Quick report from Berea

[John Dykes]

Few thoughts -

Seeing Michel Auriou hand stitch rasps was certainly a treat. He has an interesting contraption that holds the metal blank down by leather straps. He starts at one corner w/ a "punch" and works up diagonally along the blank at 45ish degrees. Would like to buy one, but would have no idea on how to use it....

I'm the quiet type that doesn't yack it up much with the leaders of this craft, but I'll tell you - Rob Lee is genuine. He does care. A bit strange in this age....

I'd give my right arm to work under Frank Klausz. He's one... blunt fellow. "You can't pay me enough to put plywood in my house! You build a birdhouse out of plywood, a bird won't live it it! I give you tirty dollars right here to buy real wood!!"

But I tell you who struck me, a fella I've not heard of before - Don Weber. He has the hands of a craftsman, and a heart of a teacher. If I thought I ever could be talented enough to make chairs, I'd learn from him. Amazing man.

Lastly, Mike W. - clad in overalls and a never ending grin - is just one of those guys who'd mow your grass if you were laid up, or give the shirt off of his back. He's just one of those guys. Kinda guy to trust your kids to.

Yet something struck me today... and perhaps because I'm such a hack. We are so tool focused. Tools, tools, tools. Reviews, specs, tolerances. Magazines, blogs, boards - all tools. And so little technique, so little application. Do we focus on the tools in a way to pretend we are better at technique?

Eh - self condemnation only... just a thought.

With warm regards from Lex, KY.

- jbd in Denver

[Jim Koepke]

John,
Interesting observations and comments.
I had similar feelings when attending a tool show in Oakland CA.

It was my thought that these folks are a lot like my father. He did not like the idea of working for someone else and not being able to be the talented and friendly person he was. So he started his own business.

In a way, it seems these folks wanted to work for honest enterprises and not being able to find any to their liking, started their own.

We are fortunate to have such a friendly industry to supply us with our needs to pursue our enjoyment.

jim

[Michael Faurot]

Yet something struck me today... and perhaps because I'm such a hack. We are so tool focused. Tools, tools, tools. Reviews, specs, tolerances. Magazines, blogs, boards - all tools.


I've had similar thoughts myself. What's the fascination with tools versus working wood? Ultimately I just gave in to the dark side of my nature and accepted the fact that I like tools. I like looking at the catalogs, I like talking about them, I like making them and most of all I like using them to make things. For me at least, there is no woodworking with out the tools.

[Bill Satko]

Few thoughts -


Lastly, Mike W. - clad in overalls and a never ending grin - is just one of those guys who'd mow your grass if you were laid up, or give the shirt off of his back. He's just one of those guys. Kinda guy to trust your kids to.



John, I can confirm your impressions of Mike W. I took a sharpening class (chisels and plane blades) from him at the Portland Woodcraft store a couple years back. This was when he was first getting his business going and actually had the time to do something like this. He impressed me as being a very unpretentious person with a great deal of knowledge.

[Wilbur Pan]

Yet something struck me today... and perhaps because I'm such a hack. We are so tool focused. Tools, tools, tools. Reviews, specs, tolerances. Magazines, blogs, boards - all tools. And so little technique, so little application. Do we focus on the tools in a way to pretend we are better at technique?

Before I might have agreed. Now, my answer is an emphatic "No".

There was an interesting comment that I heard at the Furniture Design session at the end of WIA. Basically, tools serve many purposes. They help us work wood, which is the most important thing, of course. But a secondary purpose that tools serve is to make us feel good about being in our shop, simply by being aesthetically pleasing, which can serve as a source for inspiration for our projects.

So go ahead and get that infill plane! Even if you find that it doesn't leave a surface that is any better than a tuned up Bailey eBay special, if it will make you feel good having it, that's all the justification you need.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Do we focus on the tools in a way to pretend we are better at technique?

John,
Let me premise this by saying that I am not picking on modern tool manufacturers as I own several higher end modern tools and I am glad that these folks are around to keep the interest in hand tools and their virtues alive. Without the modern manufacturers, the vintage market wouldn't be as good as it is today either and in addition, events like WIA wouldn't be possible without their sponsorship.

With the disclaimer out of the way, I think the focus on tools has a lot to do with the nature of the craft for most folks today and the ability of good marketing departments. What I mean is that the vast majority of people working wood today are hobbiests, weekend warriors, what have you. Most are self taught as opposed to the days of the apprenticeship program. One of the first skills an apprentice would learn was how to sharpen and tune his (or more likely his master's) tools before he ever touched a piece of timber. The problem today is that most people have no one to teach them how to do this. This leads to recommendations from other frustrated self taught weekend warriors to just go and buy the expensive, premium, aircraft grade super tuned thing-a-ma-gig because all you need to do is open the box and put it to work.

Modern day tool manufacturers have capitalized on the fact that people are willing to spend big bucks for a tool that is already tuned up (and pretty to boot) and have manufactured them this way and marketed to those people very effectively. It's very easy to convince someone frustrated with tuning an old clunker (or with few tool choices to begin with) that a new tool is better when it's already tuned up. Come use my $1 wooden try plane and I may be able to convince you that vintage woodies are way better than those vintage metal planes ;). In reality, it doesn't matter whether you prefer vintage wood, vintage metal or new (wood or metal). A properly tuned tool will outperform an untuned (is that a word :)) tool every time. However, the weekend warrior doesn't have time to constantly futz with tools, there's hardly enough time to build stuff with them.

