yet, so I still love my jointer.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi John

Go for the bandsaw.

I bought my current tablesaw about 12 years ago. It was the best I could afford then (12" blades and 2 hp motor), and a definite improvement on the previous, basic one. It incorporates a large sliding table, and so it really is a wonderful tool for cross cutting in addition to ripping.

It rarely gets used. When I packed up the workshop into a container (in preparation for an addition) at the beginning of this year, I continued working with just a few handtools and the bandsaw as my only power assistant. I never missed the tablesaw.

I have recently upgraded my bandsaw, which was a 14" Ridgid wiith 6" riser and 1 1/2 hp motor (the original motor was 3/4 hp). The Ridgid was a nice machine, very mobile, and capable of resawing 12" thick Tasmanian Oak, a moderately hard wood. However the taxman gave me an unexpected refund about 3 months ago, and Lynndy said "It's a gift - put into the bandsaw of your dreams"! So I bought an Austrian-made Hammer N4400, which is 18" and 4 hp. Oh Man! Resawing is effortless, as is ripping (same thing really), and all I am left to do is run a handplane over the boards to clean them up. The tablesaw is almost completely forgotten.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Power%20Tools/Hammerbandsaw1.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Dykes]

Eh, think that about settles it...

I'll be selling the Delta contractor's saw (and the many accessories) in order to fund a bandsaw purchase. I'll be learning to use the 25% Microsoft "Cashbash" here shortly towards a G0513x2 (regardless of the fact that Mr. Cohen has already crushed my hopes of having a "real" bandsaw!) - unless I can be taught otherwise!

Let me also say - you folks are truly invaluable to me. Oft times I feel like I stumble along blindly and alone here in Denver. I always hope to be a better craftsman, and this group, without fail, provides a lamp unto my feet (stealing from the Psalmist).

Warmest regards,

- jbd in Denver

[Marcus Ward]

John, if you ever make it 600 miles East to the KC area, you can stop in here and I'll let you make 1mm veneers from oak and walnut so you can make sure it's a 'real' saw. ;)

[David Keller NC]

"I'll be selling the Delta contractor's saw (and the many accessories) in order to fund a bandsaw purchase. I'll be learning to use the 25% Microsoft "Cashbash" here shortly towards a G0513x2 (regardless of the fact that Mr. Cohen has already crushed my hopes of having a "real" bandsaw!) - unless I can be taught otherwise!"

John, if funds are short, it'd be well worth your time to look for a used bandsaw. So long as the motor and wheel bearings are good, almost everything else about the machine is very easily and inexpensively fixed or tuned up. Even the wheel bearings aren't too tough if you're handy - it just takes a trip to an automotive shop with a press to get the old ones out. Some older machines don't even require that - the bearings are held in with split rings.

[Wilbur Pan]

But try cutting dados on a band saw! Or rabbet cuts. Or slotting edges. Or a ton of other things you can do with a table saw.

Not to start an argument, but John did say he was focusing on hand tools, and since he was at WIA, I'm sure he now knows that for a dado and slotting edges you can use a plow plane, and for a rabbet you can use a rabbet or fillester plane, depending on the grain orientation.

John, it looks like you've already made your decision, but I'd like to add that my shop is small enough that I had to make the decision between bandsaw and tablesaw, and I went with the bandsaw, and have never regretted it. If you are still interested in cutting plywood, I tried a 10 TPI bandsaw blade on a lark, and it left a really nicely cut surface, although it doesn't really work that well on solid wood.

I would also strongly consider getting the biggest bandsaw you can fit into your shop, since bigger bandsaws actually consume little additional floor space than small ones. I would also look for used machines, if you want to save money. They can be fixed up quite nicely. There's not much that can go wrong on a bandsaw.

[Doug Shepard]

Eh, think that about settles it...

I'll be selling the Delta contractor's saw (and the many accessories) in order to fund a bandsaw purchase. ...


Better rethink that. The TS gives much you more usable horizontal surface to collect stuff than a BS ever will. Now where ya gonna put it all?:D

[Roger Bell]

For furniture, the TS is useful to have around and will be used, even with a mostly HT approach. Since my work went more into the turning end of the craft, I use the BS far, far more.

If I were to have only a BS, and no TS, it would definitely have to be a big one with plenty of HP. Otherwise you will be handicapped as to what you can do. I have two small BS's as well but they are of very limited use.

You might consider keeping a smaller, cheaper benchtop TS around regardless. Doesn't take up much room when stored and would be handy to have around. I am thinking of home improvement projects where you are not doing the work for the fun of it....but just to get it done and over with.

[Greg Cole]

John, if you ever make it 600 miles East to the KC area, you can stop in here and I'll let you make 1mm veneers from oak and walnut so you can make sure it's a 'real' saw. ;)

What Marcus said.
I too would gladly open my shop and let you grab some of the 10-12" wide maple I have and slice away. I love my 0513X2, but you'd have to pry my TS from dead cold fingers too. But that's directly related to my work habits and styles of doing.... matter of fact I have 2 TS's but only room for one in the shop.
Cheers.
Greg

[Danny Burns]

This is a hand tool question... really.

