Hand tool wanna be?

[Dean Karavite]

Hi All,

I am a hobbiest who has made mainly large cabinet type projects in my house, but I have a serious hand tool bug. I recently bought a Pfeil chisel set and I love them. They are amazing. I also went cheapo on some planes (Groz), but while the #4 knock off seems hopeless I was able to tune up and sharpen their block plane to be a valuable and dependable tool.

Here is my dilemma. I want to learn and develop more in making fine furniture. I do not have a jointer and I do not have a planer. I am not too mechanical and old tools aren't the best option (or maybe they are?). To get a planer and jointer that really hold up, it seems I have to plop down some serious change. Seems you could take that money and get a set of really fine planes. Also, though I have about 600 square feet of shop, those things take up room. If it were somehow offered to me, if I were given a choice of taking some nice planes and a traditional bench vs a really nice 8" jointer and a nice planer, I would go for the planes and bench without the slightest hesitation. It just appeals to me more. However, I have been known to be wrong. I just can't pull the trigger on those power tools. So here is my question.

Can I go the hand plane route and take care of all the jointing and planing I might need (home shop all for enjoyment)? Or maybe a used 6" jointer and use hand planes for planing? Looking forward to your opinions and advice!

[Ken Werner]

Dean, you are posting here in the Neanderthal cave....

I would recommend a [used] 6" jointer, and a lunchbox planer. You might get both for under $600. That will give you a lot of versatility. Of course, you could sink that money into some very fine handplanes, but with beginning skills, I think you'll get farther in your development with those 2 basic powertools, in the capabilities it will afford you for machining your stock, and obtaining good starting materials.

I'm sure there will be some excellent diverging opinions on this.

[frank shic]

dean, the answer is yes you can do all your stock preparation by hand. rob cosman has a great dvd called "rough to ready." for me, it was way to slow and inefficient to prepare my wood this way so i save my hand toolery mostly for the more intricate jointing process like dovetailing drawers and carcases and raised panel door construction.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Can I go the hand plane route and take care of all the jointing and planing I might need (home shop all for enjoyment)?

Why not? It was done for hundreds of years before power jointers and planers were invented. Some of us here do it all that way. I'm not going to lie to you and tell you it's all cookies and ice cream. You really have to want to do it that way because you want to and not for any other reason. Sure it can be much less expensive and take up much less space, but it can also be a lot of work. There are times when I have to do a lot of planing that it would be a lot easier to pass it through a power planer but I wouldn't get the same satisfaction from it. Most folks balance hand and power work these days to maximize time spent on enjoyable activities. Ask yourself this. Will you enjoy hand planing a couple hundred board feet of lumber to build two large cases? Would you enjoy doing it for every piece you build? If so, go for it. If it sounds like too much to handle more than once or twice, go for some power.

Bob

[Bill Houghton]

If you're comfortable, as you start out, using nominal 1" lumber (5/8-3/4" in reality, depending on the species) for your work, you can do a lot with hand planes. The time consuming part, in my opinion, is surfaces; edges, having less material, aren't as hard.

As you get more advanced, you'll want the thickness of the work to vary to fit the piece, and here's where hand planes can be really time-consuming. Reducing the width of a board by 1/4" to fit into your design is, relatively, a piece of cake. Reducing the thickness of a 6" wide board to make 1/2" drawer sides is a lot more work.

[Luke Townsley]

I do all hand tools and yes, it is a lot of work. It is also slower. It also requires working on a regular basis to stay in shape.

However, it doesn't require fancy dust protection or ear/eye protection and lets me work in my attached garage without getting dust in the whole house.

Also, brute hand tool work is a great way to work out your frustrations with your day.

I think if I were going to get a power tool, my first choice would be a planer. Of course that partly depends on how you get your stock.

[Joe Cunningham]

I've been doing that. No jointer, no planer, just hand planes. I sometimes use a circular saw for ripping, but most sawing is done by hand as well.

Sometimes I get 4S4 lumber so I don't need to do much with the dimensioning, but I have also gotten regular 4/4 lumber. It's not hard, just a bit time consuming. But for me, this is a hobby and I get a lot of satisfaction out going from rough sawn lumber to finished piece, all with hand work.

