Tell me if I'm wrong or right???

[mark page]

My son has been renting an apartment and has had no heat for appx a month. the local temps have ranged into the low teens here lately. The heat is an old boiler/steam style with the radiators that you have to "turn the knob". His repeated calls to the landlord for the last month has not gotten him anywhere's. My son has had no heat for over a month. My son has been freezing his "whatchamacallits off". Well, I called the landlord tonight with malice in my mind and informed him that something has to take place. I informed him that he has 3 days to fix the "said" problem or I will take it to court and bring in the housing authority. He got all offensive and insinuated that I was threatening him. I informed him politely that I was not threatening him but talking over a legal matter in a polite manner. It is now 11-24-08 and I informed him that the heat situation needs to be repaired by Thanksgiving day or I will persue other legal measures. He took offense thinking I was threatening him. Am I wrong or am I right? I figure I can call the MO Housing Authority to investigate. The hits just keep on comin":(

[Karl Brogger]

If he's paying rent, you're in the right in my opinion.

[David DeCristoforo]

Of course you are "right". So is he in a sense. You are "threatening" him. But a threat of legal action is not the same as a threat of bodily harm. It is not against the law to threaten legal action. So far, you are perfectly within your rights.

[Don Bullock]

You should legally be able to withhold the rend until the heat is fixed. You'll need to check the laws in your community on how to do it correctly.

[whit richardson]

You are in the right.. been there done that. I wouldn't wait and I wouldn't tell him I'm waiting. When I had a landlord that didn't provide what I was paying for I just called the local renters rights center and put in a complaint. He's really breaking the law in the rental contract (implied or a real paper) and providing sub-standard housing which is not allowed in any state. Most places are allowed an exception for repairs of a few days to maybe a week or two.

Don't hold back reporting this guy.

[Neal Clayton]

http://ago.mo.gov/publications/landlordtenant.pdf


The landlord should be responsible for
repairs caused by ordinary wear and tear and
natural forces such as the weather. Tenants
should pay for damages resulting from their
own negligence or the negligence of a guest.
If repairs are needed, ask the landlord to
make repairs within a reasonable period of
time. If repairs are not made, make a written
request for the necessary repairs and keep a
copy of the letter.
If the repairs still are not made, the tenant
may seek legal assistance. If the dwelling
becomes unsafe due to the repair problems,
the tenant should contact local health or
housing authorities.
If a tenant withholds rent payments until
repairs are completed, the renter may be in
violation of the lease and may be subject to
eviction.

Know the Landlord-Tenant Law
Under very limited circumstances, the
tenant may make repairs and deduct the cost
from rent if the tenant:
● Has lived on the property for at least six
months.
● Has paid all rent owed.
● Is not in violation of the lease.
● Has notified the landlord of the problem
and has allowed at least 14 days for the
landlord to respond.
● Has, at the landlord’s request, received
verification from city inspectors that the
problem violates city code.
If the landlord still does not fix the code
violation within 14 days of receiving the
city’s notice, then the tenant can proceed with
the repairs.
The amount of the repair must be verified
by receipts. In most cases, the cost of repair
must be less than $300 or one-half month’s
rent (whichever is greater), and can be
done once a year.it seems that missouri only cares about landlords, not necessarily tenants.

[Matt Meiser]

It sounds to me like you should contact the local health or housing authority this morning. But I've heard of them declaring apartments buildings unsafe meaning everyone had to move out immediately so you might want to have a backup plan in mind.

[Justin Leiwig]

Read his lease. If there is no provision for providing working order appliances and such as the heat, then you really don't have much recourse. In the meantime..i'd buy a space heater because you'll be lucky to have anything resolved until after the winter season is over.

[Phil Thien]

How long has the landlord owned the building? I wonder if he is having financial problems that are preventing him from getting work that needs doing, done.

[randall rosenthal]

no brainer.....stop paying rent untill its fixed....what about the other tenants...no one can be happy about no heat in sub freezing temps...have the whole building stop paying rent...we're not talkin about a leaky faucet here...it is potentially life threatening......this is the prime cause of fires in winter. get local agencies involved.......its not like its been off for a day.

[mark page]

An update: After the call last evening, the landlord sent a repair person over and they turned up the t-stat on the boiler. What little I know about boilers indicates that this will not fix anything. But it's a start. At least the L-lord acknowledged that I'm not playing around on this situation. The repair guy did tell my son that if it doesn't fix to call him tomorrow and round two will begin.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I've been both a commercial and residential landlord for 20+ years.

In most states, withholding rent for any reason breaks the lease and can get you tossed out on your ear via tenancy court ONLY. Most landlords don't do this if they are in the wrong 'cause the judge MAY side with the tenant if the problem is a defered maintenance issue. The judge can collect rents and pay to have repairs made. Rare, but I've heard of it.