For someone trying to focus on hand tools (in a blended shop), does this thinking make any sense? Or should I be slapped (well, in reference to getting rid of my tablesaw)? Guess it's like letting go of my woodworking blankie....

(I do have a circular saw w/ a guide...).

Thoughts?

- jbd in Denver

Another approach that may be more towards hand tools is one of these might be helpful in the mid-term.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=GT-BOWSAW12&Category_Code=CGT

Sorta a hand powered bandsaw, neanderthallically speaking.

[Chris Schumann]

John, if you ever make it 600 miles East to the KC area, you can stop in here and I'll let you make 1mm veneers from oak and walnut so you can make sure it's a 'real' saw. ;)

While I'm sure the Grizzly's are very nice tools, I am very happy with my cheap Jet 14" with the open stand. I've made slices of apple just under 1mm.

A good blade will do wonders as long as the machine stays true and steady. If your budget demands it, you can do great work with a used or cheaper saw. If you decide you can buy better, it will be even easier to get great work out of one.

[Alan DuBoff]

If one was to pick one saw, the band saw would be the preferred, IMO. But why make the choice? When I use my machines, I want to get the task done fast, and a band saw doesn't make for the most efficient work in the sense that the edges will need to be hand planed and/or jointed for good fit, in many cases.

The one problem with a band saw is the limitation on the width it can cut, which is determined by the frame. A table saw does not have that limitation.

Speaking for myself, I like to get all the dimensioning done at once, so when I do that, I want to have the tools I need to get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. The table saw is invaluable in that regard.

I also feel the band saw is safer, but only in the sense of kickback, there is still plenty of danger with a cutting edge exposed and often a band saw has a hefty amount exposed...especially for re-sawing. This is to say, a band saw can cut hot dogs, so one must still be careful! :eek:

All that said, the stock being worked has a LOT to do with the tools being used. One can do dumb things on a band saw in a similar way they can on a table saw. There is no guide to being a responsible woodworker/craftsman, that is something we all need to learn for ourselves. If you work shorter stock for smaller projects, a band saw could work out well for that. There are also many things a table saw is just better for. I just like to get all my dimensioning done in quick order, get it out of the way, so that I can do the work I enjoy most...working it by hand. I also like to use a sliding compound miter saw for crosscutting any stock narrower than 12", a planer to thickness, a power jointer to square the edge, etc...and not ready to give any of them up, I use them all when I dimension my cut list. :)

[Marcus Ward]

Alan is crazy! Don't listen to him! All you need is a bandsaw and 27 hand planes. And a steamshovel! And a drum! And a couple of those fancy chisels. Oh wait, don't forget a mallet. Maybe one of those funny square pencils. But that's it! Really!

I'm kidding. Alan is not crazy, unless by crazy you mean really smart. Those are good points, especially the one about the band saw having limited cut capacity. However, I think that only applies if you use a lot of sheet goods. I use a circular saw with a 2x4 clamped to it over sawhorses for that. (Guided circular). I use sheet goods about once every 2.5 years so that's fine for me. I have a sliding compound miter saw too, and it's great for precise crosscuts. Sure I'd like to handsaw every thing but my masochism only goes so far. I still vote bandsaw over table saw, especially if you use a lot of real wood. If you work primarily in sheet goods, table saw wins every time.

[John Dykes]

Ordered the G0513x2 from eBay with a 10% coupon and 25% cashback = $750 delivered.

Now I have to sell the contractor's saw before it comes in....

Thanks for all the help.

- jbd in Denver

[Alan DuBoff]

Marcus,

I don't know how smart I am, but I have been known to be smart. :rolleyes:

We all need to find what works for us, and I continue to focus in on my own skills, solutions, and methods that fit for me.

John,

Good luck with the band saw! I've heard good things about the 513 but have never used one. As I said, if I was to have to pick one, it would certainly be a band saw, just that I don't want to have to pick, unless it's which one to use for the given task. Check out the WoodSlicer blades at Highland Woodworking, I find them a good value. If you have extra $$$s burning your pocket after WIA and the new bandsaw, check out the Lenox. You can get info over in General (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?f=3) to keep the topic police off our back! :)

[Don C Peterson]

John, if funds are short, it'd be well worth your time to look for a used bandsaw. So long as the motor and wheel bearings are good, almost everything else about the machine is very easily and inexpensively fixed or tuned up. Even the wheel bearings aren't too tough if you're handy - it just takes a trip to an automotive shop with a press to get the old ones out. Some older machines don't even require that - the bearings are held in with split rings.

Agreed. I bought my bandsaw (a 16" Walker-Turner) from an ad on Craigslist about two years ago for $400. It has a 2hp motor and that thing is solid, quiet, and powerful. It's not quite a Hammer, MiniMax, Laguna, etc... But it cost a small fraction of what those will set you back. There's just no way you could get that much bandsaw for that amount of money buying new. Of course it comes at the cost of patience and a bit of luck. I looked for a good bandsaw for almost a year before I pulled the trigger on that one...