Hard maple, not just a clever name

[Jerome Hanby]

Have a couple of pieces of 8/4 hard maple that I picked up with the idea of making wooden vice screws. Decided to cut off a strip last night to turn on the lathe. With my best rip blade, it was all my saw could handle! Maybe I need to rethink getting by with my contractor saw and actively look for a cabinet or hybrid. I'm assuming that putting a larger 220 volt motor in place of my 1.5 hp 110 volt motor isn't a practical course of action?

[David DeCristoforo]

8/4 hard maple would tax any 1.5 HP saw. Adding a bigger motor is risky. Is the saw stout enough in other ways to handle the extra load? Unlikely. Better to upgrade the machine.

[Gary Curtis]

Made my kitchen cabinets in newly constructed house from hard maple. Also called Sugar Maple. My cabinet saw has a 5hp motor. You are right about needing all the power.

Hey, and the fun isn't over yet. Wait until you try to apply stain. It can barely penetrate the pores.

Gary Curtis

[Tom Esh]

Thin-kerf blade? Makes a huge difference on low power saws.

[Lee Schierer]

I agree with Tom, try a thin Kerf ripping blade for ripping hard maple. Working with thicker woods, particularly hard maple you want to use dedicated purpose blades for each type of cut. Combination blades have their place, but it is not when cutting hard maple on a small Hp saw. The thin kerf blades will be like adding a bigger motor to your saw with a fraction of the cost.

[David DeCristoforo]

Thin kerf blades can help a lot. They can also easily overheat, warp and exacerbate the problem by orders of magnitude. No substitute for a 3-5 hp table saw with a good quality ripping blade. May I quote the OP: "Maybe I need to rethink getting by...". Now come on... you don't really want to talk the guy out of getting a better saw do you?

[glenn bradley]

I cut a fair amount of hard maple with dedicated rip and crosscut TK blades on the 1.75HP 22124. I did have a problem once on a bevel cut but this went away after I fixed an alignment issue -and- this was 5/4, not 8/4 ;-)

[Chip Lindley]

As I've stated here before, switching to 220V when possible makes all the difference. Usually there are other draws on the 15A circuit that your tablesaw shares. The 15A is not available for your 110V saw unless you turn off the lights and unplug your cordless charger. My CS not only bogged down, it tripped the breaker repeatedly in hard cuts! Switching my old Rockwell 1.5 hp contractors saw to 220V made it a whole new beast. The motor was 15A/110V, 7.5A/220A. A simple terminal change and new plug was all that was needed.

I never used thin kerf, always 50T combo blades, and that old saw cut anything I would throw at it. Even some 8/4 hard maple!! I did not say it cut it LIKE BUTTA; any saw will "talk to ya" on heavy cuts, but 220V made a huge difference. A sharp, clean blade is the Rest Of The Story!

If your saw is designed to cope with a heavier, larger motor, and the cost involved in a new motor will determine if you upgrade your motor OR your saw. I still reverence that old Rockwell CS, but I LUV<3 my 3hp PM66.

[Leigh Betsch]

I agree with Chip, 220 when possible. I know the agruments and math, 110 @ 12 amps and 220 @ 6 amps, same power. But switching my old Rockwell saw from 110 to 220 made a big difference. When the saw started to bog down the 220 would keep going and the 110 would bog until it tripped the breaker. Of course that was the past, now the MiniMax St-4 with a 12" woodworker II, and 6.4 hp of 3 phase snort don't even acknowledge there is anything being cut, ....... unless you use a dull blade.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I second the thin-kerf for "underpowered saws", but do be careful about blade deflection and overheating. Also, clearing up any 'alignment issues' can be a huge help. I was ripping some maple for runners for a crosscut sled, and had to fix my fence alignment - it went from barely able to cut, with burning, to a pretty easy cut. makes a world of difference.

