Vertical Raised Panel Bits - experiences??

[John Keeton]

I have a 3.25 hp router mounted in my TS extension and would like to do raised panels. But I simply do not like the idea of the horizontal panel raising bit for safety reasons - spelled "fear." I do have variable speed on my router. What are the thoughts? I have read some posts, and comments that the quality of cut is not as good. But, is it sandable, correctable, etc.

Balancing safety and other factors, what would you do? A shaper is not in the mix.

[Bill White]

work well if you can find them with a "shear" cut. More of a slice than a direct cut will leave a smoother surface.
I'm with ya on the fear factor. Ideally a shaper for safety, but like you, I don't have one.
Also, lots of feather boards, hold downs, etc. to keep the workpiece snug to the TALL fence.
Bill

[Chip Lindley]

There is no more "safety" to a shaper setup for horizontal raised panels than for a router table. Infact, LESS I feel! Just think how much more steel is spinning on a shaper spindle than in a router collet! The advantage of a shaper is horsepower to complete the cut in one pass. Safety is still a huge factor. I have had "honeycombed" wood explode on the shaper while panel raising! That is when I obtained a used kevlar vest and a lexan face guard.

The key to raising panels with a router is to make the cuts in multiple passes, with a very small final clean up cut. Good hold downs are a must to prevent the stock from raising off the table. Square panels can be run easily along a solid fence with hold downs. No problem there. But, I made a jig to hold the panels for "cathedral" arch cuts, giving me much more to grip than just trying to hold onto the panel edge. Following the above, there is no reason not to succeed.

I would have less fear of a horizontal set up which pushes the stock down and toward the cutter, than a vertical setup which must in addition, be kept from tilting from vertical when being fed.

[David DeCristoforo]

IMMHO, there is one (and only one) situation when a vertical cutter is preferable to a horizontal one and that is in the shaping of bowed panels like the ones shown here:

http://www.daviddecristoforo.com/bardis/images/001_bath_1.jpg

In this case they are indispensable

[frank shic]

david, did you build those curved raised panel door/drawer fronts? very nice work!

[David DeCristoforo]

"...did you build those..."

Yes. Thanx for your kind words. They were a miracle of sorts because we did the casework first and delivered it to the job site three hundred miles away. Then, months later we made all of the doors and drawers using the layouts from the casework and the curved panels fit perfectly!! Pure act of god but the guys on the job were impressed so we got some "creds"....

[David Keller NC]

"I have a 3.25 hp router mounted in my TS extension and would like to do raised panels. But I simply do not like the idea of the horizontal panel raising bit for safety reasons - spelled "fear." I do have variable speed on my router. What are the thoughts? I have read some posts, and comments that the quality of cut is not as good. But, is it sandable, correctable, etc."

John - I use both power and hand tools, with no particular prejudice toward either, depending on what I'm working on. My thought here is that if fear is a significant factor, and you're not doing a whole kitchen of raised panels, you might seriously consider buying a panel-raising plane. The new Veritas skew-rabbet planes, with the addition of an attached wooden sub-fence, will work gloriously towards this end, and they're relatively inexpensive - $250 (which is about what a kitchen-cabinet Freud bit set costs). The Lie-Nielsen skew block planes that have been offerred for a number of years also make quite nice panel raisers - no auxillary fence required.

When appropriate to the piece (i.e., a colonial period reproduction), I do this with a wooden panel raiser. In good shape, they can be had for about $150 - $250, depending on how good a shape, who made them, and the size. You'd be amazed at how fast this can be done with one of these planes - in general, less time than it takes to set up the router table with the panel raising bit and making 3-4 passes.

That said, though, if I've got 10 of them to do, I much, much prefer horizontal panel raising bits to the vertical ones - it's much easier to control the stock, and with modern metallurgy (and assuming you're not buying el cheapo Chinese-made panel raising bits), the danger comes from losing control of the stock and having it grab and being thrown across the shop, not from the bit exploding.

