New Planes are out! Not for the squeamish!

[Danny Burns]

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?p=61963&c=2

Real beauties! ...and the price is right!

I wonder who will get there's first!

[Eddie Darby]

This is someone who owns one already!

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28105&highlight=

I really like the plane sock the best!;)

[Danny Burns]

Opps! Sorry about that one, as I see that it has been posted by others at the end of the thread, but was under 'more replies'.:o

[alex grams]

They look nice, though that bag they come in reminds me of a Crown Royal bag. Maybe they could do a cross promotion with Crown? I take that they are both Canadian as being a sign from God that they should!

mmmmm.. I should be in marketing!

[Montgomery Scott]

After looking at them this morning I'm rather underwhelmed; another block plane. I was hoping there would be something different they'd be offering. I suppose if one did not already have a nice block plane this would be well worth considering, but I already have an LV block plane that I like well enough.

[Dusty Fuller]

I'm going to have to sit and think about this one for a little bit before giving my humble and non-important thoughts...

[Brent Smith]

My order is in.......Now Rob, it's time to start throwing some trick stuff at us....maybe a Veritas #55.........hmmm.

[Jim Becker]

Wow...they look, umm....FAST! LOL I agree with the person that posted the picture of the Porsche in the other thread... :D

[David Keller NC]

Very interesting. It's good to see a Norris style adjuster back in production (it's not actually a Norris design - Stanley produced this adjuster in the 3rd quarter of the 19th century, it's not known why Norris was allowed to patent it). Done correctly (with extremely tight tolerances), the Norris adjuster is, in my opinion, a superior design to the more common Stanely style adjusters.

Some may find this amusing - this plane strongly reminds me of the Miller's Falls "Buck Rodgers" design of the 1950s.

[Mark Maleski]

Beautiful job, Veritas! I have no need for an additional LA block, but am excited to see this development and probably won't be able to resist as the rest of the line is rolled out.

[Russ Ambrose]

count me as underwhelmed. looks like just another block plane. i love my LV planes, but these "new" planes look like a lot of sizzle ("cool" colors, designs, and letter designations) and not much steak. i'm sure they're great planes (like all LV stuff), but i don't see what the fuss is about quite frankly.

[Derek Cohen]

these "new" planes look like a lot of sizzle ("cool" colors, designs, and letter designations) and not much steak.

Oh balderdash! :)

Here is my review ... The Veritas Premium Block Plane

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasPremiumBlockPlane.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Belair]

Maybe once I read ALF's and Derek's reviews I have more insight but I have to agree with Russ- seems to me to be more bling than substance. I'm frankly disappointed especially considering all the hype.

The improvements from my perspective are- set screw to avoid jamming toe into blade, captured adjuster and narrower body for those who found original LV block too chunky (and thus picked LN).

Sure I'd probably consider buying one, but only if I didn't have a block plane (OK, a few) already.

Jim B

[Derek Cohen]

Jim

How can you criticise something without knowing anything of the details?!

Amazing!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Dykes]

A free economy leads to $300 block planes. I think back to Berea...

One comment that came out from a highly regarded tool maker I took as, "Look - we make our tools much better than you could ever need. But you guys demand this type of thing, so we make it, and you buy it. We're happy to keep taking your money on all this preemo stuff you don't need. Heck, you're the one paying for it..."

Looks like a fine tool, but I'm not the target market.

I did happen to watch my new David Charlesworth DVD this weekend (twice). I have a few fine block planes, but technique is my pursuit - and my hope.

- jbd in Denver

[Rob Lee]

Hi John -

No argument from here... the only thing is will say is that all of the cost is right in front of you... there's not much margin in the product...

And we will continue to produce at both ends of the price spectrum...

Cheers -

Rob

[Jack Camillo]

Beautiful, really. Not something I can afford, but I bet they perform as well as they look. Kinda like a Porsch. Thanks for the dual lines so that the rest of us don't get pushed out of the hobby by the wealthy or reduced to the BORG tool crib crapola.

[Jim Belair]

Just giving my initial reaction to the plane Derek. Surely Rob & Co. value all opinions from the marketplace!