[Ken Garlock]

Well, this falls under the general category of opinions. Every body has one, etc...:)

This summer I built an all sugar maple workbench. The base is constructed of 3x3 legs, 3x3 feet, and 2x 6 stringers which also support the top. I dare say that I have cut a goodly amount of maple on my 3hp Bridgewood cabinet saw. When I started I had a well used Forrest Blade mounted, and it was giving me some nasty black burns on the maple. I changed it out for another Forrest blade that had been recently sharpened. From there on it was like downtown, no burns, just cut, cut, cut. There were a couple 2x boards that were too long to feed into the cabinet saw, so they were ripped on the MM-16. That was another smooth operation using a Highland WW Wood Slicer blade.

My experience says that a sharp blade is mandatory. Everything else is secondary.:cool:

[David DeCristoforo]

Geez... What's happening to this forum? Guys not trying to talk someone into getting a bigger saw??????? I swear... never thought I'd see the day. I'm really disappointed in you guys... thin kerf blade..... sheech...

[Ben West]

David...you're absolutely right. What is going on? It's like a bizzaro world.

Jerome, you definitely need one of these to make your cuts.

http://www.olivermachinery.net/machines.asp?machine=4060

How's that??? (http://www.olivermachinery.net/machines.asp?machine=4060http://www.olivermachinery.net/machines.asp?machine=4060)

[Chris Padilla]

Use a bandsaw...much safer! ;)

Did you plan to use the Beall system to make the wooden screws? I've been toying with picking up their 1.5" system and making myself some leveling legs for outfeed/support tables.

[Hank Knight]

David...you're absolutely right. What is going on? It's like a bizzaro world.

Jerome, you definitely need one of these to make your cuts.

http://www.olivermachinery.net/machines.asp?machine=4060

How's that??? (http://www.olivermachinery.net/machines.asp?machine=4060http://www.olivermachinery.net/machines.asp?machine=4060)

That saw is only 10 Hp. Jerome's cutting 8/4 HARD maple. C'mon.

Seriously, though, I cut lots of hard maple on a 1.75 Hp contractor's saw with a TK rip blade. Let the saw cut at it's own pace and don't force it. You'll probably get some burning, but you should be fine. I agree with Chris, a bandsaw is safer, especially if you're ripping big, heavy 8/4 boards. Rip close to the line on the bandsaw, then clean up the cut on your tablesaw.

Hank

[Chris Padilla]

I agree with Chris, a bandsaw is safer, especially if you're ripping big, heavy 8/4 boards. Rip close to the line on the bandsaw, then clean up the cut on your tablesaw.

Hank

...or neander it with a nice jointer plane.... :)

[Robert Chapman]

Up here in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan we are proud of our Hard Maple. It is a very durable material and Hard Maple from the Keweenaw Peninsula of the UP is some of the finest in the world. Very light colored and very dense. Great furniture wood. We also grow Birdseye and Curly maple if you like figured wood.

[Peter Quinn]

You have to love that Oliver saw. Seriously, are they not well? At the point where I need a 14" saw with a 10HP motor to cut something, I also need a carpet feed and a chip shroud, anti kick back chains and such. That saw is just silly. Have you considered a Northfield?

I have no problem cutting hard maple on my PM66. Thing I wonder about is soft maple. How did they name that one? Having bent down to pick up something and stood up straight into a board, I would think it should be called "Not the hardest maple, but not so soft either".:eek:

Do you have room for a straight line saw? Makes ripping much easier. Or perhaps a big band saw?

[Mike Henderson]

I upgraded my contractor's saw to a good 2HP motor and the saw handles the motor and HP well. But 2HP is about all the single belt will transmit. And 2HP works well for my needs. I push wood through the blade at a moderate speed and don't have any problems.

Also agree that a sharp blade is a must.

Mike

[Craig Hemsath]

Geez... What's happening to this forum? Guys not trying to talk someone into getting a bigger saw??????? I swear... never thought I'd see the day. I'm really disappointed in you guys... thin kerf blade..... sheech...

Well, with the economy the way it is. Hate to see him splurge on a new saw, get into a bind and have to sell his tools. ;)

[Craig D Peltier]

Just last week I ripped some 8/4 rock maple 8 footers with a 2.5hp jet 220 volt saw. I dont use a splitter or guard.The only time it bogged right down is when internal stress pulled the kerf together on the blade.
Ive done this with white oak on a ridgid contractors saw on 110 volt.Stopped the saw blade constantly.
You need a bigger saw.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Jerome,
When I had my 1.5 hp contractor TS, I wrenched extra performance out of it with a thin kerf blade AND a link belt. The link belt does wonders for power transfer and does not develop a memory like a v-belt will. As for the thin kerf, I used a blade stiffener when deflection in hard stuff was an issue.