A good example of this is saws. I'm not picking on modern day saw makers as I have made two myself now and I certainly couldn't make my living doing it like these folks do. Personally, I would gladly spend the money on Mike W's Kenyon tenon saw if I had it at the moment because these simply aren't available on the used market. But the modern saws aren't all that much better than a properly cleaned, sharpened and tuned vintage saw. The difference is, the process of sharpening, setting and tuning has already been done by a skilled hand. I'm sure a vintage saw cleaned, sharpened, set and tuned by one of these shops would perform the same as one of their new saws. It may not be as pretty though :D.

Advertising is a powerful thing, in all markets, not just hand tools. Show a master build a masterpiece with top of the line tools and as a result, sell more of those tools. There's a reason Delta is probably the best selling stationary machinery, even though the logo was always covered up in a very famous woodworking program on PBS. They knew what they were doing when they sponsored the show. The fact is though that a master could build the same masterpiece with far inferior tools. That is what makes them a true master.

My point is (finally) that I think a lot of people are enamored with tools, and especially high priced premium tools, because they think (perhaps even subconsciously) that a better tool will make them do better work. Others just like tools, and good for them. All of these folks keep our beloved tool makers in business so they can provide us with their wares. However, as you alluded to in your question, it's not the tools that make the craftsman, it's the craftsman that makes the tools.

[Hank Knight]

One of the interesting themes that came out of the WIA program came from the tool makers. All of them, from TLN to Rob Lee, were actively soliciting input from all the woodworkers there about what they did and didn't like about the tools. It gave everyone an opportunity to have some input into what the toolmakers think about the tools they make and sell. I heard Rob Lee say at least a half dozen times that our imput is what feeds his business. If he can make tools we like and will use, his business will continue to thrive [or something to that effect]. And others said the same thing. I thought this was one of the high spots of the whole WIA conference, and I think we will see the fruits of this conference in the products that are developed in the future. So, for all of us tool nuts, this was our day in the sun.

Hank

[mike holden]

Hank,
You are spot on regarding the tool makers listening to us. I stopped at the Clark & Williams booth, and Larry Williams read my nametag, and said: "you post as mbholden, dont you?" It amazed me that he paid attention closely enough to tie my name to my "handle" even though it was nowhere on the name tag. ( I use mbholden on most of the forums I frequent)
Mike

[Zahid Naqvi]

John, thanks for the update. I'd love to go to one of these one day, but they are almost always just beyond reach. Then again I have not even visited with C&W who are in-state, so I guess it's just my laziness.

[Dave Jeske]

John,
I'm sure a vintage saw cleaned, sharpened, set and tuned by one of these shops would perform the same as one of their new saws. It may not be as pretty though :D.


One of the many fun parts of the conference for me (since I could not easily attend the talks) was a quick informal DT saw shoot-out at Adam's bench. Adam had a number of different new dovetail saws set out to test and asked which one we thought was "best". I happened to have brought my antique Groves DT saw to the conference. It had been sharpened by an experienced saw sharpener years ago but is just getting a bit dull now. I tried out all of the saws and then picked up mine and gave it a try. Even a bit dull, it cut like a dream and I still love it. It is not pretty but it is special. However, my beautiful Mike Wenzloff African Blackwood handled DT saw also cuts like a dream and it gives me tingles every time I pick it up. I have not seen a more beautiful saw. I confess, I am just a tool junkie. Quality is what is important; old or new.
Dave Jeske
Blue Spruce Toolworks, LLC

[John Dykes]

Well... I think it struck me when my wife picked me up at the airport this afternoon in Denver. She asked me, "How was it? Was it worth it?" My first thought was - "Not really." But I didn't want to be griped at for spending so much money on it.

On the plane, I wrote 4 pages of thoughts - class by class - but that was more to pass the time than to post. I'll try to summarize.

I was excited and hopeful to attend, perhaps my expectations were too high, or perhaps misguided. I happily paid my money thinking it would be 3 days of experts applying tools to wood. I would observe and see technique. Very little of that.

Most of my sessions could have been presented more efficiently and for less cost in a magazine:

- Modern tool tolerances
- Western Saws
- Western Chisels
- Hand tool shop (Cherubini handed out his recent Pop Woodworking article and went through it for 2 hours)
- Setup and use of Japanese chisels (Use? A chisel never touched wood).

I kind of gave up on my schedule and crashed all of Frank Klausz's sessions. He was using tools in his and seemed to want to teach what he was doing. Though the basic dovetailing class was the same as the dovetailing casework class.

In short, no - if I had it to do over, I wouldn't have gone... Please don't take my guild card away.

So to be fair, here's my 2 cents to make it better. I can't afford training, or classes, or short courses with David Charlesworth. To learn, I read - and try - and read - and try - and read - and try. I come to you, and ask - and read some more. Fellas - that's a tough way to learn. I've already read about modern plane tolerances, I've already read about tpi and fleam, I've already read about what a western chisel looks like, I've already read Adam's workshop article, I've read how to sharpen a chisel (Japanese or otherwise)...

WIA got some of the best minds and talent in the world of hand tools - and gave me very little.

Don't tell me about modern tool tolerances once again, I've read about it. SHOW me what that means. Apply it to wood - and not just a basic application, something interesting. Show me the effect of tolerances. Show me a unique operation.

Was there even a saw at the saw discussion? We can read about that... You have Mike W - THE premier saw maker and THINKER. Give him some saws, give him some wood - give him a scenario. Let me learn by watching a master of the saw. I'd give my eye teeth to watch and learn from Mike W for two hours....