The proper tenant recourse is to notify the authorities. You may then get court permission to affect repairs and withhold rent only until reimbursed for your costs. If the landlord is so broke he can't fix the problem, he MAY be in breach and you may move at your pleasure without penalty or make the repairs as above. Before making repairs, check to be sure the property isn't in foreclosure or under a tax lien - in which case you may get tossed out anyway.

This is a tough spot to be in.

[Angus Hines]

You are absolutely in the right. However, instead of giving advise from 5 states away, I will suggest you seek the counsel of an attorney in your area.

[Ben Rafael]

He needs to contact the Housing Dept or whatever the local dept is called where he lives. They can inform him of the proper course of action to take. This should not require an attorney to resolve.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

You are 100% right. and if that's his reaction, then he has no business being "in business" as a landlord.

I've heard (but I'm not sure) that here in Mass, "documented code violations" allow the renter to not have to pay rent until said violations are fixed. A working heating system, capable of keeping the residence at 67 during the day and 64 at night (or something like that) is required by code.

In the future, I'd suggest any correspondence like this take place by phone call but also by written letter (faxed or mailed - not sure if email is "admissable"). when you go to housing court, I'm sure being able to produce evidence that the owner was notified of a problem with get their attention....

[Sonny Edmonds]

... but I have to wonder why Dad has to get involved with this slum lord.
Can't Junior stand up for himself yet? And I'd have gotten an electric heater the first time I got cold. :rolleyes:
Or gone to fixing the boiler myself. Not hard to turn up a thermostat.
Who fooled with the thermostat?
I donno. :rolleyes: (But I'm not freezing my keester off anymore...) ;)

[John Schreiber]

You should legally be able to withhold the rend until the heat is fixed. You'll need to check the laws in your community on how to do it correctly.
I know that in Illinois, that's exactly the wrong thing to do. If you stop paying rent, you can be evicted with penalties. Then you loose any standing to try to make things better. If you continue to pay rent, you are maintaining your end of the bargain and may be entitled to damages for the non-receipt of an agreed upon service (the heat).

Not a lawyer or even close, but have worked with people in similar situations.

If there's a tenant union or other organization who represents renters, they will have good information and usually be free for basic legal work. If your son lives near a university, call their housing department, they may have contacts too.

[Jim O'Dell]

If the heat is part of the rental agreement, then by not fixing the problem, he is in violation of the contract. But hopefully they are on it now and will get it fixed, if the thermostat didn't take care of the problem. You'd think that many of the tennants would have been complaining. Jim.

[Don Bullock]

I know that in Illinois, that's exactly the wrong thing to do. If you stop paying rent, you can be evicted with penalties. Then you loose any standing to try to make things better. If you continue to pay rent, you are maintaining your end of the bargain and may be entitled to damages for the non-receipt of an agreed upon service (the heat).

Not a lawyer or even close, but have worked with people in similar situations.

If there's a tenant union or other organization who represents renters, they will have good information and usually be free for basic legal work. If your son lives near a university, call their housing department, they may have contacts too.

This may be another situation California has different laws for such problems. I know that here that there is a legal way to withhold the rent. Instead of it going to the LLord the money is held in trust by a renter's protection organization until the problem is fixed.

[mark page]

Still waiting to hear if the "t-stat fix" worked. But I have my doubts. As for Sonny's reply. Kids's now-a-days (I still call them kids even though they may be barely legal age) are so naive that I wonder how they can even manage on their own. I guess things are different now than when I was that age. Now my son has a lot of things on his plate as well as I do. He has the burden of trying to support all the rent for my daughter (which for the lack of better terminology, but no matter how hard it hurts me to say the truth, is only interested in drinking and partying every night and can't hold a job), and then good ole dad has to step in when needed. Amazing thing is my daughter's IQ is upper Mensa level, and a mind is a terrible thing to waste, but that's what's happening. I have a step-daughter married and moved out that is a straight-A student from high school and in college that could not reconcile a checking account if her life depended upon it. Physics, calculus, trig, algebra, etc comes easy but 3'rd grade math eludes her.
I guess I learned the ways of the world early in life. I was plowing fields at 9 years of age on a BF Avery tractor and learned at appx 11 years old that I can't BS anyone. I do believe that most kids now-a-days have a lot of "book" smarts but when it comes to common sense, there is something lacking.
But my kids are still my kids no matter how old they or I am, and I'll still do what I can to help them out when needed. If I feel any of them are getting the "short end" of the stick and need assistance, I will be the first one to get "scrappy".
Everyone have a good and happy turkey day!!!!!