How important is a tablesaw

[doug young]

Ok, Last night i was cutting some pieces to turn some bottle stoppers. I was using my delta unisaw. After 2 scary kickbacks i went on youtube to look for tips on preventing kickback. When i typed in tablesaw accidents i saw a slew of pics of guys missing hands and fingers. The kickback and accompanying bruise really, really scared the heck out of me. So here is my question. I have a powermatic band saw with riser that is awesome. I only have one bay of my garage. I love woodturning but am not really a cabinet/furniture type of woodworker. Should i sell the unisaw and get a few more gouges and a dust collector i am needing or will i find situations down the road where the bandsaw will not meet my needs. Also.... if i ever get in to segmented turning can i do that on the bandsaw. Thanks for the input. doug

[Richard Madison]

Segmented turning is best done on a lathe. Doubt you could do it on a bandsaw. Sorry Doug. Just had to write that.

For segmented work most of my stock preparation and all segment cutting is done on a tablesaw. I surely would not sell a Unisaw if I had one. But segment cutting can be done with a miter saw of course. There are usually two or three different ways to do any task.

I am probably more "scared" of the bandsaw than the tablesaw, and/but use an assortment of push sticks, featherboards, and the like with both saws to help avoid injury. Kickback on the tablesaw is usually the result of some procedural error. Try to determine exactly what happened that caused the kickback, so you can change procedure to prevent it in future.

[Wilbur Pan]

I haven't tried segmented turning, but I do use hand tools a lot. One way of getting uniform segmented pieces is to use a hand plane with a jig to plane a small piece of wood to a given height. Here's a picture -- it's basically two rails that serve as a depth stop for your plane. Once you plane the piece of wood down to the height of the rails, you're done.

[doug young]

richard, What happened was cutting small pieces with a push stick where i was pushing on the near side of the board. I have discovered that i really need to make sure the front of the board can't be lifted up as it moves through the blade. In talking to others, i need to make an assortment of push sticks and jigs. Some that would hold down the entire piece i am cutting and would even get cut a bit by the blade as i push it through. That way i could keep downward pressure on it throughout the cut. I just gained a huge amount of respect for the saw that night. Some of what i am debating is the space that is being taken up by the saw and the table/fence as well as the type of work i will enjoy doing the most. Thanks for the input.

Wilber, thanks for the pics on the jig. That sound like a simple way to make it work.

[Chris Haas]

yeah, i was thinking the same thing, i work in a shop all day building stair parts and whatever else we have a job for, and kickback is not an option, thats why people are missing fingers and hands, if that is a common problem for you, your not being safe period. not trying to chastize you, but you dont want to be the guy that chops his hand off and bleeds out in his garage for his wife to find the next morning. be safe.

[Paul Atkins]

Make a removable wooden top, put some casters on the unisaw and you have a great workbench and catchall - you will kick yourself if you get rid of it when you need to make boxes and displays for all those stoppers. Since I got my PM87 I have used the tablesaw once a month at most. The bandsaw gets used everyday. With the jointer and bandsaw I almost feel as if I could live without it until I need to cut sheet goods. Wouldn't get rid of it though. Only flesh eating accident was the tablesaw but I think of the butcher shop cutting beef leg bones before I turn on the BS.

[Brodie Brickey]

Doug,

Rather than get rid of a good table saw, I would recommend that you check your local community college or WoodCraft. You need a basic woodworking class that teaches you safe ways of accomplishing the cuts you want.

Table saws can be scary, but with certain jigs that are really easy to make, you can make it safe and accurate. My local community college (Cerritos) has a great woodworking program. Where they teach saw safety as part of it.

Since you're working on small parts, a cross cut sled and another similar one for ripping small pieces is probably called for. You can use hold downs that will keep your hands very far away from the blade. Check out 'WoodSmith'. I'm attaching a link that should show you some of the jigs out there, its not meant for purchase, just to show you what to search for elsewhere. http://plansnow.com/tablesawacc.html

With regard to bottle stoppers, the stock can certainly be cut on the bandsaw. Being absolutely precise in size with turning stock isn't really necessary.

[doug young]

Thanks for all the tips. I am going to seek out some training, make some jigs/sleds etc. I also like the idea of making a top for it. Bench space is at a minimum in the shop and that would definitely help. thanks, doug

[Chris Padilla]

Bandsaws are GREAT! They are typically much safer than a table saw. I mean, think about it. A table saw's blade PURPOSELY spins at you. That is why kickback is so dangerous.

Now I don't want to give the impression that a bandsaw is not dangerous but look how its blade moves vs a table saw: kickback is must less of a problem but it can still occur.

That aside, the set up of your Unisaw is key to preventing kickback. You must make sure your fence is dead parallel to the blade (or just a wee bit angled to the right) because if it is a wee bit angled to the left--i.e. into the blade--you will pinch your wood and cause a dangerous kick back situation.

Along with set up are various safety mechanisms like splitters, pawls, board buddies, featherboards, riving knives, and so on.

The key is to understand how and why kickback happens and you can then take approaches to preventing it.

For my taste, I do a lot of large board ripping and cutting on my bandsaw because quite frankly, my TS scares me in those situations even though it is set up correctly. I just find the bandsaw infinitely more comfortable and safer to use. YMMV.