Same with Adam C. Don't show me several inventories of tool chests from 1780. Adam is one of the greatest of our time. Let me see his hands and see him work through problems with a chisel. No reflection on Adam, perhaps one of the best presenters there....

The hand tool shop - hmmm. Not even sure where they could have taken that one. Please don't give me an article to a magazine I already bought...

Japanese Chisel setup and use was just as disappointing. The chisel was never used...

Positives? The opposite of above.
Frank Klausz - the master - teaching with his hands, explaining with his words.
Mike Dunbar - the master - teaching with his hands, explaining with his words.
Don Weber - only had a booth. But taught - for hour, after hour, after hour. With his hands, with his words - showing all comers what he was doing. That is what I paid for!

No, I was too late to get any workshops, but you don't need a workshop to teach. I watch DVDs over and over and over - picking up any nugget I can. This would have been a great opportunity for a similar experience. Again - Mike W on sawing technique, application, and problem solving in pseudo DVD format while fielding questions from the group.

The logistics were very well done. The sessions were lacking... Eh - few other issues, but I've probably dug a deep enough pit. All in all - not what I was hoping for...

Respectfully,
jbd back in Denver

[John Dykes]

Which reminds me, if someone is looking to buy the LN bench chisels - don't. If you are seriously considering that range of chisel - you owe it to yourself to look at the new Blue Spruce line. Very well could be the finest hand tool I've held \ used. I didn't see them on the website, but they're worth asking about....

- jbd in Denver

[Greg Salata]

Which reminds me, if someone is looking to buy the LN bench chisels - don't. If you are seriously considering that range of chisel - you owe it to yourself to look at the new Blue Spruce line. Very well could be the finest hand tool I've held \ used. I didn't see them on the website, but they're worth asking about....

- jbd in Denver

On this point I agree with you completely.
They are beautiful chisels.

[Alan DuBoff]

I think John gives a realistic view of a conference like WIA, but it would seem the press and folks running the conference did a fair amount to build expectations.

It seems to me that going somewhere like Mehr, Rogowski, Boggs, or similar would be time well spent to take a week long class that you could have hands on instruction, as you point out as something lacking some John, to immerse ones self in.

For that matter, a friend was telling me recently that he took some classes at one of the local colleges that Jay Van Arsdale teaches for $42 for ~10 classes. Jay is one of the authorities in Japanese Joinery, Shoji, has authored a couple books, has taught for about 20+ years...anyone in the Bay area should consider taking Jay's classes, I believe at Lane Community College.

Speaking for myself, I like to take vacation and just spend it at home working on something. Probably gonna be doing just that soon with the holidays coming up.

You say you learn by reading John, but sometimes it really helps to try and apply all that you've read, otherwise one will never gain the actual skill. You can do it in your own shop. This is not to imply that you are the only one with this armchair dilemma, I think it's common and especially with the internet, and I know I've fallen into it from time to time...

I 'spose one of the attractions of meeting people face to face is that we collaborate with one another a lot and never see each other. We miss a dimension...and so does your woodworking if you only read about it. At least I know that mine does...from time to time.

I didn't get to go to WIA, but I did get to spend some time in the garage making a slotting fixture for my mill, to slot handsaw backs. Maybe I'll post a thread on making handsaws, part II...:rolleyes:

[Jack Camillo]

JBD,
Thanks for giving your honest read-out. Regarding with your wife when you didn't want to get griped at for spending so much, you know you don't have to worry about that here. I didn't get to go - the straw that broke the camel's back was the distance from any working airport to the location, which would have necessitated a rental car on top of everything else. Maybe it's good I drew the line. Would have liked to meet Rob Lee and Mike Wenzloff, for example, but I think I knew the classes would potentially be disappointing for more experienced woodworkers looking to reach the next level, whatever that might be. Though I'm sure I would have learned something, not sure it would have been worth the travel expense.

[Louis Bois]

Which reminds me, if someone is looking to buy the LN bench chisels - don't. If you are seriously considering that range of chisel - you owe it to yourself to look at the new Blue Spruce line. Very well could be the finest hand tool I've held \ used. I didn't see them on the website, but they're worth asking about....

- jbd in Denver

I totally agree John...his display set followed me home!!;)

[Robert Rozaieski]

Thanks for the honest report John! Don't think you're digging yourself a pit. In my opinion, this is exactly the kind of feedback that fellow woodworkers and event organizers alike need to hear. I'm in your camp. If I'm going to spend money on something like this, I want to get something out of it. I'm finding the same with my magazine subscriptions recently. The only article I seem to read anymore is Adam's column in PW. I could care less about an article on how to set up a plane or spokeshave or sharpen. These things have been printed and discussed so many times I could practically recite the article before ever opening the magazine. PW is the only mag I still have a subscription to and I'm at the point of letting that subscription expire as well.

I don't got to the woodworking expos (and stopped going to the outdoor expos for hunting/fishing) for this very reason. Most of them are places for vendors to push their wares. You get very little instruction at all anymore. Anyone out there who fishes and has been to a show and watched the bass tank demonstration knows exactly what I mean. It is hyped as a technique seminar and ends up with a tackle company rep using only one or two baits that his company manufactures and basically performing a live infomercial. I have better things to do with my time.