Cheers
Jim B

[Jim Koepke]

If the money was available to me, my choice would likely be this plane.

Having a few block planes, SWMBO will likely never be convinced this one is needed as much as it is coveted.

The design appears to have attained a pinnacle of ergonomic and functional engineering.

This tool looks to be an extension of the user's hand. The better the tool fits in the hand, the less the craftsman thinks about the tool and the more the work can flow from the heart.

Yes, they do seem a bit pricey, But there is not another plane with as much thought toward the user incorporated into its design.

Just my 2¢

jim

[Thomas Knighton]

Having a few block planes, SWMBO will likely never be convinced this one is needed as much as it is coveted.

Thanks for the reminder to not let my wife know what I actually own ;)

This is a beautiful piece, I can't wait until I can cough up the cash for one of these bad boys!

[Bill White]

like it should be on a road track somewhere. What is the 0 to 60 time?
Can-Am, Nurberg Ring, Watkins Glen?
Bill

[Gary Herrmann]

Beautiful plane. Tool as art. I've got the LV LA block - that was my first LV plane. If I need another, I'd probably get the standard angle or the apron plane. If I didn't have a block plane, I'd be sorely tempted by one of these. Can't wait to see what comes next.

[Luke Townsley]

Of course it's a plane! What did you expect? A rocket?

Seriously, there haven't been any truly earth shattering innovations in planes in years, maybe a couple of thousand years. Neanderthals have long realized the truth of that. Power tool wood workers, on the other hand, are always looking for something new.

Of course, the last few thousand years has taught us that not all planes are created equally. Neither are they all priced equally.

There are some things about this one that I really like. This one seems to have used modern materials and design to build solidly upon its ancient heritage.

Then again, I just like "new" old tools.

[John Schreiber]

. .Here is my review ... The Veritas Premium Block Plane

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/TheVeritasPremiumBlockPlanes.html . . .

Derek's review is quite helpful for me. I think it's nearly impossible to make a real improvement in the performance of a high quality block plane

The places to make a difference are:in preparation, so the product is finely and reliably tuned right out of the box; in features and in appearance.

I like the look, at first I thought it was over the top, and it reminded me of the Buck Rogers aluminum planes of years ago. Then looking at it next to the other planes in Derek's review, the other planes look boring and industrial, built without an aesthetic sense. One of the things I like about old tools is that they payed attention to appearance. I see that here. 21st century planes.

I wonder what will come next?

[Dave Anderson NH]

One thing that folks might notice if they compare the less expensive of the new Veritas planes is that the regular ductile iron version at $179 is only $14 more expensive than the current list price on the Lie-Nielsen low angle block plane which has gone up to $165. I would contend that for $14, the toepiece stop, the nicer ergonomics, and the better adjuster make this plane a good buy. For a low angle plane, I agree with Derek that I would like to see an iron available in O-1.

[Alan DuBoff]

They sure look like a great companion to the new stylish dovetail saw.:rolleyes:

I can't believe someone mentioned Porsche in the same breath as these planes. Obviously those folks don't own or drive a Porsche...:p

[gary Zimmel]

I just put my order in. Should be here in 2 weeks.

My wife wishes I didn't have this disease so bad.....

Going to be a long 2 weeks.

[eric auer]

Outstanding looking planes, Im glad someone took the time to be innovative, as that is what humanity should always strive to be.

Thanks LV.

[Doug Shepard]

One thing that surprised me was that the sides were square to the sole. It just looks so aerodynamic I was sure it wasn't. I had to read the LV webpage close and see Dereks review before I realized that you could use if with a shooting board. That's a very cool piece of work.

[Chris Friesen]

the only thing is will say is that all of the cost is right in front of you... there's not much margin in the product...

Rob, can you give an idea how much more expensive it is to use the rust-resistant cast iron? As a for instance, what would be the incremental cost of the existing low-angle block if you simply made the body from the new material?

I like the idea of reduced rust on hand tools, but I'm not sure I want/need all the extra polishing, stainless steel hardware, etc. (Although the captured adjuster and toe setscrew do make a lot of sense.)

