Has Woodworks Been Canceled?

[James White]

I was just checking out the DIY Network's web site.The upcoming episodes box is blank. There is no mention of up coming seasons as well. Don't tell me they will be replacing it with more episodes of Cool Tools!

James

[Jim Becker]

There have been no new episodes of Woodworks for a few years now...everything that was showing on DIY was from back then. Recently, some others posted that it was falling off the schedule...and the last air date for an episode on the DIY site was back in October.

[James White]

Thank you Jim. I was not aware of that. Once in a while I have time to watch TV and would luck out when NYW or Woodworks happen to be on. It looks like my luck is running out. Oh well. Reality TV and Dancing With The Stars will have to do. Not!

James

[John Peterson]

I remember a podcast from the Wood Whisperer, who Marc Spangnolo apprenticed with David Marks. If I remember correctly, there were only 2 or 3 seasons shot. I think Marks started his own school or now works for a school, or something along thoughs lines. To be totally honest, I actually prefer the podcast that are out there now.

[Pat Germain]

Scripps recorded and produced about 90 episodes of Wood Works with David Marks. After seven seasons, the show wrapped in 2005. DIY had been broadcasting repeats until October. Many of the tutorials from Wood Works are still available on the DIY web page.

David Marks now teaches classes at his studio in Northern California. He also tours sometimes and teaches classes at Woodcraft stores. (I was in one of his classes last February.) David also has a few instructional videos available.

[Bob Genovesi]

I used to like watching The New Yankee Workshop and they keep moving this one around too. One minute it's on PPS then DIY....

[James White]

I remember a podcast from the Wood Whisperer, who Marc Spangnolo apprenticed with David Marks. If I remember correctly, there were only 2 or 3 seasons shot. I think Marks started his own school or now works for a school, or something along thoughs lines. To be totally honest, I actually prefer the podcast that are out there now.

Yes. Two thumbs up for Mark TWW. Excellent content. I am always checking for new episodes to be posted. The latest project was totally awesome. TWW has really blossomed into something special for the wood working community. I wish Mark and Nicole lots of continued success. Especially now that the TV content for do it yourselfers has been dumbed down so much.

James

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I used to like watching The New Yankee Workshop and they keep moving this one around too. One minute it's on PPS then DIY....


Bob...NYW is still there on PBS but it depends on the scheduling offered by your local channels. I get to see the same show broadcast 3 times a week on 3 different channels.

[Jerome Hanby]

My PBS affiliate keeps bouncing their schedule around and just don't offer some of the PBS programming (Router workshop, WoodWright's Wood Shop,...). It looks like the PBS national feed has all of those programs...but DirecTv wont let me have the channel unless I get written permission from my local affiliate. They are always nice when I call, take the time to discuss the problem, get my contact information so they can call me to make arrangements, then never ever call back or acknowledge that I've ever called when I call back a few weeks later :D

[Pat Germain]

PBS typically shows the new NYW episodes. DIY shows NYW repeats from past years. But I still record all of them on my DVR. :)

My local PBS affilliate just started showing the NYW kitchen cabinet series; for the first time. This affilliate has never shown any of the other woodworking shows. They are all complete mysteries to me.

I would sure like to see the "apprentice" Marc Spagnuolo take the "master" David Marks under his wing and show him how to do podcasts. Seeing both Wood Whisperer and David Marks podcasts would be awesome!

I can't say enough good things about "The Spags". I've learned a great deal from him. He even takes the time to reply to my personal emails. Man, my kids don't even do that. Since Wood Works is no longer showing, it makes The Wood Whisperer podcasts even more essential.

[Peter Quinn]

So the material is in the can. A little editing and they have a salable DVD box set most wood workers would love to have. What are they waiting for?

I used to have EVERY episode on my DVR, kept meaning to tape or burn them, then the DVR crashed, fatal error, programs could not be retrieved!:eek: Now they drop the program, replaced it in my area with the "Suzy makes furniture from MDF, scraps of metal and house hold junk" show or some such thing. Great.

Has it really never occurred to them (DIY Network or whomever owns the show) they have a salable product? Its David Marks Man! Good god man, they already did all the work! Why not sell it? Am I ranting again?