I've toyed with the idea of putting something together for my blog that would be more along the lines of what you are looking for. Sort of a very brief overview of the tools to be used on the project, a brief demonstration on how to set them up and tune them but then an in depth on how to use them to actually build something. Similar to my post from a few months ago on the wall cabinet I made for my shop using only hand tools. I just wasn't sure how much interest there would be. I haven't done anything to date as I have a couple big projects that are taking all my time right now but I may do something yet. I would like to do it in video format though rather than written word so I could actually show some of the techniques I use. I just don't want it to be too complicated or too simple. I may put something together yet.

[John Dykes]

Robert,

Your "Let's build a project" is a perfect example of what I was hoping to see. Let's build a project with Frank, with Mike W, with Mike Dunbar, with Adam C, etc.

To be fair, I did enjoy each session - Frank Klausz is my new hero. But it was reading a magazine article type of enjoyment, not watching a DVD of craftsmanship (Dunbar, Klausz excluded).

It was the first go 'round, they did well, and it was great to see the response - but I earnestly believe they need to bring more next time.... We'll consider this the "open beta test."

- jbd in Denver

[mike holden]

John,
My experience was *very* different from yours. The conference exceeded *my* expectations greatly!
Adam Cherubini spent a great deal of time demonstrating the use of chisels - cutting a groove, a rabbet, and a mortise all while demonstrating grip and stance and discussing what made a good chisel. The fact that you cant currently *buy* a chisel such as Adam discussed is beside the fact.
The only "hands-on" seminar I got into was the saw sharpening run by Mike Wenzloff. We got good basic instruction and a chance to try out sharpening on a blank. Of course, the fact that all the students got a Wenzloff saw kit, a panel saw (I think - havent got it home yet to look at it) with a special etching certainly made it that much more special.
I was in the Japanese saw which had demos and saws passed round, and invitations to use.
The spokeshave and drawknife with Mike Dunbar was a demo up on a stage, but reasonably well video'd and projected (this was the anti-LN bench demo in my mind, the face vise would not hold the wood Mike used securely)
Adv dovetailing with Frank Klausz was nice, best part was seeing someone make a secret dovetail joint.
The Western Saw with Joel Moscowitz, Mike Wenzloff, and Chris Schwarz was a typical conference discussion, and there were saws there - Adam Cherubini's! I enjoyed hearing the differing opinions regarded what was important to these people in saw design.
Sharpening curved edges with Mike Dunbar was okay, but it was just scary sharp around dowels. Big tidbit I got there was that with sandpaper, never run the paper across the edge, only along it.
Infill roundtable with Konrad Sauer, Ron Brese, Jim Leamy, and Robin Lee. When you can get a high end planemaker, a planemaker shooting for the upper midrange, a reproduction specialist, and a manufacturer together to talk about their specialties - what more can you ask for?
Joinery Planes with Frank Klausz. Knew going in that Frank does not believe in shoulder planes, but watching him run a sliding dovetail with handtools was great. The water proofing joint was old hat from his videos, and LN should NOT have loaned him the prototype match plane. It did not work since the blade was narrower than the skate.
Tolerances and myths - probably the least productive. But the comment John Economaki made regarding his jointmaker, and I paraphrase " it may not be for you, but my clients with Parkinsons disease, or my blind clients, what do you think it is worth to them?"

And with that point I have to say, I enjoyed the conference greatly, but everyone has their own expectations.

John, be sure to let Chris Schwarz know of your disappointment so that he can do something about it next time.
Mike

[Joe Cunningham]

I've toyed with the idea of putting something together for my blog that would be more along the lines of what you are looking for. Sort of a very brief overview of the tools to be used on the project, a brief demonstration on how to set them up and tune them but then an in depth on how to use them to actually build something. Similar to my post from a few months ago on the wall cabinet I made for my shop using only hand tools.

I'd read that for sure. So far your project report on the wall cabinet has been the single most useful thread on this website for me. I used it as a template for my own shop cabinet project to house my planes (with a few alterations).

I find Woodworking magazine to be good in that respect where they take a project and really break it down into its constituent steps, often broadening the application of some of those steps to apply to other future projects.

[Dave Jeske]

I will try to get them up on the website this week. My office assistant is coming in today to help me clean up any mess I may have made in QuickBooks during the show. I am better at making tools than keeping books:eek:. I am really excited about the new bench chisels, it is sort of like wanting to show off your new baby!
dave

[D.McDonnel "Mac"]

I am really excited about the new bench chisels, it is sort of like wanting to show off your new baby!
dave

What Dave is not telling you is that Frank Klausz bought a set of his paring chisels. He said they were beautiful to look at, wonderful design and reasonably priced ............... but he asked for a discount anyway!!

Congrat's Dave!


Mac

[Dave Jeske]

What Dave is not telling you is that Frank Klausz bought a set of his paring chisels. He said they were beautiful to look at, wonderful design and reasonably priced ............... but he asked for a discount anyway!!

One of the highlights for me was meeting Frank. He is a funny guy. When he asked what type of show discount I was giving I said "how about a free tee-Shirt?" He looked right into my eyes and said very matter of fact, "I don't want your tee-shirt". Oh, okay.

I hope I can meet him again at another show and take in some demonstrations.

Dave

[whit richardson]

I'll throw in on the conference reviews coming in the middle sort of...

First I'm beginner to intermediate in basic woodworking skills. I have some not all the good power tools, table saw and miter saw for now. Then I have some hand tools, ebay Stanley's some sweet, some sour, crappy chisels and now two nicer ones, a few nice saws and one to make now. Anyway once I decided to do this event I was hitting refreshing on the website at midnight of June whatever day they said registration would start. Doing that I was able to sign up for every hands on class I could get as I expected they would fill fast which they did. I did the grinding, sharpening, old tool rehab (NOT), Plane, Old school chisel, saw sharpening etc.