Definitely look into a length of link belt. It's an inexpensive upgrade that is well worth it.

[David Keller NC]

Craig - Maybe I'm not the only one that noticed this, but your comment " I dont use a splitter or guard" got my attention. Saying that doing this is incredibly dangerous on a table saw is the understatement of the year.

It's no exaggeration to say that you're risking your life by doing this, particularly cutting rough and thick stock. All it takes is a bit of twisted grain on those boards, and the saw will ram that board back in your direction with tremendous force, easily enough to break bones or cause a fatal injury to an internal organ. And just standing to the left of the blade isn't enough - many kickback injuries occur when the saw picks the back of the board off of the table, pivots it against the front, and brings it around like a major leaguer taking a swing at a fastball.

At the very least, install a shop-made splitter.

[Chris Padilla]

David,

I noticed and immediately thought: YOWZER! I like to use a bandsaw in situations like these anyway...table saws and large chunks of hardwood scare the daylights out of me....

[Chip Lindley]

Yes! More HorsePower!!

I would never want to be responsible (legally or morally) for a divorce or other legal action by goading a woodworker into buying such a big ticket item!! but...

Ahem...well... I did allude to my MuchoBetta 3hp PM66. (5hp would be NICE!) I would never go back to a CS unless I needed one on a job site. BUT, I DID NOT spring for full retail price when I was finally blessed with my 66. *Gloat* I picked up the "saw package" at auction, just the way the wealthy Dr. bought it. Complete with Exakta sliding table, 50" Biese-style fence, Overarm blade guard with dust extraction, and HTC mobile base--ALL for the paltry sum of $1175!!! Thats about 25cents on the dollar for you folks playing along at home!

Maybe its just ME, but if I can't get a bargain, I can just Wait! I have never paid retail for any of my tools. Most were acquired at auctions within 100 miles of my home. Since I do not own a business to amortize my business tooling, The *Boss* seems to take it better when I can show my prowess at saving her lots of $$$ on my BigToyz! *wink*

[David Keller NC]

"I noticed and immediately thought: YOWZER! I like to use a bandsaw in situations like these anyway...table saws and large chunks of hardwood scare the daylights out of me...."

Read carefully, his post looks like it might just be a very unfunny joke "(The only time it bogged right down is when internal stress pulled the kerf together on the blade)". If that's his idea of funny, I'm not sure I'd want to be witness to one of his practical jokes.

[Russell Tribby]

I just ripped some 1 3/4" hard maple with my Festool TS-55 with a Tenyru multipurpose blade on it. The saw didn't think twice and the cut was excellent. I know Festool is expensive but I really appreciated the results and ease of use when doing this.

[Jim Heffner]

A good quality sharp blade goes a long way when cutting hard maple.
That is probably why pool cue sticks are as tough as they are! I like to make some of my dowels for bench dogs out of broken cue sticks, hard wood for sure and it can take a lot of rough treatment as well!

[Jerome Hanby]

I was using a nearly new Freud Glue Line rip blade. I'm no expert but my gut feeling is I'm not going to find a hugely better blade. Already have the link belt. No mention in the manual, so I don't think I can rewire my motor for 220. I may dust it off, maybe remove it so I can get a better look and make sure. I was never planning on upgrading the motor, I figured an eventual purchase of a cabinet or hybrid saw made more sense, but barring a lucky find on Craigslist, that's quite a few months down the line. You guys think an upgrade to a 220 volt two HP motor (currently 1.5 hp 11o volt) would be worth the time an effort? Hopefully I'll be seeing quite a few 8/4 hard maple rips in the near future.

I could grab a thin kerf blade and maybe a stabilizer to try. Think that will make a significant difference? Freud's 24T thin kerf a god choice?

