Evaporust

[Douglas Brummett]

http://www.evaporust.com/

Just wanted to put up a little feedback on this stuff. Surprisingly enough it actually works. It does require some scrubbing here and there to speed things along, but overall I am pretty impressed. No noxious fumes, heavy rubber gloves, explosive byproducts, or risk of electrocution.

I am going through rehab on a couple of #6 planes ( 1 family heirloom, and one from ebay). Both of these planes are rusty to the point that screws were seized and prospects of beauty were questionable. See attached image of the ebay plane. The heirloom was actually worse having spent about 15 years on my grandfathers back porch.

It isn't magic, it isn't fast, but it does work. Within the process of the day I was able to go through all of the small parts, frogs, and irons. The first body is soaking over night, but after only a couple hours it was looking good. I found that taking the parts out and scrubbing or wire wheel cleaning them worked wonders for getting to even thick rust deposits. I don't know if the thicker deposits would dissolve on their own, but I kind of doubt it.

I will post a follow up once my camera gets back from vacation. The irons and lever cap pictured all came out looking very nice, the iron actually turned out the be a sweetheart. Never can tell what you will get off ebay when you bid on ugly ducklings

[Terry Beadle]

I don't think I'd be nearly as brave buying off the bay such a rusty looking plane. Be sure to post those 'after' pics when the camera comes back.

I'm also wondering if the blades were toast and you have to replace them? I bought a bedrock 605 off the bay and replaced it's iron with a Ron Hock 2 incher. Really does a great job and the blade holds an edge.

Can't wait to see the afters!

Thanks for posting.

[Douglas Brummett]

I normally don't buy anything this rough. But the handles looked good and I figured that I would give a full restoration a try. For the $20 even if it turned out to only be good for handles and hardware it was still a good deal. Then right after I bought that one my dad shows up with one he found in my grandfathers junk pile that actually belonged to my great grandfather.

Regarding blades. I am a big fan of the hock blades. All of my Bailey's have Rev. Ron's blade and breaker kits. Not only is the extra mass nice, but not having to mess with the old irons is great. Most of my old irons and chip breakers are pitted, bent, or have been beat with a hammer. The ones pictured are a bit pitted, but I will sharpen and test the outcome. It's a number 6, not a smoother so even if it has pits in portions of the blade it will still work fine.

[Douglas Brummett]

Some early after shots

[Douglas Brummett]

and the eh-hem heirloom in process:D

This one may take a bit of work. Not only is it rusty, but it does have a slight rock on my CI tablesaw. I will post back once I know more.

It is interesting the difference in the castings of these 2 planes. This older plane is thinner and oddly enough actually a bit taller. I had to displace some dip with the spare parts cup to get the level high enough to cover this one.

[Ron Dunn]

I've used Evaporust with exactly the same results as reported by Douglas. Even more surprising, it keeps on working ... the same batch can be used over and over again.

Douglas, have you used electrolysis (or any other method) before? I'm interested in an objective comparison.

[Ken Werner]

I've used Evaporust too, and dittos from me on the quality and ease of use. I have used electrolysis also. I'd say the Evaporust does as well, maybe even better, with alot less work. I have not used Evaporust on a big item though - like a No. 6 body.

Just my 2 millivolts...

[Douglas Brummett]

Douglas, have you used electrolysis (or any other method) before? I'm interested in an objective comparison.

Previously I would just use the brute force method of wire wheel, wire brushes, steel wool, scotch pads, and wd40. After seeing these results I think I will be using this method in the future. It is a little bit of a process but overall is much less labor intensive with better end results.

I am interested in electrolysis, but have steered clear of it since I have dogs and kids around. That and the explosive byproduct have had me on the fence. In retrospect it may be a better process for these 2 planes since I am also stripping the japanning off.

[David Keller NC]

I took a look at Evaporust's technical information on their website. It's got some really interesting chemistry - the chelating agent is probably EDTA, but I'm not sure what the adjunct sulfur compound is.

As an alternative to electrolysis (by the way - you're going to produce very little hydrogen by this method. Unless you've enclosed the whole thing in an air-proof tub or something, there's little chance of building up enough hydrogen to cause a fire or explosion), I checked out the citric acid method. Man, does it work well! And the chemical is really cheap, safe to handle, and you don't have to store any liquids. In a sense, the sitric acid is working as part of the Evaporust chemistry - citric acid is a pretty good chelator.

[Douglas Brummett]

Hey David, thanks for the comments and touch of chemistry. I am not too worried about the hydrogen oxygen gas. I am more concerned about having a live electrical circuit and a tub of water that little animals could come in contact with.

I had heard of the citric acid and TSP methods, but didn't have time to bone up on them. I would like to investigate these more when I have some spare time. Odds are they would be far more economical than buying evaporust by the gallon.

That turquoise tub is a disposable mud tray from Lowe's. It holds just about a gallon. If you are clever it will hold 2 no.6 planes at a time :) Not sure if it will hold a no.7. For $3 it is the best size, shape, and expense for this task.

[David Keller NC]

Doug - Assuming you're referring to the "stove pipe" method with sodium carbonate (washing soda), and iron bar, and a battery charger, there's no danger from the electricity. While it's true that testing 9 V batteries by touching them to your tongue is generally a mistake that most of us only do once, you'd have to work hard to get a jolt out of 12V DC - you'd have to have one hand in the bath, and the other hand wet with salty water touching the building ground.

Even then, 12V is not enough to do much of anything, except perhaps to wake you up!

[Michael Faurot]

I am interested in electrolysis, but have steered clear of it since I have dogs and kids around.


That can be an issue--especially since you need to do it outside. I ran into that issue with one of my dogs. I use a 5 gallon bucket as my tank and had this going, out on my back patio. I let the dogs out to do their business and one of them noticed the new objects out there and decided he needed to mark the bucket as his turf. Fortunately the dog chose the bucket instead of the battery charger to mark, and nothing happened to him.



That and the explosive byproduct have had me on the fence.
Using a 5 gallon bucket and doing it outside I've had no problems with the amount of hydrogen produced. I think the only way it could be a problem is if you were to try and deliberately ignite the small amount of vapor by doing something unwise like sticking a lighter or a match in there.



In retrospect it may be a better process for these 2 planes since I am also stripping the japanning off.Electrolysis typically won't strip off japaning or paint. It will cause paint/japaning to flake off if there's rust under there. On the planes I've done, where I wanted to remove the japaning, I've had to follow-up the electrolysis with something like carborateor cleaner to get rid of the japaning.

[Michael Faurot]

Doug - Assuming you're referring to the "stove pipe" method with sodium carbonate (washing soda), and iron bar, and a battery charger, there's no danger from the electricity.
[...]
Even then, 12V is not enough to do much of anything, except perhaps to wake you up!

When I've done electrolysis, my concern with electricity has been with the battery charger itself and the 120V AC it uses. My charger has vent holes on the top, so I've been careful about not letting any water get into it during the process. Also there's the issue of what might happen if the tank were to get knocked over and its close proximity to the battery charger. Or the problem of a territorial dog that wants to mark the electrolysis equipment as his. :) I took the safety precaution of installing a GFCI outlet just in case.

[David Martino]

I've used Evaporust on a couple of braces with very good results. Mostly light rust, it seems to work quickly (i.e. results in hours not days). Both braces had most of their nickel plating ... not much exposed steel. I've heard Evaporust can leave a gray film on bare steel/iron -- anyone have any experience of that? Is it hard to remove?

Ease of use/no fumes or acid are a big plus; it is a little expensive (would be if you did a lot of restoring). Does anyone know of a good set of instructions or link for citric acid? I'm curious to try it...

PS Who says it's a bad idea to test a 9V on the tongue?! I've done it lots of times and the effects are barely notithable! :D

[David Keller NC]

Micheal - that's a good point about the battery charger itself, definitely not something you'd want to accidentally knock into the tank. By the way - if anyone reading this wants to try the electrolysis method and has little kids around that might get a bit too curious, you can use a standard 12V trolling motor battery instead of the battery charger. Trolling motor batteries have more than enough juice for 12 hours or so of operation, and the deep discharge won't hurt them.

"Ease of use/no fumes or acid are a big plus; it is a little expensive (would be if you did a lot of restoring). Does anyone know of a good set of instructions or link for citric acid? I'm curious to try it..."