I’m skipping the blow by blow to say first and MOST importantly the folks at Popwood worked very hard to make this happen and overall it was fun, great to meet so many other woodworking guys (and a few gals), meeting and getting a chance to really talk (mostly listen) to master craftsmen like Frank Klausz and Adam Cherubini without a crowd of 50 to 100 standing around too. For the money it was a good experience for me (remember I’m beginner to …?).

I would have to say that if you are now building furniture that looks good, joints fit, people oohh and aaaahh at it then this would have been a disappointing experience.

The rough points for the hands on:

Just because you are an expert doesn’t mean you can teach it. Also it doesn’t mean you are even intelligible.

Showing someone how to plane and then say take this piece of wood and plane it, is not teaching. Yet I did get some pointers from Mike Dunbar personally.

There were not enough experts on hand to really oversee what people were doing during the hands on sessions.

They didn’t plan for people like me showing up with brand new Marples chisels with no extra sharpening on them for trying to make shavings.

Show and tell is not rehabbing old tools.

What was missing in the hands on was setting up base terms and concepts to be covered during the session. Setting expectations, explaining common concepts and terms before starting something new is essential to making sure everyone is on the same page.

So yes there were rough spots here and there, like the Meet and Greet was a total waste of money and time but overall it was worth it to me. The staff were really great people and most of the vendors did as much if not more teaching than in some of the classes. The fellowship was really nice. Since the event was small you kept bumping into the same folks which allowed us more out going people to share some lunch, dinner, coffee and tales of shops, wood and tools.

[Mike Henderson]

Which reminds me, if someone is looking to buy the LN bench chisels - don't. If you are seriously considering that range of chisel - you owe it to yourself to look at the new Blue Spruce line. Very well could be the finest hand tool I've held \ used. I didn't see them on the website, but they're worth asking about....

- jbd in Denver
John (and anyone else who would like to comment) - would you mind explaining why you liked the Blue Spruce over the LN chisels? Was it the ergonomics or was it the steel (sharper, holds an edge longer, etc.). Or was it just the looks of the chisels?

Mike

[Alan DuBoff]

Mike,

I only have 2 fishtail chisels from Blue Spruce, but they just feel wonderful. Up until now, Dave has made mostly paring chisels, so these bench chisels are new.

The handles just feel so nice, mine are African Blackwood. I have a 1:6 and a 1:8 fishtail for dovetail cleanup. Recently I use Japanese chisels mostly for bench work, but they are not for everyone and some complain the handles are too small. That is why I like them.

I'm attaching a pic of my 2 paring chisels.

[Mike Henderson]

Alan - for anyone who can turn, they can make handles for most chisels. They can experiment with the shape of the handle and with different types of wood. Someone could even take a Blue Spruce chisel and duplicate the shape and size of the handle.

So there must be more to it than that. I sometimes wonder if the high price lends a "halo effect" to the product - if it's that expensive, it must be good.

So let me ask my question a different way. If someone took an LN chisel and made a new handle for it that was perfect for their hand, would that person still prefer the Blue Spruce chisel? Is there something besides the handle that makes the Blue Spruce chisel "better"?

Mike

[John Dykes]

Sure Mike -

Let me say first that I own the basic LN set, as well as some assorted Blue Spruce chisels - as well as a new, very fine, 1" Tasai paring chisel. It's hard for me to discuss "sharpness" across my chisels as they are configured and used for different purposes.

Again, trying to set some perspective from what I have and use. I would say the Blue Spruce and Tasai are similar on sharpness and edge holding - but the Blue Spruce are smaller and seem to cut with much more precision. They seem finer - and that I can indeed get them sharper. But again, this may be a bit unfair in that the Tasai is a wider chisel.

The LNs are good chisels and seem to hold an edge quite well. I've been very happy with them ('specially after upgrading from those God awful Hirsch). I use them as bench chisels and tap them with hammers more often than not.

When I saw the Blue Spruce bench chisels, I didn't know they were bench chisels. I passed by them several times and had assumed such an elegant design was a fine paring chisel. When I heard Dave say, "These are my new bench chisels," I did a double-take and then began to really look at them. The design of the blade seems to be substantial, but - elegantly trim. The handles are a bit longer and very comfortable (more than any bench chisel I've picked up) The LNs now seem ... fat and stubby.

From what I think I heard, there is only one handle wood choice - looked like tiger maple (which, for me, was a bit "bright" for a bench chisel, but there's a reason...). It's gone through a process where it's been injected with a polymer in a vacuum for toughness. It's the only wood you can inject in this manner. (I'm sure you can ask Dave to clarify where I've gone wrong on this!) But I'll tell you one thing, I've never beat my chisels the way that Dave beat on these. I came back several times and tried some finer paring on the chisel that was being beat on (and you couldn't tell it was ever hit with anything); it cut like a fine paring chisel.... The best way I can describe it, it's having a fine paring chisel that you can use to chop out dovetail waste - if that makes sense.

I spent a good amount of time through the weekend, passing by, listening, trying them. I'm strongly considering selling off my LNs to get a few.

So in short - are they nice looking? Eh, yes, I suppose- I wasn't overly taken with the tiger maple'ish handles, but the shape and function of the handle and steel seem to be perfectly married in an elegant design.

The steel and sharpness? It's hard to say. My Blue Spruce are my favorite chisels at home. I pared a good bit of wood on these bench chisels over a few days, and they seemed just like the ones at home. I can't really say about sharpeness; they seemed freshly honed each time I used them - but I expect Dave kept them sharp.