[Pat Germain]

Many a woodworker has asked the same question, Peter. And for good reason. I asked David Marks about this. He said he had talked to Scripps about selling Wood Works DVDs, but they are simply not interested. Apparently, they don't think the limited sales would justify the effort.

Wood Works episodes were briefly available for download on Amazon, albeit season 7 only. I downloaded one episode. I think it was under $2.00. Then those were gone.

Although David maintains the rights to his designs, he has no control or rights over the Wood Works shows. The shows are soley owned by Scripps. David received no royalties when they were broadcast.

I would encourage anyone who has the opportunity to take a David Marks class to do so. My fellow Creekers here encouraged me when I had the chance. Boy, am I glad I did! Pardon me for gloating, but Working with David Marks can be a life-changing experience for a woodworker; or even a non-woodworker. He's a very funny and down to earth guy as well as an amazing artist.

[Dewey Torres]

So the material is in the can. A little editing and they have a salable DVD box set most wood workers would love to have. What are they waiting for?

I used to have EVERY episode on my DVR, kept meaning to tape or burn them, then the DVR crashed, fatal error, programs could not be retrieved!:eek: Now they drop the program, replaced it in my area with the "Suzy makes furniture from MDF, scraps of metal and house hold junk" show or some such thing. Great.

Has it really never occurred to them (DIY Network or whomever owns the show) they have a salable product? Its David Marks Man! Good god man, they already did all the work! Why not sell it? Am I ranting again?

I think your thoughts may as well be falling on deaf ears. When Pat and I talked to David he told us the network was not the best to work with (but he was very PC about it when he said that). He put lots of work into that show and never got a dime after the shooting was completed. DIY is not about woodworking so they have little interest in publishing a DVD. If they did... David wouldn't get a dime of it. Just to show how lucky we were to see the show on DIY, David recalls his first season when the producers told him:

"We are impressed with your work. Your show is the only one where we don't throw the end product into the dumpster after filming".

What does that tell you?

If you want to support David Marks and like his work, take a class or buy the curvilinear video.

That being said, many including myself would probably buy the DVD set from DIY if they offered it. Those were great shows and would be nice to have for reference... maybe someday!

[Paul Steiner]

This is strange because DIY still plays NYW reruns. This is probably because it is cheaper to buy a rerun than film a new show. Also I think NYW has a built in audience. Many non-woodworkers watch and enjoy Norm, I have been told his voice is relaxing.
I really liked Woodworks too, the more the better I say.

[Jeremy Leasure]

Thats unfortunate. I didn't get into woodworking until recently, and so I never even saw one episode of the show. Granted, I weaned myself off television a couple years ago anyway. Still wish I had some way to watch them now, though.

[Curt Harms]

This is strange because DIY still plays NYW reruns. This is probably because it is cheaper to buy a rerun than film a new show. Also I think NYW has a built in audience. Many non-woodworkers watch and enjoy Norm, I have been told his voice is relaxing.
I really liked Woodworks too, the more the better I say.

Perhaps it's because with Norm, Joe Schmo woodhacker watches NYW and says "I could do that". Joe Schmo woodhacker watches Woodworks and says "I'd love to be able to produce something like that but not a chance in Hades" I don't know if that's the case but it seems plausible.

Curt

[Jerome Hanby]

I've thought the same thing. Other than that Timesaver sander Norm has, I could imagine being able to afford the tools he uses. Marks is already doing something I'll never be able to repeat than pulls something like the Multirouter out and I might as well be watching the NASA channel. Still enjoy the program, much more than somethng mindless like Cool Tools. Although, I kind of like that Tools and Techniques show that comes on in the wee hours of the morning. Thank goodnes for Tivo!

[Pat Germain]

I've actually considered DIY might have pulled the plug on Wood Works in preparation for releasing a DVD set. But I know I'm just setting myself up for disappointment.

I think the folks at Scripps just don't know what they have there. They likely aren't aware of any difference between Wood Works and "Kitchen Renovations".