Also, A2 usually does better at higher included angles...is there any chance of an O1 blade for these?

[Eddie Darby]

One thing that folks might notice if they compare the less expensive of the new Veritas planes is that the regular ductile iron version at $179 is only $14 more expensive than the current list price on the Lie-Nielsen low angle block plane which has gone up to $165. I would contend that for $14, the toepiece stop, the nicer ergonomics, and the better adjuster make this plane a good buy. For a low angle plane, I agree with Derek that I would like to see an iron available in O-1.

Good point!

I should hope that we will see toothed blades and O-1 blades in the near future. These additions initially came later when LV offered their first line of planes.

I like the tolerances, which are hard to appreciate until you need them.

I can see this plane being handed down for many generations.

Innovative without being gimmicky, which isn't easy to do.

I will be looking forward to seeing what the design team do next!

[Will Blick]

Very slick, excellent design Rob.... great review Derek, thank you...

So is the block plane the "new line" or will there be an entire line-up of new designs? Jack, Jointer, Miter, etc? Please advise ASAP!! :-)

[Mark Koury]

Could someone explain to me why the blade has curved side edges? It would seem that this choice only creates a hassle during sharpening. Is there some reason for it?

Mark

[Michael Gibbons]

Lee Valley makes fine tools and this one loks no different although I would have to hold it in my hand. I had a LV LAblock plane but bought it without first trying it out. Ended up being a little to big for my paws so I gave it to my son. And that was after I tried a LN. This one looks snazzy though...

[Mike Brady]

Derek,
How does one try one out without actually buying it?.....there are no stocking dealers (in the US) where we can do that. You had the benefit of using one a year ago apparently, so how can you call yourself unbiased and then criticize others.
I also find it a little hard to believe the tools were on hand in Berea and were kept under wraps. If LV wasn't willing to show what they've got to 500 of the most dedicated hand tool users in the world (yes even some Aussies), who were present, I have to think this tool is more about hype than substance. Just this weekend I attended another show with Lee Valley presence, and no planes or new saws there either. Sorry, I'm not prepared to buy just because you say I should, with all due respect.

[Roger Bell]

Reminds me of products coming out of the Golden Age of industrial design in the 1930's. When industry hired high end designers to make the appearance their otherwise ordinary products aesthetically cutting edge. It worked then....in the Depression.

Very classy. And a bold and welcome deviation from the traditional. Veritas really went all-out in that regard. Well done.

I look forward to more reviews concerning the qualitative, functional differences between these and their "older" line.

[David DeCristoforo]

Well I haven't used one of these and I probably never will. But to me it looks like it should have a "Nike" logo on it..... It would make a great visual match for those new cordless shoes... I mean drills.

[Derek Cohen]

how can you call yourself unbiased and then criticize others

Mike, I never said I was unbiased. I do aspire, however, to being objective. To this end I examine the evidence. Whatever my feelings and involvement, I make them clear to the reader, and then I weigh up the facts. I present the evidence for all to examine for themselves.

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. I criticised your comment for its lack of objectivity, that is all. You said ..Maybe once I read ALF's and Derek's reviews I have more insight but I have to agree with Russ- seems to me to be more bling than substance. I'm frankly disappointed especially considering all the hype.. If you had said what you said after reading the reviews or after handling the planes, I would have respected the conclusion you reached. Perhaps it was just the way you worded it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Keeton]

I am surprised at the negative comments on this plane simply from its appearance. For a bunch of guys that take a dirty, crappy looking chunk of wood that most non-woodworkers would call firewood, and create something of beauty - there are a lot of final assessments being drawn from nothing but a picture. You order $$$$ of wood on less information!

I go with Derek on this one. If you haven't used it, then you can't possibly comment on its function. He has, and is therefore qualified. I trust his assessment. Most of us do not have the opportunity to try tools prior to purchase, and must rely on the comments of others respected in the marketplace.

LV is obviously marketing to a different demographic. For those that must have a traditional plane in their hand or feel overwhelming guilt, then this plane isn't for them. And, I doubt LV intended this tool for that market - though they certainly would welcome any purchaser.

This thread is in the Neanderthal Haven. Were it in the General Woodworking forum, I am betting we would see a vastly more generalized acceptance.

But, for a new generation of woodworker, this is a beautiful piece of design, encompassing form and function, with some very innovative features. There are many non-neanders out there for which this will be a perfect match. I would count myself in that group, and am contemplating trading in my LN 60 1/2 for one.

[Danny Burns]

Derek,
How does one try one out without actually buying it?.....there are no stocking dealers (in the US) where we can do that. You had the benefit of using one a year ago apparently, so how can you call yourself unbiased and then criticize others.
I also find it a little hard to believe the tools were on hand in Berea and were kept under wraps. If LV wasn't willing to show what they've got to 500 of the most dedicated hand tool users in the world (yes even some Aussies), who were present, I have to think this tool is more about hype than substance. Just this weekend I attended another show with Lee Valley presence, and no planes or new saws there either. Sorry, I'm not prepared to buy just because you say I should, with all due respect.

I suspect that once enough people have tried out the planes, we will have more feedback, and the ball will get rolling, it just happens that right now, the ball is about the size of a ping pong ball, ..... :eek: Opps should I say 'Table Tennis' ball!

Sorry to offend any 'table tennis' enthusiasts! My apologies!:rolleyes:

Time will Tell.

[Rob Lee]

Hi -

Just a couple of quick observations...

I think people are getting hung up on the "Premium" aspect of this plane... it's not the design that's the premium... it's the material.

That's why there are two versions - you can see what the difference in material and finish costs... it's basically $100.

One of the reasons we went to a premium material, is corrosion resistance - and we (practically) had the choice of ferrous or non-ferrous material. We judged non-ferrous to be inappropriate for this plane (not suitable for the thin sections and low bed angle), so had to choose a ferrous material. We tested SS (the anniversary limited edition) and quickly figured out that we didn't want to use that ...

The version of ductile we used is more than 20% nickel, and contains significant chromium as well. Not inexpensive. And when you have a non-zero defect rate - you have to recover the cost of throwing away that expensive material, not to mention the lost machine/labor time...

But hey - you have the choice - there are two materials, two prices.

The ductile version also has uprgraded material (SS knobs and adjuster), the enclosed toe-piece, and is produced to tighter tolerances again... it costs a bit more than our standard block planes, but hey - you have a choice there too!

It's the price of a hockey ticket, three tanks of gas, or 15 cheap pizzas. It'll also last a lifetime - and retain much of it's value...

We can't tell you what's the best value for you - we can only extend your range of choices - and that's what this is all about...

Cheers -

Rob

[Douglas Brummett]

Rob, it is awesome that you come on here and discuss your products with us. I really am smitten with the features and aesthetics of these new planes. But it will take a bit of time to overcome my inner cheapskate. After spending an hour flattening the back of my newest block plane just last month I uttered the words, "hey, I would pay extra to have this already done". You have just raised the bar, thrown down the gauntlet, and left me to put my money where my mouth is. Well played :)

[Ben Davis]

They sure look like a great companion to the new stylish dovetail saw.:rolleyes:

I can't believe someone mentioned Porsche in the same breath as these planes. Obviously those folks don't own or drive a Porsche...:p
I guess you don't like the looks of the plane.

What color is your Porsche BTW?

[John Dykes]

It's the price of a hockey ticket, three tanks of gas, or 15 cheap pizzas.I wish I was married to a woman that would be swayed by such an argument! ;)

Respectfully,

- jbd in Denver

(Who recently opted to have his 20 pound Lee Valley order shipped to his office....)

[Will Blick]

I will try again.....

> So is the block plane the "new line" or will there be an entire line-up of new designs? Jack, Jointer, Miter, etc? Please advise ASAP!! :-)

[Alan DuBoff]

I guess you don't like the looks of the plane.

What color is your Porsche BTW?I didn't say about the looks one way or the other, but my Porsche is white. :)

The color is only on the outside, has very little to do with a Porsche, that was my point. When my Porsche was built, most of it was hand made, the leather was cut by hand, the fenders were shaped by hand, etc...sure, it's not entirely made by hand, but that's the way they built them in '84. Like everything in life, you have to take care of thing if you want them to last.