Again, think of a paring chisel that can be used as a bench chisel...

- jbd in Denver

[whit richardson]

Now if you subscribe to Adam Cherubini's use of body mechanics for using the chisel you may want to consider how the handle feels in your shoulder.

[John Dykes]

Mike, I hear what you are saying - and know where you are going.

Firstly, I've never tried turning; though I'd love to learn. Would I like to have new handles on my LNs? You betcha. I hate them. Can I admit comfort of the handle is a draw to the Blue Spruce? Yea, I think so. Is it stupid to pick a chisel just due to comfort? Eh, perhaps - but for those who can't \ don't turn - not as much.

But it's more than that. I use a few Blue Spruce at home, and "something" about the design feels like a precision instrument. Could it be the handle? Partly, I'm sure. But the blade of the Blue Spruce is more like the Blue Spruce paring chisel than that of the LN blade.

As far as "Halo Effect" - again, I have a single Tasai chisel. Which would have a "halo effect" bigger than all my other chisels combined. It doesn't. If Blue Spruce made a large paring chisel, I would have bought it long ago - and saved myself a lot of money.

But yes, maybe I should learn to turn! Always wanted to try!

Respectfully,
- jbd in Denver

[Dave Jeske]

John (and anyone else who would like to comment) - would you mind explaining why you liked the Blue Spruce over the LN chisels? Was it the ergonomics or was it the steel (sharper, holds an edge longer, etc.). Or was it just the looks of the chisels?

Mike

Mike, If it is okay to reply, let me know and I will give a short explanation of the new chisels and what I was trying to accomplish. Otherwise I will have info on my site in a few days.
Dave

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, If it is okay to reply, let me know and I will give a short explanation of the new chisels and what I was trying to accomplish. Otherwise I will have info on my site in a few days.
Dave
As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to hear from you. Go ahead and post. If there's a problem, one of the mods will take some action.

Mike

Please note that I'm not throwing stones at Blue Spruce. In fact, I'm somewhat of a chisel nut - I have all kinds and ages. I just want to know why people like the Blue Spruce over other premium brands.

[George Beck]

I must say I had a great time in Berea. I did miss meeting some of you folks on Saturday Night as my wife was a bit down in the back from the HILLS. It was so great to see and use these wonderful tools and see them used by such masters like Frank and Adam. I agree with most here that there is really something special going on at Blue Spruce as these are just simply gorgeous chisels. They cut like surgical instruments it is amazing. I pared into a piece of maple and it felt like I was peeling a carrot. Mike Wenzloff makes wonderful saws! I kept going back to them. Gramercy Tools little dovetail saw is a very fine tool, different but equally nice. My high-point was talking at great lenght with Harrelson Stanley on Saturday morning. I purchased a beautiful Michio Tasai Mokume(woodgrain) plane and Jim Blauvelt offered to set it up and showed me how to shape the sole and tune it. I took a 6 foot see through shaving with my plane and I gotta tell ya that got me pretty stoked. Meeting Ron Hock who has been special to me for 25 years was touching. Everything Bridge City sells is great. John is a tool innovator. His JP pro is really a hoot. I love it! Lee Neilsen makes everything good. The only chisels I have ever purchased that are truly flat have been theirs. Well, I probably sound like an excited kid in a toy store and that pretty much is a fact. Here is my overall take. When I started woodworking back in the 70's you could not get really good tools. Many of us turned to Japanese tools because fine Japanese tools were available and western stuff was crap. These dedicated tool makers have changed all of that. Fine tools are available to us and I believe forums like this one continues to drive quality and expectations higher and that drives the craft higher. Our wonderful craft is alive and growing. These are great days.

George

[Brent Smith]

. I just want to know why people like the Blue Spruce over other premium brands.

Hi Mike,

My reasons, based on my experience with the DT chisels.....

Aside from the fact that IMO Dave got the balance and feel just right, it's the steel and shape of the blades. I have many sets of western chisels and these by far are the best at holding an edge. I find I can get them sharper easier and they stay that way longer. In this respect, they are more like some of my Japanese chisels than my other western chisels. The shape of the blades lend themselves to easy use. The flat at the top of the blades gives me a good finger positioning and the handles just seem to fit into my hands. The edges, being ground to almost razor sharpness, make cleaning Dts a breeze. I realize a lot of this is subjective, and other users may find differently, but for me these chisels couldn't be more comfortable to use if they had been custom made to fit my hands. Most other western chisels I have or have used, including LNs, have felt awkward or unbalanced in my hands. I think Dave got the balance between finesse and strength just right with these chisels and I'm looking forward to hopefully getting a shot at his bench chisels.

[Dave Jeske]

As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to hear from you. Go ahead and post. If there's a problem, one of the mods will take some action.

Mike,
I happen to be a chisel nut also. I have way more than I could ever really need (and not just my own:o) Many have commented on my dovetail chisels. They were designed as lighter weight, shorter blade versions of paring chisels. They are small and fit nicely into my hands. At Berea I gave a very short talk about handle design with Kevin Drake of Glen-Drake Tools. His portion of the talk was demonstrating turning your own tool handle and mine was more of the design thought process. I passed out numerous samples of vintage chisels with different designs for handles. I tried to get a couple of points across in a few minutes. One was there is no one "right" design for a handle. What is right is what feels best to you and how you like to work. I also tried to encourage everyone to experiment and turn handles. They are generally cheap and easy to make. They don't need to be as pretty as I try to make mine in order to work well. There are many older chisels out there that are high quality and would like to be put to good use with a nicely shaped handle.

