raised panel opinion question

[David Rose]

Do any of you ever let a raised panel sit proud of the rails and stiles? I'm building a panelled blanket chest of cherry with a bit fancier raised panels on the front and ends. I just picked up a new panel raising bit that is appropriate for that size panel. But if I keep the vertical part just above the field to a small, neat looking size, and the rails and stiles matching that same part, the panel will protrude above the rails and stiles by about 5/32". It is not too noticable on samples, but I just can't see that looking good. Maybe it's just me. I've read of folks doing that, but never really could see how it would look the best.

It is kind of tough getting enough of the specs to get them (bits) to match level without buying a complete set, which I haven't done.

David

[Lee Schierer]

Unless you use thicker material for the stiles, or undercut the back of the panel, it is quite normal for raised panells to "stick out" in relation to the rails and stiles, hence the name raised panel. If you use full 1" material for the rails and stiles and 3/4" or thinner material for the panel the panel field will be flush with the front of the rails provided you locate the panel groove properly. Having the panels stick out really isn't noticeable in most applications.

[Aaron Montgomery]

From what I recall at the WW shows, I believe the CMT set will create a panel that is flush with the front and back of the rails and stiles, assuming the same thickness wood. I've got the set, but have not actually used the raised panel cutter yet. The Freud set (Ok, a stile/rail set + vertical raised panel cutter) does result in a panel that is raised from the stile/rail. In truth it's probably not that noticeable and whose to say flush or raised is better? Let your personal preference be your guide.

[Todd Burch]

David, I've done them both ways.

When I raise 3/4" panels on the tablesaw, or on the routertable with my non-backcutter panel raising bits, I don't backcut them, so they stick out in front. I think they look fine. To get around this, you could use a 5/8", 9/16" or 1/2" panel, depending on how much it sticks out and how flush you want it.

The doors I make now, I will usually use the backcutter so that they will stay flush with the front, THEN, that allows me to run the whole sha-bang through the wide belt sander, sanding both the panel and frame at once. (It's a "time" thing). Most commercially bought doors are done the same way.

Todd

[Ken Fitzgerald]

David, when I made an oak cabinet for my wife, she and I didn't like the panel protruding beyond the rails and stiles. The raised panel bit I used was a cheap PC that only cut/sloped the front edge of the panel. I used my router and dado'ed the back edge of the panels. This allowed me to set the depth of the dado to compensate for the protrusion distance and eliminate it.
Good Luck!

[Greg Heppeard]

David,

I usually use about a 9/16 panel and 3/4 rails and stiles. It keeps things pretty flush then. If you raise or lower the rail and stile bit, you might have to go thicker or thinner on the panel. To keep the panel flush, lay the rail face down and measure to the back side of the groove for the panel...that will give you the thickness you need.

[Lars Thomas]

Mine are generally proud of the rails. Like Todd, if I had a wide belt sander, I would certainly make them flush.

[Chris Padilla]

David,

Check out this jewelry box I made a while ago...its 'panel' is raised. It kind of invites you to feel the raised portion. Perhaps it gives you some idea?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=7940

[Hal Flynt]

When I set my set up, I run some test pieces on some scrap to get the relief that I want. I have noticed that the shadow line (that first profile where the field transitions to the profile of the rail/style or field to slope of raised panel)created by the rail and style bits needs to match the shadow line on the panel to be flush.

Having said that, many of my panels are slightly proud.

[David Rose]

Good responses everyone. I think I was a little unclear about what I am trying to do. I think if I can get my message across, you may just say I am being picky. Since my drafting program is too old to convert to an uploadable format, I drew this in Word (for Pete's sake!). We'll see how it comes out. "Having" to spend money on woodworking tools and supplies slows my 'puter upgrading. :D

My goal is rail/stile/panel all flush and the vertical piece to which the arrows point, the same size. I can easily make them flush by allowing the thumbnail profile to be set deeper into the wood. In other words, the right arrow vertical piece would be "taller" than the left. This just doesn't look right to me either. I suspect that the real answer is a complete matched set that is suppose to give the flush effect. Or "accidentally" find bits that work together.

Chris, I agree that in some places like your box, that is a great profile.