It is a frustrating situation. Consider every episode of "Petticoat Junction" is available on DVD, but Wood Works is not. :rolleyes:

[Robert Strebler]

I can credit WoodWorks with getting me involved in woodworking. His projects opened my eyes to the possibilities of fine furniture making and I've learned more from his shows than any other. I like modern fine furniture and WoodWorks is the only show I've ever seen that focused on it. Norm's stuff is great, but he seems to copy a lot of antiques and build stuff that is not my style. It's too bad that WoodWorks is not still on the air and churning out new episodes.

I'd buy a DVD set in a heartbeat. One of my next projects will be based on his Contemporary Writing Desk.

[Craig Summers]

Perhaps it's because with Norm, Joe Schmo woodhacker watches NYW and says "I could do that". Joe Schmo woodhacker watches Woodworks and says "I'd love to be able to produce something like that but not a chance in Hades" I don't know if that's the case but it seems plausible.

Curt

I watched the Woodworks show, Marks does great quality work. He shows techniques that are important to learn and master.

My turn off is i don't like the modern style and design. I would never want to build in that style, nor do I want to be 'contaminated' by that style. And more importantly SHMBO does not like that style.

Norm mostly builds in a simple and traditional style. Its more accepted, and thats how i would build.

[Pat Germain]

That's great that you like traditional furniture, Craig. But I don't think it's fair to dis' modern designs or the designs of David Marks. It's quite alright to not prefer Davids' designs. By no means are his designs any less legitimate because they are not always traditional.

I personally don't like most contemporary furniture. But I have a great respect and appreciation for the craftsmen who build it. And I would never disparage it simply because I don't like it.

[Mark Godlesky]

I am also not big on the modern furniture, but I still like to watch. A lot of his techniques should be applicable to any style of furniture, and hes uses some beautifulwood. He does seem to like loose tenon joinery as much as Norm likes his biscuit cutter and brad nailer.

I can't say I've ever heard of anyone else with the multirouter setup. Anybody?

I like both Wood Works and NYW and have a DVR full of both. If I like a project or see a technique I want to remember a burn a copy of the show to DVD.

[Dewey Torres]

Pat has a good point.

I am sure there were woodworkers all along the way that tended to cling to what was considered traditional for their time.


In a small tribute to them I will offer the following...
I am sure all of the below had their fair share of critics.

Critics comments in (parenthesis):



2008 contemporary artists (read above)

The Psychedelic period (1960/70's) (acid does wonders)

The "mom in pearls period" (1940's) (WAR MACHINE WOODWORKING)

Green and Green (just 2 chumps if ya ask me!)

Stickley and Ellis (the original pair chumps!)

The "Period" period (refined chumps who drink tea vs. whiskey!)

The Federalists (CHAAAARRGE!, Fire the cannons ewe... that inlay is purdy:D)

The Shakers (A whole village of chumps who do crappy woodwork and are destined to die because they believe in abstinence.) <- No really

The American Indians (what do they know about wood? <-- just before pulling an arrow from his neck)

Jesus ... no religious stuff here or any known critics of his work , but they say he was a carpenter:cool:

and lastly

The Caveman Great job on the wooden axle...how else would the wheel work?... (wheel suck!) <- like I said always a critic:D

Really all in humor folks... :D:D:D:D

[David Peters]

My turn off is i don't like the modern style and design. I would never want to build in that style, nor do I want to be 'contaminated' by that style. And more importantly SHMBO does not like that style.

David Marks Factoid: I had the pleasure of meeting David a few months ago at a lecture he gave at a local Woodcraft store. One of the interesting things he admitted was that the style of the furniture he created for the show, especially in the early episodes, didn't appeal to him. The producers dictated the arts & crafts style that dominate the first episodes, although David allowed that later in the show's life, he was given more flexibility.

For what it's worth, I find Nahm's stuff to be generally appealing, but rarely does he build something I would consider beautiful. David's stuff, on the other hand, is more polarizing -- about half of his pieces miss the mark for me completely, but the other half..... just stunning.

[Denny Rice]

The DIY channel is becoming a joke. It use to be a channel you could turn to for serious infomation, now its a "promotional tool" for cheap Chinese tool manufactuers to help boost sales of their cheap tool line.