These planes remind me of a Saturn, in that regard.

[mike holden]

Alan,
Re: Porsche vs Saturn.
I have had the dubious pleasure of being the quality manager of an automotive supplier, and have supplied to GM, Ford, Chrysler, BMW, Honda, Toyota, Isuzu, and Saturn.
Saturn was the hardest of all to satisfy.

Re: the planes.
If you are referring to the styling, well that is personal preference.
If you are referring to the functionality - well then, on what do you base your comments? Have you used the plane?

It may not be your cup of tea, but that is no reason to disparage it.
If you have some reason to think it has a design flaw, then please let us know.
Mike

[Eddie Darby]

I will try again.....

> So is the block plane the "new line" or will there be an entire line-up of new designs? Jack, Jointer, Miter, etc? Please advise ASAP!! :-)

If this is the only plane then it wouldn't be a 'new line' but more like a 'new dot'.:eek:

[Ian Roth]

All I can say is that I'm sorry (well sort of) I just got the LV standard block plane for my birthday last month :rolleyes:

Ian

[Alan DuBoff]

Re: the planes.
If you are referring to the styling, well that is personal preference.
If you are referring to the functionality - well then, on what do you base your comments? Have you used the plane?
No, I was referring to the way they are manufactured. These appear to be almost done entirely by machine. These parts are machined by a computer, from the appearance.

It may not be your cup of tea, but that is no reason to disparage it.
I wasn't trying to disparge them, just don't see the reference to them as being a Porsche. They look like quality planes, not trying to dis them, they just do not meet that standard from the looks of them.

If your talking about looks alone, I guess you can safely say they kinda sorta resemble a modern Porsche, the ones that are not made by hand anymore. :)

OTOH, you could say they look like modern running shoes also...

EDIT: I would like to point out that to me, the most significant element of these new planes is the NX version, in that it actually uses better material that is more corrosion resistant. That is a very good reason to improve the material. That is an improvement over what has been done in the past.

[Jamie Cowan]

I think they look great. The adjustable mouth looks fantastic. The new planes look solid and well-built. I'm really impressed that a company would chose to put so much work and care into their products, as I'm sure they are aware that they could farm work out to the third world for a fraction of the price. The result would be a fraction of the quality, but they would sell more. Nice job, Veritas. I'll but it eventually (after Christmas).

[Richard Magbanua]

For a more complete story about this plane and others to come check out Chris Schwarz's blog. Nice interview with Mr. Lee himself. I warn you though, you will be teased with the mention of the forthcoming premium bevel-up jack and smoother, a carcase saw, and four planes under $100 :eek: He answers many questions but leaves us with many more...

http://popularwoodworking.com/article/veritas_premium_block_planes

Happy Thanksgiving!!!

[Kevin Murdock]

Wow.... after looking at that article on Popular Woodworking I have one thing to say to Rob Lee:

Did the guys who designed Concept 2b and 4 leave and go to design the new Stanley planes? :p

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/New+Premium+Handplanes+From+Stanley+Works+.aspx

I notice a slight, all be it slight, similarity. :rolleyes:

[Will Blick]

> Did the guys who designed Concept 2b and 4 leave and go to design the new Stanley planes?

Excellent observation!!!! I wouldn't doubt this actually occurred, unless their is a lot of closet plane designers in the world :-)

[James Mittlefehldt]

Hmm, 1/4, 3/8 and 5/8 miniature shoulder planes, a new plane for which there is no Stanley precedent, a small scraping plane plus a carcass saw.

Hang on to your seats boys and girls it's gonna be quite a ride.

[Rob Lee]

Hmm, 1/4, 3/8 and 5/8 miniature shoulder planes, a new plane for which there is no Stanley precedent, a small scraping plane plus a carcass saw.

Hang on to your seats boys and girls it's gonna be quite a ride.

Yeah...

... and he didn't even metion the beader and 'shave....

Mind you - I didn't tell him everything either...!