David

[Ed Moehlenpah]

The CMT Marc Sommerfeld bits produce flush rail/stile/panels. I've tried it, and they work. The other cool thing about this set is that you set the height of the first bit, and then just drop in the other bits (without changing heights). I have one of his little electrical grommets in the bottom of the router collet, so the bit doesn't bottom out, and that's all it takes.

I'm very happy with these bits.

Ed

[Chris Padilla]

Yep, Ed, I almost exclusively use CMT...BTW, Welcome to SMC! :)

[Fred LeBail]

Dave,
When I am making raised panels, whether for doors or sides, my Stiles & Rails are 7/8 " and I plane the panels to 11/16" and this leaves the panels flush.
Fred

[Steve Clardy]

David. I don't like the panel protruding from the rail and stiles. I pefer them flush. I just use a 1/2" rabbit bit on the back of the panel, set 1/8" deep. This lets the panel sit back, making it flush with the rail and stiles on front.

[David Rose]

Hey Steve, you're right. There's only one problem. My pic didn't work or it would be clear. Consider the panel and frame laying flat. The little vertical lip that protrudes from the field of the panel and also the same cut on the rail/stile is considerably different (from each other) with the bits I have if I set the cope/stick cuts deep enough to get them flush. Let me know if this isn't clear, gotta run.

At any rate would you sacrifice that variation (if you understand it) to keep the panel flush?

David


David. I don't like the panel protruding from the rail and stiles. I pefer them flush. I just use a 1/2" rabbit bit on the back of the panel, set 1/8" deep. This lets the panel sit back, making it flush with the rail and stiles on front.

[Steve Clardy]

Well David, I think I follow you, but at this time of day, maybe not. Ha:confused:

Anyhow, here's a pic of how I do it with my doors. It's fit close enough I call it flush here in Missouri.:eek:
A little trial and error with scraps will get you this setup. I do not use a back cutter on my shaper cutter for the panel profile. I have a router table set up with a rabbit bit for cutting the back of panel AFTER running the panel profile.
Hope this helps out. :D:D
Steve
Oh ya. Rail and stiles are 25/32, panels are 3/4. Everything here is laying face down.

[David Rose]

I think you got it. At this point I'm not worried about back cutting or material thickness as those are easy to adjust. I finally got time to take some photos to show better what I'm after. One is almost too out of focus to tell, but it helps get the idea across I think. The panel is cut on cedar scrap and the rail on walnut to help get some contrast. I prefer the small rise shown on the panel arrows. We would also like a similar size rise on the rail but can't get it with these cutters unless I am missing something. The lower you set that cutter the taller the rise (arrow again). I guess I need to order another rail/stile set to match the panel raiser if I can get a match. These were both cut with Whiteside bits, but using the miniature rail/stile set for the thumbnail cut.

I think I stated before, but it is hard to tell which cutters will do what with the limited measurements that the bit manufacturers post. With only one more bit measurement I could tell I think.

The first pic shows the bit set low which brings the fronts into better alignment and worsens the cut difference where the arrows point. The second shows the bit raised with the opposite problems.

David


Well David, I think I follow you, but at this time of day, maybe not. Ha:confused:

Anyhow, here's a pic of how I do it with my doors. It's fit close enough I call it flush here in Missouri.:eek:
A little trial and error with scraps will get you this setup. I do not use a back cutter on my shaper cutter for the panel profile. I have a router table set up with a rabbit bit for cutting the back of panel AFTER running the panel profile.
Hope this helps out. :D:D
Steve
Oh ya. Rail and stiles are 25/32, panels are 3/4. Everything here is laying face down.

[Steve Clardy]

Looks like you have two options if you want the panel flat with the door.
Buy a different panel cutter, or loose the top portion of your present panel profile.:rolleyes:

[David Rose]

My take too, Steve. :( I think I will let the thumbnail set as low as possible and leave the field slightly proud. I can get it down to about a sixteenth or less above the rails and stiles.

Look forward to seeing you!

Thanks

David


Looks like you have two options if you want the panel flat with the door.
Buy a different panel cutter, or loose the top portion of your present panel profile.:rolleyes: