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Cliff Rohrabacher
11-15-2008, 10:35 PM
Bagels and Lox - my way


Salmon: absolutely fresh if you can get it frozen on the boat if you can’t get fresh.
Silver salmon if you can get it.

20% – 50% Brown sugar to salt – lots and lots of salt. About 1” coating all sides
I used brown sugar.
Pepper , dill, & garlic.

Bury the salmon fillet in salt herb mix wrap it in poly wrap and set covered under a weight (a few pounds) for three days in the fridge. Worry not O clean one, our ancestors did this and buried it in the dirt for a week. We have fridges.

Make your bagels the morning of, or night before the unveiling of the lox:

Use: high-gluten flour, yeast, water, salt, and malt (that’s it).




1 1/2 cups warm water for yeast proof. I add sugar to the water to push the yeast.
Two packets of yeast
4 cups flour
2 tablespoons malt syrup
2 tablespoons non-iodized salt
4 teaspoons sugar




Egg wash: 1 egg white & a teaspoon of water
Sesame seeds & poppy seeds,


Proof the yeast.

Mix flour, malt syrup, salt, and sugar & yeast. Knead well however you please
Idealy dough wants to be tacky but not like glue and not stiff or dry.
Put in oiled bowl to proof up & cover. Let set 30min or so.

Set oven at 425Deg-F

Grease & sprinkle parchment paper with oats or cornflower

Bring large pot of water to full roiling boil.

Take proofed dough split into 3 – 4 ounce balls roll ‘em each in your palm and get a hole in the middle. (make a rope & join it).
Set ‘em to raise maybe 10 – 15 minutes.

Gently Get your hole back when ready to immerse in water.

Drop in boiling water for no more than 20 seconds per side – not a second more.

Brush the bagels all over with the egg wash & dip in poppy seeds, or sesame seeds
Set ‘em on the baking sheet l one inch apart or more
Bake at 450 for 20 – 30 minutes watch the color.
Set on rack for 30 minutes to cool and finish cooking.
minutes more. Remove from the oven and let cool on a rack for at least 30 minutes so the interiors finish cooking.

John Schreiber
11-15-2008, 11:55 PM
I haven't been this hungry since I read the description of how to make corned beef the other day. So many places sell things called bagels. So few places have the real thing. I've never even had lox that really deserved respect.

Ben Franz
11-16-2008, 12:22 AM
Cliff-

I think you just destroyed the low-carb ethic LOML and I have been on lately.

I got into breads a few years ago and when the local grocery changed bakeries I started making bagels. The new bakery supplied bread doughnuts (almost as bad as Lender's) so it was a matter of survival. Homemade sren't quite up to NYC level but pretty close. I use instant yeast (no proofing) and malt powder from a home brew supply store.

I've made gravlax a few times - a lot like your lox but no brown sugar and a lot of citrus rind.

Have to go eat some celery now (arghhh!).

Ben Rafael
11-16-2008, 9:12 AM
So many places sell things called bagels. So few places have the real thing.

The real thing is actually more of a pretzel like those large soft pretzels, except round without those criss crosses.
Somewhere along the way people in the US started making them the way you see them here today.

BTW, Anybody put mayo on their lox and bagel? Sacrilege!

Brent Smith
11-16-2008, 9:58 AM
I haven't been this hungry since I read the description of how to make corned beef the other day. So many places sell things called bagels. So few places have the real thing. I've never even had lox that really deserved respect.

I'll say it again........Montreal is the place to be for REAL Deli !!!!!!!!! :D

Ben Rafael
11-16-2008, 11:01 AM
Montreal is known for bagels?

Brent Smith
11-16-2008, 1:08 PM
Montreal is known for bagels?

Hi Ben,

In taste test after taste test, Montreal has beaten out all comers for bagels and for smoked meat (a cousin to corned beef). We have one of the largest Jewish populations in North America and the food came with them. Do a Google search for bagels and see how many of the entries on the first page are Montreal related.

Glen Gunderson
11-16-2008, 1:40 PM
Hi Ben,

In taste test after taste test, Montreal has beaten out all comers for bagels and for smoked meat (a cousin to corned beef). We have one of the largest Jewish populations in North America and the food came with them. Do a Google search for bagels and see how many of the entries on the first page are Montreal related.

Google search results are based on your location as determined by your IP address. So someone in Montreal, or anywhere in Canada, will get a lot of hits about Montreal bagels on their first page. Someone in the USA will get more results relating to New York bagels.

Jerome Hanby
11-16-2008, 1:43 PM
LOX always gave me way too violent oxidation, I ended up having to have bits of bagel surgically removed. I got best the best results with a slow gaseous O2 feed. Never understood the need to toast bagels so rapidly. Maybe it akin to Ruth Chris searing steaks at 1600 degrees....

Ben Rafael
11-16-2008, 2:35 PM
LOX always gave me way too violent oxidation, I ended up having to have bits of bagel surgically removed. I got best the best results with a slow gaseous O2 feed. Never understood the need to toast bagels so rapidly. Maybe it akin to Ruth Chris searing steaks at 1600 degrees....

Maybe you dont change your LOX often enough?

Brent Smith
11-16-2008, 3:57 PM
Google search results are based on your location as determined by your IP address. So someone in Montreal, or anywhere in Canada, will get a lot of hits about Montreal bagels on their first page. Someone in the USA will get more results relating to New York bagels.

See, I learn something every day :o. I do know that if you check Wikipedia they have an entry for Montreal bagels, but not for New York bagels ;).

Cliff Rohrabacher
11-16-2008, 8:32 PM
I plan on building a chilled smoker. All I need is to clean & convert the components of an old window air conditioner that I wrapped and stored in the cellar when I HVAC'd the house. I've seen smokers that use a length of alum dryer hose for radiant cooling of the smoke but, I think if I cool it to refrigerator temps it'll work out better and I can smoke it deeper.

jeremy levine
11-17-2008, 8:40 AM
Sounds great, I get my lox locally smoked and my Bagels well I am lucky enough to live close to NYC. But If I had the time I would give your way a try.

Many wonderful mornings ( afternoons and even evening ) have included.

- Bagels
- Lox
- Cream Cheese
- black pepper
- tomato
- red onion.