I've done quite a bit of this - here's the short directions: Dissolve about 2 tablespoons of citric acid (obtainable from home brewery suppliers, some drug stores, and over the counter sales at scientific supply stores like Thermo-Fisher) in a quart of tap water in a non-metallic container. Drop the rusty items into the container. Wait 4-12 hours, depending on how rusty the items were. Remove them from the container, and thouroughly rinse in tap water. That's it - dirt simple.

"PS Who says it's a bad idea to test a 9V on the tongue?! I've done it lots of times and the effects are barely notithable! :D "

Hmmm - I'm not touching that one!

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

a little internet researching shows the stuff to be something more than a couple of cheap ingredients cobbled in an expensive package as are an awful lot of products like WD-40 and it's ilk.

Apparentlythey have a synthetic compound that chelates the iron into solution and separates the iron from the oxygen taking the rust apart at the molecular level.

Here is a chemical chart for how it works:
101372

I found here: http://www.orisonllc.com/corrosion/evaporust/evapo-rust.html

[Douglas Brummett]

Following up on this. Both planes cleaned up nicely. Once I stripped the japanning off rust spots were there, hiding under what appeared to be intact finish. So if you were to do this process on a plane with higher japanning coverage you could still have active rust under the japanning that would eventually cause it to peel.

If you notice in the previous images a dull gray color. That is something like a parkerize or etch. It is part of the process and according to the directions if you air dry the parts it can protect from rust for up to 2wk. Of course you will need to buff it off if you want your plane to have pretty polished metal. This is a nice feature, unlike electrolysis where flash rusting is an issue with the treated metal.

[David Martino]

I've done quite a bit of this - here's the short directions: Dissolve about 2 tablespoons of citric acid (obtainable from home brewery suppliers, some drug stores, and over the counter sales at scientific supply stores like Thermo-Fisher) in a quart of tap water in a non-metallic container. Drop the rusty items into the container. Wait 4-12 hours, depending on how rusty the items were. Remove them from the container, and thouroughly rinse in tap water. That's it - dirt simple.

Thanks, think I'll try it some time.

-Dave M

[David Keller NC]

FYI - The citric acid process will leave a surface very similar to what Douglas describes for Evapo-rust, you will have to lap/buff to get a new-looking surface.

[Steven Mark Burgin]

I have used evapo-rust and electrolysis. If you need to remove paint or japanning along with the rust I use electrolysis. If you just want to remove rust from chrome or nickle-plated items or items with alot of original japaning left I use evapo-rust it works awesome. I do however get on chisels or plane blades a flat grey film on the part of the blade that has been hardened it is very distinct. Was wondering if some one with metallurgy or chemical experience could explain and maybe tell me if I,m damaging the hardened edge. Thanks

[David Keller NC]

Steven - I've a chemical engineering degree (PhD), but I don't have an authoritative answer to your question as I work in the biotech field. However, based on some knowledge of the chemistry of steel and alloys I'm going to suggest that what's happening is a combination of etching and removal of some of the iron from the steel surface.

Acids are used to do something called "passivation" to stainless steels in the medical industry. If you expose a new or newly-heated and welded SS surface to corrosive materials (like salt water, some buffer solutions, and certain acids), it will rust and pit. This happens even with 316 SS. To prevent that, newly-commissioned piping systems made of SS are "passivated" by exposing them to dilute phosphoric acid or citric acid and air. The dilute acid removes the iron from the very surface of the steel - the passivation layer is only a few tens of atoms thick.

The remaining surface is depleted of iron, and contains a higher percentage of chromium, nickel, and carbon. I've done this in a lab - the appearance after the procedure is a matte gray, though a bit lighter color than when I've taken rusty tools out of a citric acid solution.

[Douglas Brummett]

Here is what the plane ended up coming out like. I think it spent a total of about 24hr in the drink, but the time is pretty much irrelevant since once the rust is consumed nothing much happens.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=101510&d=1227191189

Here is a little more before and after in my blog:
http://rollinglifestyle.blogspot.com/2008/11/working-on-planes.html

thanks for coming along on this project :)

[Bob Vallaster]

Douglas, thanks for the show-n-tell.
You've motivated me to go to work on 3 planes I've had in deep storage for years.

BobV