That being said, I am considering getting a lunch-box planer, because I find making all of my stock the same thickness to be the most time consuming part of the process. I figure I can hand plane (joint) a face flat, then run it through a planer.

I have 2 each of Stanley #4, #5 and #7's. Less than a new LN #4 spent. In fact I think I spent more in my sharpening stones than I did for the hand planes--sharp plane blades make all the difference. I did buy a LN scrub plane because the price between new and vintage was not that great.

I'm no expert but have been able to produce some pieces I am proud to give as gifts to family members. Skills improve with use IMO, and if you use a table saw, band saw, jointer and planer, but want to do quality hand work ... when are you practicing the skill? On the other hand, if you go from rough lumber to finished product using nothing but hand saws, hand planes, chisels and scrapers, your hand skills will improve with each project. I've found my sawing skills have gotten so much better because I made a commitment to use hand tools whenever possible. Sometimes when I am 3/4 of the way through re-sawing a long board I wonder what the heck I was thinking, but when my next hand-cut dovetails look so much better than the previous ones, I know every saw stroke is improving that skill.

I started with a workmate, a 1/4" Buck Bros chisel, block plane and backsaw and some poplar I got at the local HD. Used scary sharp to get the chisel and plane blade sharp, read a few online dovetail tutorials, and made my first project--a box with handcut DTs, a top I chamfered with the block plane, and a 1/4" plywood bottom. Not very pretty, but it still holds my chisels.

[Peter Quadarella]

To me, jointing by hand makes sense, but not thickness planing unless you just love it and dislike machines. The thickness planer does a great job of making a mostly tedious job quick and easy, takes up little space and costs little (if you buy a small lunchbox). The powered jointer is a larger purchase that takes up more space, and its function can be replaced by hand tools relatively easily.

I did all my jointing by hand for a while but I did eventually purchase a power jointer, and it is a great machine. I still pull out my jointer plane and other bench places though.

[Johnny Kleso]

With a No5 and or a No6 Stanley bought from eBay in good condition for about $35 and $45 you could use them to prep your wood for the Lunch Box Planner

I have dozens of planes but would not consider not having a Power Planner

But you could just do with a 4,5,6 and 7 and just buy S2 (surfaced 2 Sides) wood .. In face took me some hunting to find rough sawn wood, S2 is far more common here in GA. and its no cheaper than S2 unless your buying from a saw mill..

But its nice to have a planner to make 1/2" stock for drawers and boxes, I bought my Ridgid used from a online friend.. Their is also store retuns and Recons at places on line..

[Derek Stevens]

I have a jointer and a larger planer, as well as a large assortment of hand planes. I could live without the jointer, but the planer is REAL handy for historic window construction, drawer sides sizing and millwork unification of size before profiling.

[Bob Easton]

The one skill you will need to develop is sharpening. You'll be sharpening the planes a lot. Once comfortable with that, the care and upkeep of planes is not at all difficult and your apprehension about being "not very mechanical" will disappear. That apprehension might even subside to the point of your becoming interested in refurbishing old planes.

All of the wood prep I do for boat building is by hand. Yes, thickness reduction is the most laborious part, but I'm a lot quicker at it now than when I started. For example, I have learned to read the wood and decide whether to plow with a coarse #40 or with a #8 set for a heavy cut.

The absolute best thing about this approach is not needing a dust removal system. I'm amazed at the people who begin setting up a woodworking shop by bringing in a bizillion watts of extra electrical service, and casting new concrete floors that include trenching for the dust removal lines. None of that in my shop. The electrical is one extension cord, and the dust removal is a broom. The shop is joyously absent of whining noise.

Next best is that the potential for emergency room visits is much lower when you have no devilish spinning whirling knives to contend with.

If you don't already have it, you'll be rebuilding upper body strength, and maybe staying in shape (depending on how far the shop is from the refrigerator).

Your shop space is preciously small. Use the space for a good bench. You'll use that bench lot more than the jointer and planer.

A last bit of advice: buy better planes, either new high quality planes, or good used planes that you refurb. I don't think you'll find many here that think the Groz stuff is worth the time it takes to tune up. Working with really good, and very sharp, planes is a real joy.