[Grant Wilkinson]

Doug: I use this for small pieces for segmenting. Never any kickbacks and the blade is always covered.

http://www.microjig.com/

[Kim Ford]

Doug;

Having worked with a tablesaw, jointer, bandsaw and shaper professionally and as a hobby for more that 35 years I will tell you this. Each finger is worth many times more than any tool you can buy.



That being said, even after all these years every time I turn on a power tool, yes even the lathe, I pause a moment and really ask myself two things:

Am I comfortable with and feel safe performing the necessary task.
Have I taken every safety precation necessary to make sure this is truly safe.
I wouldn't want a shop without a tablesaw. I feel it is an absolute necessity if you are going to do almost any kind of woodworking. But that does not mean that I am going to make cuts that I am not comfortable with just because I need a certain shape for what I am building. No Way. Not with the tablesaw, the bandsaw or the jointer.

Always understand the tool's and your own limitations.

Tools comand our respect. They are made to efficently cut wood which is much harder than fingers, hands, and flesh.

Make sure you have sharp blades and that your fences, jigs, and setups are in good shape and set properly. Take some classes, and talk to some of the older craftsmen that have been there done that. Just remember, if in doubt, if not familar with or if you are uncomfortable about using any power tool, DON'T DO IT.

Ten digits are very important.

[Jon Behnke]

I'll second the motion on the Grippers, well worth the price for a set. I use mine on almost every cut on the table saw. I too had a nasty kick back a couple years ago, teaches you a very healthy respect for safety.

[Richard Madison]

Doug,
Good analysis of your problem. My most frequently used "push" tool is tall enough that the opening for my fingers is well above the blade at max. height, and about 6 or 7" long, front to back, so it exerts down force on the board as well as pushing it from behind. It's 5/8" plywood and has a lot of saw cuts on it. Easy to make a new one when it gets chewed up too much.

About 20 years ago I made a cover for the table saw, 1/2" MDF with some thin rails around three edges and one for the right side miter slot, so the tool is frequently a table when it's not being a saw. Still use the same cover, which now has paint, varnish, glue, various cut marks, etc. on it. Also it keeps your shop cat saliva (from their grooming) from staining the saw table.

[whit richardson]

I agree with the above posters on good safety pratices. Also the mention of Grippers.. this product http://www.woodpeck.com/griptite.html in combination with good safety pratice should give you the confidence that you will not have kickback. Cutting small stock and no splitter or pinching stock is almost a guarantee of kickback. Once I started using these guys I felt safer with thin and small stock right away.

[Barry Stratton]

Tablesaws are also VERY useful to store turning blanks on and under:D

Anything can be dangerous if one doesn't know how to use it, even a fork. Get some training and keep it. You will be amazed how useful a good tabesaw is around ther shop!

[robert hainstock]

I sold my 12in Jet table saw four years ago because at my advanced age and health problems, I still can count all ten digits and want to keep it that way. I can cut every thing I need on my Rockwell, (Delta) 12in bandsaw. There is lots of good advice here, but not for me. :eek::eek::)
Bob

[Mike Lipke]

"Any tool can be dangerous, even a fork"

[Mike Lipke]

Okay, here is the 'rest of the story'

[Harvey M. Taylor]

You can spend 50 or 60 bucks for a commercially made gripper if you want to. I am too thrifty[read as cheap].Itake a 2X4 about 10 or 12 in. long, glue a three-eights strip at the back on the 4 inch end , no screws.on the top, one or 2 dowels glued in as a handle or cut a slot to fit a plywood handle to push with.Set the blade a quarter in. higher than the workpiece and use the home-made gripper to hold the workpiece down on both sides of the blade and saw away. too many grooves?put the strip of plywood at the other end as a pusher, and saw away. when too ragged to use, get another 2x4 and start over.Simple. Max.

[John Gornall]

Go to the DIY network and find an episode of David Marks woodworking. You'll have to watch the commercial and then a brief introduction by David Marks then you see the show intro segment and video. Watch this video and you'll see David cutting a piece about 1/4 thick by 2 deep by 1 1/2 wide on a tablesaw safely. It'll give you a good idea of how to set up your saw to cut small pieces. The table saw is a do all machine but often needs specific setups to do some jobs safely.

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

Doug, short answer - keep the table saw. You'll kick yourself later if you sell it. There's been lots of good safety advice. In general, there's usually always a safe way to perform required cuts on any saw. With relatively small pieces, my unversal advice is, whenever possible, attach the small piece to something bigger. In the case of small bottle stopper stock, a homemade sled with a clamp simplifies the chore and takes most of the danger away. I use a wide variety of table saw sleds.

[Kaptan J.W. Meek]

I was too slow to respond and Brodie beat me too it.. My dad is my "wood work" partner and fortunatly he can do almost anything with a table saw.. He teaches me about the saw, and I teach him about the lathe. Take a class, beyond safety, you can learn about making jigs and stuff that will open a whole new world of things that can help your turning projects. Don't get rid of your saw, learn it. The cross-cut sled is a BIG help.. at least learn about that..

[doug young]

Thank you everyone, The advice was great. This forum is amazing. thanks again. doug

[Rusty Smith]

Doug,
I didn't read through all the responses so maybe you have already gottent this. There is a pretty good write up on making a sled for cutting segments here: http://www.turnedwood.com/framesled.html

I think this is the same design that William Smith uses and describes in his book Segmented Wood Turning. The book by Malcolm Tibbetts also has jig making instructions in his book The Art of Segmented Wood Turning - A Step-by-Step Guide.

HTH