first stab at new shop layout

[Bob Cooper]

i'd like some feedback on my first attempt at a shop layout. The size is fixed as the foundation is already established -- essentially i just built a house and poured the foundation for the garage and shop. The garage and workshop sit on a slope so the garage and workshop are on the same plane such that the workshop has a basement. Easier for me to include a couple pictures.

My biggest concern is probably the space between the 36" cabinets that run along one entire wall and the table saw (50" Delta Unisaw). The RAS is a beast...very large Dewalt.

[Larry Browning]

Seems to me that lumber rack is at the wrong end of the shop. It is always a good idea to have the lumber rack close to the door so you don't have to navigate thru the whole shop with large, long pieces of wood. Also, not sure how to fix it, but the TS/Workbench combo seems to sort of divides the shop into two rooms causing extra steps to get from one end of the shop to the other.

[Jim Becker]

I'll add that I think you'll find that finishing room to be way too small to be effective for anything outside of very small projects. It may be better to just use a temporary wall setup (tarp, etc) at that end of the shop for that purpose.

[Anthony Whitesell]

On the upper wall, will the miter saw, RAS, and planer all share the same work surface (ie., all at the same height)?

Is the spindle sander mobile? I'd be afraid of constantly bumping my elbows on the wall and of clearance for sanding longer parts.

I noticed the 20" planer is about 10' from the wall, but will it clear your table saw on the outfeed side?

Is the table saw really that wide? It only leaves one way around it which may make getting to the router table a long walk.

Will the door to the finishing room really be wide enough to get your larger projects in and of for sanding and finishing?

I almost want to ask if you thought about flipping the entire shop end-for-end (left to right) or rotating the table saw, atleast, to put the red workbench more towards the outside edge of the shop. I think that would make a larger square area than the L-shaped area which might be more functional.

[Bob Cooper]

Seems to me that lumber rack is at the wrong end of the shop. It is always a good idea to have the lumber rack close to the door so you don't have to navigate thru the whole shop with large, long pieces of wood. Also, not sure how to fix it, but the TS/Workbench combo seems to sort of divides the shop into two rooms causing extra steps to get from one end of the shop to the other.

larry...thanks but notice that there's a large barn style sliding door fairly close to the wood rack...right near the jointer.

[Bob Cooper]

Jim/Anthony...ok, i'll have to think about whether i'm just wasting space w/the finishing area. i could move it to the basement but i'm afraid that entire area will become the family storage area.

Anthony...to answer your questions
Most things will have the work surface on teh same plane. The planer however will be higher than the tablesaw. The mitre saw will be recessed. Yes the tablesaw is that big. i can't rotate it 90 degrees as i need 8' in front and behind it. I could turn it 180 and move everything else around with it...let me think about that. Too bad this shop is not 3' wider.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Anthony...to answer your questions
Most things will have the work surface on teh same plane. The planer however will be higher than the tablesaw. The mitre saw will be recessed. Yes the tablesaw is that big. i can't rotate it 90 degrees as i need 8' in front and behind it. I could turn it 180 and move everything else around with it...let me think about that. Too bad this shop is not 3' wider.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I did mean to rotate the table saw 180 degrees not only 90.

I saw Larry's comments about the main entrance vs. lumber storage. My assumption is that the lumber will be brought in through the barn style door and the Jointer moved out of the way. Correct?

A double door or bifold door for the finishing room may be an option for the finishing room. What I keyed on, and am not sure of it was on purpose or not, was the open area in front of the finishing room between the lumber and the planer. My thought was that you could move the piece in apply the finish and let it set. Then move it to the open area for sanding and back in for the next coat. I thought it was a pretty nice arrangement. If most of the wall the door is on was door, you could use a tarp for a temporary wall for the VERY large projects. On that note, I would think that a workbench and/or downdraft table at that end of the shop would also be required.

P.S. I'm in the process of expanding by basement shop (moving things out to a shed) and in the process of finishing a small coffee table (47x17x16) which is a large piece for me. So I'm finding and working through a lot of layout issues with my current shop as well.

[Art Mulder]

Looks crowded with that TS. Can you move it closer to the wall (on it's right) by maybe moving those 12" cabinets?