[frank shic]

another option would be to use a horizontally mounted router table so that you could apply the pressure downwards instead of sideways. still loving those beaded inset curved cabinet doors...

[Jim Kountz]

I guess I'll be the exception here because I happen to love the vertical bits and prefer them over the horizontal. I made a simple setup with a tall fence and some tall hold ins kinda like you would use for resawing on the bandsaw. I found it easier for me to do that way. You run all four sides, give the fence a tap over and run again. I use the horizontal bits too since I already have several profiles in that type of bit and not in a vertical.

[John Keeton]

Jim, do you mind saying what kind of vertical bit you use? The Freud vertical traditional profile bit is available for about $39. I will use M&T joints (haunched tenons), and run my grooves on the TS.

David Keller, you don't know how much I want to buy a new plane(s), but I have compelled myself to slow down with that. I recently have purchased 3 new planes, fell down the slippery slope, grabbed a branch, and hanging on for dear life. I have looked at the LV skew-rabbet plane, and it looks like it would make quick work of a panel. Even read some posts on the creek on that setup. But, my knuckles aren't dragging low enough yet for that use - I am tempted though!!

David DeChristoforo, I trust your judgment as I know you have as much experience with cabinet making as probably anyone on the creek. But, I also know that your comfort level with some of the setups is probably much greater than mine.

[Jim Kountz]

[QUOTE=John Keeton;971913]Jim, do you mind saying what kind of vertical bit you use? The Freud vertical traditional profile bit is available for about $39. I will use M&T joints (haunched tenons), and run my grooves on the TS.

[QUOTE]

I have two CMT vertical panel raisers, one ogee and the other just a bevel. They are both shear cutting bits meaning the flutes arent straight up and down vertically. They are angled or shear. They cut beautifully.

[John Keeton]

Thanks Jim. I have some CMT bits that I have had for several years. Seems they don't get quite the ratings as other mfgrs, but I have had good luck with mine. However, the Freud is available for less money than others. I have always had good luck with their bits, as well. The question is whether the Freud is a shear cutting bit. I have done some searching, but not answer, so I emailed Charles McCracken to find out.

[David Keller NC]

"David Keller, you don't know how much I want to buy a new plane(s), but I have compelled myself to slow down with that. I recently have purchased 3 new planes, fell down the slippery slope, grabbed a branch, and hanging on for dear life. I have looked at the LV skew-rabbet plane, and it looks like it would make quick work of a panel. Even read some posts on the creek on that setup. But, my knuckles aren't dragging low enough yet for that use - I am tempted though!!"

Ha! You've no idea how bad this slope can get - I long ago went off the cliff and have more than 400 wooden molding planes.

That said, I wooden panel raiser is really, really useful - I'm not kidding when I say I can crank out a raised panel in considerably less time than it takes to set up the router, router fence, make 2 or 3 passes, and sand the results. Done correctly, a panel raiser doesn't require any sanding unless done in a really gnarly wood.

However, I'll blow my neander credentials by saying that I'd go the router route if I had 20 of them to do - I'd be one tired puppy at the end of that day if I did it with a woodie.

[Charles McCracken]

The question is whether the Freud is a shear cutting bit.

Yes, Freud Vertical Raised Panel Bits have shear.

[Charles McCracken]

I'd be one tired puppy at the end of that day if I did it with a woodie.

I'll bet so! Can you say Priapism?

[John Keeton]

Just a note to say, as I have stated previously, the participation of vendors and their reps on SMC is what makes this the best forum out there. I emailed Charles, received a prompt and informative reply, and he took the time to post in this thread. THAT is customer service! Thanks again Charles.

[David Keller NC]

"I'll bet so! Can you say Priapism?"

Ha! Yeah - nothing like those warnings of "If you experience an erection that lasts more than 4 hours, contact your doctor as permanent injury may result..."