[Scott Rollins]

Like many others I do not always like every particaular piece that was made on woodworks, but during each episode I learned a new technique that I used later. I valued the show more for the educational experience than the works themselves sometimes. I say sometimes because most of the time I was awed by the works produced. Not always my style, but awed none the less. Nahm on the other hand has balanced my Marksism with ply, stain, brads, and biscuits so I can occasionally turn a profit. My 0.02 worth less every day.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I suspect that it is going through a phased withdrawal right now. They took Tools and Techniques off for a year, then put it back on. I bet the same thing happens with Wood Works eventually, if you are patient.

Doc

[Wilbur Pan]

I think the folks at Scripps just don't know what they have there. They likely aren't aware of any difference between Wood Works and "Kitchen Renovations".

Yes and no. They may not know the difference between David Marks' work and a kitchen cabinet rehab, but they do know what they have from a money standpoint.

Considering that Scripps Networks Interactive consists of all of the following brands:


HGTV
FrontDoor.com
HGTVPro.com
Ecologue.com
UpMyStreet.com
Food Network
RecipeZaar.com
DIY Network
Fine Living Network
Great American Country
Shopzilla
uSwitch
BizRate
buy.co.uk

the sales of Woodworks DVDs would really be just a drop in the bucket for them. According to their website, their 2008 third quarter revenue alone was $375 million, even with the crappy economy. Their combined annual revenue over the past four quarters was just about $2 billion.

And just to give you an idea of the type of media market that Scripps Networks Interactive is used to dealing with, their parent company was the E.W. Scripps Company, before Scripps Networks Interactive was spun off. E.W. Scripps owns United Media, which owns the rights to Peanuts (!) and Dilbert (!!).

It's hard to tell how many woodworkers are out there, but the subscription base for Fine Woodworking is just under 300,000. Assuming that the Woodworks DVDs sold for $50 for one season, based on the prices of a season long DVD box set for a popular sitcom like The Office, if everyone who subscribed to Fine Woodworking bought a Woodworks DVD set, that would make up just 0.75% of Scripps' annual revenue.

And of course that isn't going to happen. What would happen, knowing how we woodworkers are, is that SMC would be filled with posts saying something like, "Can you believe what they are charging for that David Marks DVD? Why should I buy that when I can watch the Wood Whisperer for free??!?!?" ;)

[Kevin Jaynes]

One thing I found out about cable channels pulling/replacing/scheduling shows . . . it doesn't have to make sense, or cents, for the decision to be made.

When Dogfights was at its zenith of popularity it was pulled. No warning. No explanation. No nuttin. My wife was livid. I was not exactly happy either. My wife and two sons and I spent that time together each week - it was real quality time that you don't often get with mid teeners like they were at that time.

Well I got inline to see what gives. I ended up registering onto the THC forums. Man, it would take 10 paragraphs to just sum up what I got involved in. I'll try it in just the next one . . . . .

I started doing a lot of online detective work, something I would not have got involved in normally. I don't take up a cause easily. No time. Usually fruitless anyway. A woman who shall remain nameless had just been given the reigns of THC programming. I had joined a growing group of peeps who were relentlessly asking THC for an explanation of why they pulled the plug when I ran across an obscure article buried on page 9742 (exgaerration - you get the point) of the online NYT.

Couldn't do it in one paragrapgh sorry felles . . . .anyway I researched this lady. Google is so cool. Her pedigree read like a who's who in the Jane Fonda Bunco Society. Bigtime anti-gun donor and all. It didn't take long for me to connect the dots. Connect them I did. I teamed up with another History Channel Forum member who had caught my eye as educated, rational, and not prone to letting her emotion get the best of her in her posts.

Darn, a 3rd paragraph. Oh well I'm in this deep might as well finish the boring story. So I PM'ed her and said let's talk. She turns out to be a real liberal Ph.D at not Harvard but one of those siiliar hotbeds of ..... never mind don't want to politicise this post. So ask why the heck she is so fervent about Dogfights not being canned. "My grandpa is a WWII Ace and he is heart-broken. We watch the show together and I have come to really like the show myself." :eek:

Are you seeing the strange bed-fellow story unfold here? So here I am plotting our assualt on THC chanel with a woman who would normally be my antagonist, so that we might do our part to get a war show back on THC instead of the rediculous Ice Road Trcukers which took its place. If you like IRT no offense intended, it's just that THC ought not be showing reality shows especially in the place of such an awesome and well-done show about aviation history.