[Sonny Edmonds]

Bah Humbug!
I tried some out and found they caused more damage than the minute amount they saved.
Even with my power feeder (eliminate the human error element) I could watch the blade develop harmonic imbalances as it encountered harder and softer parts (strain) in the woods being cut.
Using a dedicated glue joint rip blade (http://www.justsawblades.com/systimatic/rip.htm), I don't spend my time at the jointer fixing the problems that a thin kerf blade creates. (37207)
I won't let a thin kerf blade in my shop.
I'm an advocate for proper power for proper results. ;)

[scott spencer]

I've managed to score quite a bit of free 8/4" hard maple from work. Built my workbench, a wine cabinet, end table, and few other items from it. It is stuff stuff, but with a decent 24T TK FTG ripper like the Leitz/Irwin, Infinity, Freud, or UK made DeWalt series 40, my 1-3/4hp hybrid did pretty well with it. My new 3hp Shop Fox definitely cuts it faster, but if your wood is flat, and your saw aligned, for the quantities most hobbyist use you'll get through without much issue with a sharp decent quality TK ripper.

[scott spencer]

Craig - Maybe I'm not the only one that noticed this, but your comment " I dont use a splitter or guard" got my attention. Saying that doing this is incredibly dangerous on a table saw is the understatement of the year.

It's no exaggeration to say that you're risking your life by doing this, particularly cutting rough and thick stock. All it takes is a bit of twisted grain on those boards, and the saw will ram that board back in your direction with tremendous force, easily enough to break bones or cause a fatal injury to an internal organ. And just standing to the left of the blade isn't enough - many kickback injuries occur when the saw picks the back of the board off of the table, pivots it against the front, and brings it around like a major leaguer taking a swing at a fastball.

At the very least, install a shop-made splitter.

I had the same initial thought as you, but then reread that the boards are 8 footers....while not an ideal situation, his saw is more likely to bog than throw an 8 foot 8/4" piece of hard maple. A splitter is wise to have nonetheless.

[David Keller NC]

"I had the same initial thought as you, but then reread that the boards are 8 footers....while not an ideal situation, his saw is more likely to bog than throw an 8 foot 8/4" piece of hard maple. A splitter is wise to have nonetheless."

I think you'd be surprised. A 1.5 HP motor has more than enough torque and power to launch a 40 lb board - I've seen it happen. Luckily for me (and the operator), neither of us were in the line of fire. It did take a big chunk out of the concrete block wall, however.

[Jerome Hanby]

I get to dodge that bullet. This is for a tool handle. I may rub a little tung oil into it, but other than that....

Hey, and the fun isn't over yet. Wait until you try to apply stain. It can barely penetrate the pores.

Gary Curtis

[Jerome Hanby]

Actually I've tracked down an old copy of FWW (thanks to the creekers that helped me) that deals with cutting wooden screws. I've got an itch to make some really large vise screws (2-3 inches) and Beall topped out at 1.5. I may try some creative engineering and try to build a Beall-like gizmo that uses a 1.5 inch threaded tenon on my first screw to pull the rest of the three inch blank through the gizmo. That would let me pull myself up by my bootstraps to get a three inch screw that I could use to make a three inch tap, use that to make a three inch nut, and use that to replace the 1.5 inch nut on my gizmo. I found and ordered some v shaped carbide cutters at McMaster Carr that I think will work well on the tap.

I may never get an actual vise built, but fidling with this has already got me half talked into buying a cabinet saw, setting up the lathe, making a tool handle for practice, and collecting all kinds of wood threading info and gizmos.

Of course, those 2 $8 wood craft vise screws I bought prompted by the deals and discounts post may be the real culprit in the eventual demise of my vise project :D



Use a bandsaw...much safer! ;)

Did you plan to use the Beall system to make the wooden screws? I've been toying with picking up their 1.5" system and making myself some leveling legs for outfeed/support tables.

[Jerome Hanby]

Do you have room for a straight line saw? Makes ripping much easier. Or perhaps a big band saw?

If the typical straight line rip saw is about the same as the grizzly that popped up when I googled the term, well...the shipping on that beast is more than my budget for the whole saw :D

[Charles Wade]

I cut 2 3/4" thick hard maple pretty easily with a Jet Contractors saw and a thin kerf WW II combination blade. You have to be careful with the feed rate, though, and allow for some buring. chuck