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Gregg Vaughn
11-20-2008, 8:28 AM
I have a local police department who is asking for their badge to be engraved on the blank side of the magazine well of their AR-15 (M-16A1) rifiles. These are original Colt M-16A1 rifles and have the heavy black annodized (?) surfaces. Has anyone tried one of these before?

Mike Null
11-20-2008, 8:39 AM
Greg

I just did one a week or so back. The mark the customer wanted was just text to satisfy the DEA.

I chose to diamond drag it to match the rest of the receiver. I ran it four times and got to bare metal but when we oxidized it it wasn't visible.

The next time I would rout it.

I'm pretty sure the laser will mark it but have no idea what it will look like. I couldn't believe how thick the oxide coating was.

R. A. Mitchell
11-20-2008, 9:43 AM
I think these are blued steel, not anodized aluminum. I'd be surprised if a laser did a good job with that kind of finish, and if it did, then the steel would be exposed which is a bad thing.

My wife holds an FFL and is a gun engraver. You should be aware that it is illegal to take someone else's firearm and alter it unless they stay on site with you. You certainly can't hold it overnight. Some parts are OK, like grips and non-firing accessories, but doing gun barrels and receivers generally requires a Federal Firearms License.

Mike Null
11-20-2008, 12:57 PM
This one was definitely oxidized-not anodized and not blued. I just can't believe the thickness. I'm guessing .003-.005".

Dave Johnson29
11-20-2008, 2:14 PM
This one was definitely oxidized-not anodized and not blued. I just can't believe the thickness. I'm guessing .003-.005".

Hi Mike,

That coating is probably hard anodized mil-spec Teflon coating. It gives the impression of being thicker because of the rough texture and it results in 0.001" to 0.003" build up. Hard anodizing is exactly what it says, it will eat High Speed Steel milling cutters and I have had to use Carbide cutters exclusively and at quite slow rotational speed. I have not machined any gun parts but have done some machine parts after they were hard anodized. Client: "Oops, we forgot a groove here, can you do it...":):)

Being an anodized finish it should laser OK. I have some left over bits here from an old machine and I will try to burn them later today and see what happens.

Gary Hair
11-20-2008, 3:06 PM
I think these are blued steel, not anodized aluminum.
I haven't seen a steel one yet, they have all been anodized aluminum.


You should be aware that it is illegal to take someone else's firearm and alter it unless they stay on site with you. You certainly can't hold it overnight. Some parts are OK, like grips and non-firing accessories, but doing gun barrels and receivers generally requires a Federal Firearms License.

I checked with the ATF earlier this year and was told that as long as I am working on a firearm owned by a person, not a gun shop, then I can do whatever they ask me to do and keep it as long as I like. If a gun shop brings a firearm to me then they either have to stay with it or do a transfer from one FFL to another - completely different when it has been sold and brought to me by the owner.

You also have to be clear about what ATF considers a "firearm". The receiver of an AR, without any other parts attached, is still considered a firearm in the eyes of the ATF - it doesn't even have to be able to fire in its current state.

If any of this has changed then I would like to see it in writing.

Gary

Lee DeRaud
11-20-2008, 8:12 PM
I checked with the ATF earlier this year and was told that as long as I am working on a firearm owned by a person, not a gun shop, then I can do whatever they ask me to do and keep it as long as I like. If a gun shop brings a firearm to me then they either have to stay with it or do a transfer from one FFL to another - completely different when it has been sold and brought to me by the owner.

You also have to be clear about what ATF considers a "firearm". The receiver of an AR, without any other parts attached, is still considered a firearm in the eyes of the ATF - it doesn't even have to be able to fire in its current state.

If any of this has changed then I would like to see it in writing.One possible gotcha: there's a legal world of difference between a semi-automatic AR15 and a fullly-automatic M16-A1.

Mike Null
11-21-2008, 6:48 AM
Dave

You may be right but my experience with hard anodized items is that the coating is very thin. This was a minimum of .003" and maybe more--very rough like it was sprayed on.

The purpose of marking this piece was to engrave a name and city to meet ATF regs as the weapon was going to be modified with a shorter barrel.

Gregg Vaughn
11-25-2008, 3:14 PM
Thanks for the input .... They are going to bring me a upper section of a damaged rifle to experiment on (it has the same finish) .... I'll let you know what happens.

Mike Null
11-25-2008, 10:27 PM
After doing a little more research I believe Dave is correct. But this is unlike any anodizing I've ever seen. A bit sloppy in my opinion.