So, from that standpoint, I try to design my chisels to be comfortable for most people. The small handles on my DT chisels are not for everyone so I offer two sizes of handle.

I have several odd bench chisels from various makers but do not have a "set" of anything. So when I designed the new bench chisels I decided to make my very own ultimate set of bench chisels; what would I want if I could have anything? Could I offer something other than the many chisels already on the market? I wanted a chisel that was well balanced and comfortable, not too heavy, high quality blade with thin edges so it could be used in various joinery including dovetails, good combination of edge holding and sharpness and overall VERY tough to last a lifetime of hard shop use. Oh, It had to be pretty too :o.

What I came up with was a blade made from carefully heat treated A-2 that is tapered from back to front and has large, beveled edges. This gives a very stiff blade with minimal weight. (It is much heavier duty than the DT paring chisels) The blade has a tang that runs deep into the handle for levering strength but also has a tapered socket with a bolster that takes the impact loading from mallet blows. The wood in the handle is hard maple which has been infused with an acrylic to fill all of the cellular structure of the wood. This makes for a very dense and tough handle that is virtually indestructable. It also polishes quite nicely. A few other woods lend themselves to the process but not all. I may experiment with other species but I am very pleased with the results of the maple. (My new mallet head also uses this process) I was hitting the 1/2" chisel at the show just as hard as I possible could given the circumstances and the handle never showed any signs of being hit. I would NEVER actually need to hit a chisel as hard as I was hitting it at the show. I also never once honed it at the show (except when I first got there when I realized I never had sharpened it!)

So, even if I never sell more than a few, I now have my ultimate set of bench chisels (and if I only sell a few they will be the worlds most expensive bench chisels). I am trying to price them reasonably and hope that others will give them a try. I hope I have not taken up too much space with my reply. Feel free to ask any questions I failed to answer.

[mike holden]

Mike Henderson,
Blue Spruce over LN - Adam Cherubini made a great case for thin bladed firmer style chisels as your bench chisels. I spoke briefly with Dave Jeske about making a set for me, they would have to be based on the original chisels, as the new ones are thicker (but not as thick as LN). It is a case of blade design rather than material. The originals with little or no bevel on the edges would approach Adam's. (see below)

101408

He also used these with a different grip, putting the blade between his fingers, so two were on top of the blade and two below. My LN's are uncomfortable to hold like this, Adam's arent.

Is this better? Adam thinks so, and I am willing to try his method to see if there is any advantage to me.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Dave - thanks for your posting. I'll check your web site to see how much the chisels are offered for. I'd like to get one to try it out and see for myself.

Mike

[Louis Bois]

Since there's a lot of interest in Dave's new chisels, I decided to post a few pics before I can get around to doing a formal review.

The photos below show the 1/2" chisel next to comparably sized offerings by other manufacturers, namely the Marples blue chip (with boxwood handle), the E.A. Berg socket chisel and a Witherby firmer.

You'll notice that the side land is substantially thinner along the full length of the new BST offering than any of the other brands, including the Berg which is considered quite thin by modern standards. I'll let the photos speak for themselves.

The fifth photo - chisels depicted from left to right: Marples, Berg, BS, Witherby.

[Louis Bois]

...a few more...

The two shown on edge are the Blue Spruce (left) and E.A. Berg (right).

[Adam Cherubini]

- Hand tool shop (Cherubini handed out his recent Pop Woodworking article and went through it for 2 hours)


I tried really hard to present new material. I passed out my article because I didn't want to repeat it. I also finished in about an hour, then talked about period tool chests for 15 minutes.

But I was nervous. There was no one there with less experience woodworking or speaking. PW's publisher was in the back of the room. I had practiced this presentation for months. I wanted to excuse anyone who wanted to bail. I have been in these positions where I wanted to bail on a speaker but was embarrassed or didn't want to embarrass the speaker. There were so many great things to see and do, I didn't want someone (turns out like you) sitting there wasting their time for my sake. I just forgot to mention it before I started. But then, I also forgot to remove my wireless microphone when I went to the bathroom so...



Same with Adam C. Don't show me several inventories of tool chests from 1780. Let me see his hands and see him work through problems with a chisel.

To be fair, I did this work in the marketplace, and I did this work in a clinic. You just missed it. In the marketplace, I had a hi-def video projector trained on an 8' screen so folks could see the details. I also had my own wireless sound system (which I didn't use). The problem was, the only time anyone came to see it was during their lunch breaks.

I go to a ww conference in Williamsburg each year. Though there's no hands on stuff, it's pretty great. But even there, you never know what you are going to learn. Some years I learn as much at the breakfast table from my fellow attendees as I do from the presenters. My feeling is that these conferences are a very cheap education. We seem to be more than willing to blow big money on tools we don't need or understand but have no budget for education. That's not good. I'm going to teach some classes next year, but I hope to take some as well. There's still so much to learn.

Adam

[Dave Jeske]

To be fair, I did this work in the marketplace

Adam, I had the good fortune to have my booth close to your spot so I could almost see your demonstrations. However, I wish I could have been right there to really see what you were doing. Similarly, I wish I could have talked more about chisel design and techniques with you. maybe next time. If you are ever in Portland (Oregon), let me know!

[Dan Evans]

John,

Your about the conference were good. You are very correct about Don Weber. I am very fortunate to live 20 miles from Berea and have visited with Don in his shop in Paint Lick,Ky which is 10 miles from Berea. he lives in Berea and his wife works at Berea College.