Cheers -

Rob
(PS - I think the 5/8 should be 5/16"... :D )

[Rob Lee]

Wow.... after looking at that article on Popular Woodworking I have one thing to say to Rob Lee:

Did the guys who designed Concept 2b and 4 leave and go to design the new Stanley planes? :p

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/New+Premium+Handplanes+From+Stanley+Works+.aspx

I notice a slight, all be it slight, similarity. :rolleyes:


Hi Kevin -

I think Stanley went to school on our current block (which of course, was developed by going to school on other blocks...). We, of course, used our own as a starting point for the concepts...

Cheers -

Rob

[Mark Singer]

I think its great that tools are evolving and new designs are on the boards. I don't feel pressure to buy all the new designs, I love the planes I have many are Veritas. .... just nice to see where its all going

[Brent Smith]

Hmm, 1/4, 3/8 and 5/8 miniature shoulder planes, a new plane for which there is no Stanley precedent, a small scraping plane plus a carcass saw.

Hang on to your seats boys and girls it's gonna be quite a ride.

So who wants to join the 'I hate Rob Lee club' :). I tell ya Rob, I'm never going to get my retirement package in order if I have to keep shelling out money to LV :(, and now you've gone and started the next round of "what have I got up my sleeve' (a new plane for which there is no Stanley precedent). You can be a very cruel man Mr. Lee :p.

[Mike Cutler]

Those are some nice looking planes Rob. I like the ergonomics built into the contours. No place for the side of your hand, or pad of a finger to catch a leading, or trailing edge. They must feel great in the hand.

Nice work.

[Rob Lee]

So who wants to join the 'I hate Rob Lee club' :). I tell ya Rob, I'm never going to get my retirement package in order if I have to keep shelling out money to LV :(, and now you've gone and started the next round of "what have I got up my sleeve' (a new plane for which there is no Stanley precedent). You can be a very cruel man Mr. Lee :p.

Well - Brent, on the other hand.... there may be a very good reason there's no precedent:D:eek:....but I don't think so. We have a functional prototype - and it looks like it's going to do what we want...It's at least a year away though... so you're safe from that one..

'Course - we're only talkin' planes here.... we DO have lots of other tools underway... there will be at least 3 new bench products, including our new Tail Vise...


Cheers -

Rob
(doing his part to help restore the balance of payments....)

[Brent Smith]

Well - Brent, on the other hand.... there may be a very good reason there's no precedent:D:eek:....but I don't think so. We have a functional prototype - and it looks like it's going to do what we want...It's at least a year away though... so you're safe from that one..

'Course - we're only talkin' planes here.... we DO have lots of other tools underway... there will be at least 3 new bench products, including our new Tail Vise...


Cheers -

Rob
(doing his part to help restore the balance of payments....)

Just so long as you remember Rob, when I end up living in a cardboard box under the Lee Valley loading dock, that I gave my all to protect the jobs of all the Lee Valley employees :D ;).

Any chance you'll drop a clue as to what the mystery plane will do?????? :cool:

[Rob Lee]

(snip)

Any chance you'll drop a clue as to what the mystery plane will do?????? :cool:

Yes - I'd say there's an excellent chance....:p:D

Cheers -

Rob

[Thomas Knighton]

Yes - I'd say there's an excellent chance....:p:D

Cheers -

Rob

Rob,

You are an evil, evil man.

I totally respect that in a person :D

Tom

[John Sanford]

Visually, the NX reminds me of a Victory Vision, a 21st Century blast of Art Deco industrial design. Stunning. Of course, when I tested the Vision, I wasn't enamored with it. The underwhelment, however, had more to do with the limitations of the basic platform (cruiser ergonomics and V-twin engine) than with the design and execution within those parameters.

I will often flip my LN around and pull it, can anybody who has gotten their mitts on the NX give some feedback on how the curvaceous shape fits in the hand for pulling?

Sadly, the next block plane I was probably going to purchase was a standard, as I've already got a low-angle LN. Hopefully, a standard angle NX is in the pipeline..... :D (gotta get a shoulder plane first tho!)

[John Shuk]

Looks like LV really raised the bar here.
Thanks for making such great stuff and being such a great company to deal with.