Should you become interested in refurbishing old planes, start off by buying only from reputable dealers. Avoid "fleabay." There are about a dozen reputable dealers online. The service they provide is the experience of recognizing, and honestly describing, the condition of the tools passing through their hands. You pay a few extra bucks for this judgement, but it is very worthwhile. Creekers can help you with names.

[Casey Gooding]

I generally agree with what everyone has said.
However, I feel I need to bring up the price issue. If you choose to go with older hand tools and fix them up, you can save yourself a bit. You did say you weren't too mechanical, so you may not want to go that route. Though, it's not terribly difficult if you do go that way.
If you decide to go with new premium tools, you may not end up saving much money at all. Good tools (whether corded or "cordless") are expensive. By the time you outfit yourself with a good set of planes, chisels and saws, you've spend a good chunk of change. That being said, they are totally worth it. I love everyone of my premium hand tools as well as my vintage tools I've fixed up.
You could always pick my path and have a combination of power tools, vintage hand tools and new premium hand tools.

[David Keller NC]

Dean - A slightly different opinion. If you're new to hand tools, you may get very frustrated trying to use antiques. Some are ready to go when you get them, but many are not, and you'd be amazed at how small an amount of metal needs to be removed from various places that makes the difference between totally unusable and a pleasure to use. You can certainly learn to do that yourself, of course (one good reference is Dunbar's book on the subject

http://www.amazon.com/Restoring-Tuning-Using-Classic-Woodworking/dp/080696670X )

If you want to learn the woodworking aspect first, though, I would strongly consider buying a set of good, but basic, planes from Lee-Valley or Lie-Nielsen and learn to sharpen the blade and use them - just that part is a significant learning curve.

If you want to surface rough stock and make furniture, here's a list of tools that you absolutely require, you cannot get by without any one of them:

A jointer plane (can be a #8, a #7, or even a #6 for smaller projects)

A smoother plane (can be a #5, a #4-1/2, a #4, or a #3)

(This is optional - it reduces the amount of work you have to do with the jointer): A fore, or roughing plane - this can be a #6 or a #5 with a highly curved blade and a wide-open mouth. You can set up any #6 or #5 to do this with a set of sharpening stones - they don't come that way from the factory.

A good, accurate, and small square that you will use to check where you need to plane and where you don't. I like the Woodjoy tools small square, but any good 3" or 4" small square will do - but don't get an adjustable. Many of these are not square enough to use for this purpose.

A marking gauge - you must have this to accurately thickness stock by hand. The traditional, british design works well, but the Tite-marks are far easier to use, in my opinion. You can also get mortising blades for the tite-mark that will let you convert the marking gauge for mortising when you get to hand-cut mortise and tenon joinery.

And finally - a good, flat, and sturdy bench. This is an absolute - you can't plane a board flat on a wavy concrete basement floor. However, you can build your own bench with just a few power tools - Chris Schwarz' book "Workbenches: From Theory and Design to Construction and Use" will take you through building a bench that's highly functional for just a very little money from consturction lumber from one of the big box stores.

You will also require good saws, chisels, and other hand tools for making furniture, of course, but the above list is what's required to square up and smooth wood with hand tools.

[Jim Koepke]

Being mostly a hand tool guy, my opinion is somewhat biased.

My line to people who ask is, "using hand tools, the mistakes are made slower."

I used to work with a guy who would always laugh at me for using hand planes. Then, he couldn't do much with his power planer because the blades got dull and nicked. He was always wanting me to sharpen his knives. I offered to teach him, but he just wanted someone else to do it for him. No idea how much it takes to set the blades after they have been sharpened.

I do have a few power tools, but the only ones that are getting much use are the lathe and the cordless drill. Lately, my eggbeater is getting more use than the battery model.

Then, when safety and health come into the picture, my feeling is hand work is likely better for the exercise and is less dangerous.

Besides, I can plane wood by hand any time of the day. Turning on a power tool may not be appreciated by the neighbors early in the morning or late at night.

Most of my hand planes were bought through uPay. Not many of them were real dogs. If you can get to estate sales early, you might find better buys there. Just be aware, other tool buyers also get their early. So, do not leave something laying on the table, someone else will pick it up and buy it.