Those 36" deep cabinets make a huge impact, since the TS is so wide. Have you considered putting the cabinets on one of the short walls instead, to give more room to move around the TS ?

[Bob Cooper]

good news. I borrowed that table saw visio from somewhere on the net and just dropped it in w/o measuring (actually that's true w/all the tools so i need to check the rest). Turns out it was larger than reality. So i've resized it *and* taken a stab at flipping everything around like one poster mentioned.

How do these look? BTW the 36" deep cabinets are due primarily to the dewalt RAS...it's acutally a little deeper than that.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I have worked with many many CAD programs over the years. The problem with 2D programs is the lack of the dimension of height. I'm not sure how far down to the ground the lumber rack goes, but for the moment I'll assume it's just the upper half of the wall. With that said, accessing the lumber rack over the bandsaw might be tough. Might I make the suggestion to rotate the router table 90 degrees clockwise for better access and then swap the position of the router table and the bandsaw. I don't know if either are mobile, but the router table will shorter to reach over and, if mobile, tuck under the lumber rack.

[Bob Cooper]

Anthony, thanks...all those devices are mobile so i was just thinking i'd move them when i needed to get wood.

[Larry Browning]

larry...thanks but notice that there's a large barn style sliding door fairly close to the wood rack...right near the jointer.

I must have missed the part about the jointer being mobile. I saw the door, but also saw that the jointer was in the way, making the door sort of a non-door. How about moving the jointer to be next to the planer? That would unblock the door.

I really think you need to rethink the finishing room. I have a finishing room that is 10X14 and is sometimes too small and I end up doing the finishing work out in the main shop. Having a temporary "paint booth" type setup seems a better fit for you due to the limited space requirements. Ask yourself, how much time do I spend finishing vs building a project. For me, that is no more than 5-10 percent of the time at most. Do you want to dedicate that much of your shop space to something that is such a minor (time wise) part of what you do in the shop?

[Don Bullock]

First of all, congratulations on your pending shop. I know how exciting that is. For many of us it is a dream come true.


Anthony, thanks...all those devices are mobile so i was just thinking i'd move them when i needed to get wood.

I'm working on the same problem with my new shop. There have been several shops that I've seen where the lumber rack is over the miter saw station. The thought behind that is the lumber is usually cut to a rough length before it is jointed and planed or cut on a table saw. Anthony brings up a good point about access over the equipment which I'm going to check out before I make my arrangement permanent. My alternate is what you are doing by parking some mobile equipment in front of the lumber. The problem that I'm seeing with that approach is that to get to the wood I'm going to have to move equipment around. Minimizing the movement of tools is one of the reasons I'm building the shop so this arrangement may defeat that.

The problem I see with your lumber rack is that it's too short. Most of the boards I get are around 10' long, the longest I can fit in my van is 11'. I'm planning on using wall space that is about 12' long for my lumber. If I'm able to get lumber home that is longer I'll have about 20' of wall space above some cabinets I plan to put in the garage portion of my new building. You could eliminate the shelves next to the wood rack to make it longer, but a "better solution" might be to move the lumber rack so that the end extends over the bench next to the planer and put the shelves by the door. Yes, that would place the rack farther away from the door, but not significantly farther.

Like Anthony I also find that looking at arrangements in 2D is difficult to visualize. For my shop arrangement I'm playing around with a 3D program, but it is still different from actually being in the "real space." Even though I haven't moved any tools down to me new shop after it was built I made some big changes in how I think the machines, lumber rack and benches will fit in the space. I'm thinking that until I'm able to place the tools, which presently are all mobile, in the space I won't know which arrangement will be best for what I'm trying to do with my space.

While I realize that you are trying to maximize space by using the outfeed/router table as a workbench, I think you'll be disappointed that it's the only "free standing" workbench you have. I can foresee a problem with having a project on it and needing to use the table saw and or router table. I suggset using the space for the finishing room as a workbench area instead. I'd do that because the window would provide some natural light during the day and in my case it will provide me with a good view while working at the bench. From the looks of your beautiful home site I'll bet you have a super view from those windows.

[Art Mulder]

I agree with a lot of Don's comments.
- I also get 10' long wood frequently, so a 12' space for the wood rack would be a good idea
- I also think you'd be happier with the workbench (and/or assembly table) being separate from the TS. Instead I would suggest a smaller outfeed table (perhaps folding, if space is an issue) and a separate workbench.