End of story coming soon I promise (but I have omitted MUCH), I relayed my findings to this highly educated woman and ask her to parse them. She said she would and get back to me. She did. That night, and had added to them. We made a series of posts on THC forum about why we believed the show had been cancelled and we named names and laid it all out there. We even gave an unlisted phone number for Dogfighters to call (the good Doctor came up with that and would not tell me how :rolleyes: ) and lodge their complaints and share there thoughts.

The responses that thread got, and the full scale cyber-rioting it created was unparalleled in the annals of online protesting I assume. Never been involoved in such a thing before but you could hit refresh every ten seconds and there were new posts. the server jammed a few times even.

So how did it end up? THC deleted the whole thread on the 3rd day. Then everytime someone would try to bring it back zappo! The mod had their fingers on the trigger constantly. They had assigned someone to watch the two forums 24/7 because you couldn't make a post that communicated with another Dogfighter about a plan of action (some people were writing senators, taking out ads in local papers and getting up petitions etc.!) if your life depended on it.

I talked to my Ph.D lady friend once more (she teaches ....... no kidding ....... world history! :D ) and we both agreed we had to have lives again. I wasn't really spending near as much time on it as she. She said it was negatively-affecting her career and had to let it go. We both agreed we were through with THC.

I have ended up there a couple of times since then but it is not on my "speed button" on the remote, sp to speak.

The worst part about all this? I made a cheeky reference to Jane Fonda earlier (who was in no way involved in this mess as far as I know anyway) because, you know how when you are researching something online, you end up in the vortex of sequences and find yourself anywhere and everywhere, I discovered much to my dismay, I am possibly related to Jane Fonda. Her dad Henry, you know the guy, well his mom was a Jaynes. :eek:

Sorry for the rant. I'll go take my medicine now . . . . . . .

[Pat Germain]

That was pretty interesting, Kevin. While I never got into Dogfights, I often question the content on History Channel. For example, why are they showing tabloid junk about UFO's and Nostrodamus? That has nothing to do with History.

This is yet another example of inept leadership. Hopefully, things will turn around on the cable networks when people tune out in droves.

I'm wondering if the Dogfights series is available on DVD. Unlike DIY, History Channel makes available their programming on DVD.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Unlike the New Yankee Workshop which is still in production on PBS, the last Woodworks episode was probably over 4 years ago. Since DIY showed Woodworks episodes daily, then two back-to-back episodes every Saturday evening, the existing material must be getting played out.

The question should be as what has replaced this show? I'm guessing that the NYW reruns previously aired on PBS are the answer for now. They have been a relatively new addition to DIY within the past year or so.

However, I would also like to say that I think DIY has become much less appealing to me than when I first started getting it about 2 years ago as part of my digital package.

-Jeff :)

[John Baranowski]

If I like a project or see a technique I want to remember a burn a copy of the show to DVD.
Mark,
What kind of DVR do you have? I have been trying to figure out how to get my recordings over to my computer HD with no luck. Are you burning your DVDs from a computer or an AV style DVD burner?

[Chris Padilla]

I have 90% of Woodworks recorded on DVD. Funny thing, there were a few episodes here and there that DIY rarely (if ever) repeated and I recorded Woodworks for 3 years. I had the DVR set to record everything shown but there were a handful of episodes that I couldn't get.

We speak with the (not so lately) almighty dollar. DIY still shows some interesting things but they aren't going to please all the people all the time. We on this forum are but a small small (fanatical) group so keep that in mind.

[Chris Padilla]

Mark,
What kind of DVR do you have? I have been trying to figure out how to get my recordings over to my computer HD with no luck. Are you burning your DVDs from a computer or an AV style DVD burner?

Get yourself a DVD recorder. It really is that simple.