The search is almost a career in itself.

jim
jtk

[Gary Herrmann]

I use my hand planes for joinery tasks - grooves for box bottoms, cleaning up proud dovetails etc. The router plane came in real handy when my wife wanted boxes for her sharpening stones. She's more of a neander than me, so no power tools were allowed.

I also use them for final surfacing - I really like my LV BU smoother.

Hand saws for smaller projects and joinery. Chisels come in handy all the time. But for large projects, I still use my jointer, planer etc. I've got a couple small projects coming up that my wife wants to help with and they'll be all hand tools. But when someone in the family wants a loft bed or something else big, hand tools are for joinery and surface prep.

As I have more time, I'll go more hand tools, or at least, thats my plan. It is nice. Radio playing - and you can actually hear it, no clouds of dust in the air, your dogs sleeping on the floor rather than running back up the stairs when the tablesaw kicks on...

I do keep thinking about a pole lathe too. Or maybe something I could rig up with a bicycle gears. Hmm...

[Dean Karavite]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the advice. Oh, when I said I wasn't mechanical I meant it in regard to buying old power tools as a cheaper alternative to new jointers/planers (motors, pulleys...). I have some stones and am doing pretty well with them on chisels and my two cheap hand planes. I actually enjoy sharpening.

From what I gather here (and this makes sense of course) a jointer is optional but unless I have tons of time and calories to burn planing everything by hand is not realistic, especially since I do not yet have a really good bench. No rush on anything. I'd really like to build my own bench.

Today I went to a Woodcraft and held in my hand all the Lie Nielsen planes. Wow, that's all I can say. I think I will get their block plane and start with that. I'm sure I will use it on all kinds of things and I can continue practicing my sharpening on my cheapo planes. In a little while add a few planes here and there and see how it goes. However, I can't see spending all that money on super high end new hand planes so if someone could pass along names of reputable online sources for old Stanley planes I'd appreciate it - Ed mentioned them.

[David Keller NC]

"Today I went to a Woodcraft and held in my hand all the Lie Nielsen planes. Wow, that's all I can say. I think I will get their block plane and start with that. I'm sure I will use it on all kinds of things and I can continue practicing my sharpening on my cheapo planes. In a little while add a few planes here and there and see how it goes. However, I can't see spending all that money on super high end new hand planes so if someone could pass along names of reputable online sources for old Stanley planes I'd appreciate it - Ed mentioned them."

Lie-Nielsen makes several block planes. For a first block plane, I'm going to recommend you get the adjustable-mouth low-angle block plane. That plane will allow you to trim end-grain (because of the low-angle), but it can also be used for any other task a block plane will do, albiet not as efficiently on face-grain as a standard angle block plane will. However, you can get 2 blades with the plane - one you keep at the factory grind angle, and one you grind to a much higher angle (perhaps 40 degrees or so). The high-angle grind will give you equivalent performance to the standard angle block plane; the downside is that you'll have to stop and change the blades out, but it'll save you a Franklin or so.

From the standpoint of Stanleys, I'd recommend Lee Richmond @ www.thebestthings.com (http://www.thebestthings.com). He knows his stuff, and is pleasant to talk to. If you tell him you want user planes, he'll steer you toward those without trying to sell you a collector's piece, and he will tell you exactly what the condition of the plane is before you buy it. He'll be a bit higher than buying the equivalent on e-bay, but you'll know what you're getting before it arrives. Disclaimer - I've bought a lot of things from Lee, and he's sold a few things for me on consignment, but I've no business relationship with him other than being a good customer, and he doesn't give me any considerations for recommending him.

You should still seriously consider buying Michael Dunbar's book on restoring antique tools - there's a heck of a lot of good advice in it on tuning handplanes for maximum performance. Also, it'll probably be the best woodworking investment you've ever made to buy Chris Schwarz' book on workbenches - it's that good.

[Dean Karavite]

Thanks David. I have the book by Chris Schwarz' and have gone over it and over it and your right, it is a great book. I think I need to get my "chops" up a little with a few more projects before I build a bench, but I think about it all the time. Thanks also for the block plane advice and links!