- I also suspect that having large tools in front of the wood rack will become irritating

Oh and another thing... if you really want that finishing room, I'd put it in another corner. My reason for that is to free up that window so it benefits the whole shop.

Also, in the first layout with the smaller TS template ... if you move the Jointer a bit, then you can walk around BOTH sides of the TS. As it stands, there is only a very narrow passage between the Jointer and TS.

[Bob Cooper]

thanks...you're giving me much to think about. As a result you'll have to put up with me thrashing around with various layouts. :)

Couple things i'm hearing the loudest is 1) longer lumber rack (note i'm planning on using this for both sheet goods and lumber...but also i do have some storage under the shop for bulk storage). 2) finishing room is just not big enough to be useful. 3) may want a seperate assembly table <-- i would like to have a small table that can rotate/roll for assy.

Also...i'd like to have an area dedicated for sharpening stuff and i'd also like to have a sink.

question...is 36" too deep for the counter? I know i need it that deep at the big RAS but i could drop back to 24 or 28" for the rest of the counter?

any preference for the first vs. the second layout?

[Von Bickley]

Bob,

Where are you at in Columbia?

[Bob Cooper]

Von...i just built a house on the broad river in Irmo. You'd take exit 97 (the peak exit) off of I-26. Come by sometime.

[Richard Lewis]

Bob, I definitely think the second (reversed) layout is much more practical than the first ones you showed. All the time you spend planning now will pay dividends!

[Art Mulder]

thanks...you're giving me much to think about. As a result you'll have to put up with me thrashing around with various layouts.

That's half the fun (for us) Bob, :rolleyes: We can't afford to build all kinds of shops on our own, so we get to have fun designing someone else's shop, and then see it come together.


question...is 36" too deep for the counter? I know i need it that deep at the big RAS but i could drop back to 24 or 28" for the rest of the counter?

any preference for the first vs. the second layout?I like the second one better, but it still isn't what I would do.
Here, Bob, I took your image and hacked at it in a drawing program. This is the sort of thing that *I* would consider if it was my shop.
102018

1- consider putting the RAS + Miter saw on a bench on a short wall.
2- Consider putting the lumber above and below that bench (not easy to see in the drawing, since I was just using cut-n-paste on the graphics.
3- sheet goods could stand nearby beside the jointer.
4- move the jointer/planer/TS closer to the right end of the shop, gives more room on the left.
5- put the small planer + Spindle sander on mobile bases -- I'm not exactly sure where they would fit the best. Ditto the BS + DP
6- smaller outfeed table
7- get rid of the finishing room
8- now look at all the room on the left side! room for a workbench along the wall, as well as an assembly table (Possibly a lower table, on wheels, depending on what you like.) You might put the clamps closer, or even under the assembly table. This is the area I would use for finishing. With the window there you can put in an exhaust fan when needed.
9- For Now, DO NOT commit to all those wall shelves... fit those in later once you decide on the major layouts.

(Like I said, this is my opinion, you need to do what works with your style and resources and goals. I'd probably continue to poke at this and so on. For instance, if you mostly use the big planer, then I'd tuck the small planer down on a shelf somewhere out of the way, maybe under the outfeed table.)

With DC under the floor though, you probably want to be pretty certain about where you plan to put the TS and Large Planer.

...art

[Bob Cooper]

Art...wow...thanks for taking so much time. Now my concern with putting the RAS on that wall is it really limits you in how long of material you can cut. For example if it put it right in the middle of that wall i could never cut anything longer than 7.5'...so i'd probably move it off center.

Also i kind of hesitate putting wood storage above the RAS as seems like it would be almost impossible to access. I'd have to climb up on the bench. And there's no way to store wood under it as this beast has a huge metal base that's part of it.

(now that i'm replying i can't look at your figure)...one thing we have to watch is the distance from the planer or joiner and any wall...i need a good 9' or 10'...so i can't move it too close to that right hand wall.

Oh yea, both the small 12" planer and the osc sander probably will be located under that workbench. i just stuck 'em up there to account for them.

Once again..thanks. i'll study your feedback some and post a refinement soon.