If you are interested in spending a weekend or week with Don he hold classes in his shop. At the conference he told me he was going to post his new 2009 schedule on his web site very soon.

Don is truely a jack of all trades. In addition to being a master chair maker, he is a master blacksmith and teaches classes in blacksmithing, he is a terrific woodworker in many different furniture styles. I believe he has an article appearing in Popular Woodworking about an Arts and Crafts Table. he also makes drawknives for Brian Boggs and Curtis Buchanan who take them to Latin America to teach the natives green woodworking.

I forget his web site address but you can google his name and find it. He is a very neat guy to work with.

Dan Evans

[Narayan Nayar]

Adam,

You did great. Really. I was fortunate to have picked pretty a pretty decent selection of sessions, but as I mentioned to you as you were packing up, the two of yours which I attended were my favorite. Furthermore, you were extremely gracious with your time and knowledge in the marketplace and in other settings (best Hindi I've heard in a long time!), even when confronted with onerous basswood (http://www.flickr.com/photos/etherfarm/3042122638/) :).

I very much look forward to you doing more of the speaking circuit in the future.

Dave,

Your new products look great and show great promise. I look forward to trying them out in my own shop.

[Alan DuBoff]

I go to a ww conference in Williamsburg each year. Though there's no hands on stuff, it's pretty great. But even there, you never know what you are going to learn.
I wonder if they'll be holding all their conferences this year, they just laid off 140 folks at Williamsburg, including the Toolmaker and Musical Instrument Maker (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1003382#post1003382) who had been with them for 39 years.

The economy is being felt at all levels.

[Alan DuBoff]

Alan - for anyone who can turn, they can make handles for most chisels. They can experiment with the shape of the handle and with different types of wood. Someone could even take a Blue Spruce chisel and duplicate the shape and size of the handle.
But that does not get the same tool, IMO. You can surely copy the shape and material of a tool, but so what?

I think you should buy one if your curious and find out for yourself, as you suggest later in another response.

So let me ask my question a different way. If someone took an LN chisel and made a new handle for it that was perfect for their hand, would that person still prefer the Blue Spruce chisel? Is there something besides the handle that makes the Blue Spruce chisel "better"
Not sure where you got the impression it's only the handle, I used that as one nice point of the chisels. If you doubt, go buy one and see. Make all the handles for your Stanley or other Chisels and if that makes you happy, go with it.

I have all the chisels I need at the moment, speaking for myself, and the 2 paring chisels I have which Dave made for me are wonderful. I don't see any value in me getting more chisels, the ones I have work just fine. But that has nothing to do with the quality of the tool that Dave makes. ;) To me they are not like a LN chisel with a different handle in them.:p

[John Dykes]

Adam -

Please don't take my words as a reflection of your ability to present the material. As I stated in my post, you were one of the best presenters. You and Klausz were the top two. Also as I stated, I enjoyed each presentation - including the handtool workshop presentation.

I've never been to a show, conference, or what not. I did take a series of hand tool classes at the local Woodcraft that was... poor. Again, my expectation may have been off about how these things work. I was hoping to watch these hand tool experts perform hand tool magic.... As I stated, you are one of the best of our time.... and I would have relished to see more of your work. I hope that is clear.

I'm not speaking out against your skill, your speaking\teaching ability, how you chose to present the material, or even your funny pants. I was dissatisfied with the format of the entire show.

Yes, if I could have watched a class structured in such a way as you were working in the marketplace - that would have been money well spent. If there was a DVD called "Adam Cherubini's Use of the Western Chisel" where several operations were performed, where problems were encountered and solved, where tips, tricks, and techniques were examined - I'd buy it and watch it repeatedly.

My words aren't against Adam Cherubini. I certainly understand how they may seem that way, but please don't think that. I don't need a workshop or clinic to learn - again, DVDs have been a boon for me. I was expecting a DVD type experience... To be clear - I wouldn't pay $300 to go through that conference again. Did I pick up something I can use in the workshop? I don't know, maybe... But would I pay that same $300 to watch you work in your shop for 2 days with 50 other people in live environment? Without question. Schwartz? Absolutely. Mike W? More than ever. Dunbar? Klausz? Yes, yes, and yes.

It comes down to this Adam. I've admired you, and Chris, and Mike, and Frank for so, so long. You guys are my heros, and if there is any negative emotion I hold towards that group - it's only envy. I'd give anything to have just a fraction of your skill - and I say that without shame or reservation. It's like going to see your favorite band; just to see them in person and hear them play.

Similarly - I just wanted to see you in person and watch you work. For 3 days I just wanted to be a pupil of the masters. I just wanted to watch you work... and learn.

If I have offended you, for that I am sorry.

With deepest admiration and respect,

- John Dykes

[Danny Burns]

Which reminds me, if someone is looking to buy the LN bench chisels - don't. If you are seriously considering that range of chisel - you owe it to yourself to look at the new Blue Spruce line. Very well could be the finest hand tool I've held \ used. I didn't see them on the website, but they're worth asking about....

- jbd in Denver

I am interested in following these up. Do you know what the cost for them will be.

Can you give us a heads up warning when they are on the site? Thanks.

[Wilbur Pan]

To be clear - I wouldn't pay $300 to go through that conference again. Did I pick up something I can use in the workshop? I don't know, maybe... But would I pay that same $300 to watch you work in your shop for 2 days with 50 other people in live environment? Without question. Schwartz? Absolutely. Mike W? More than ever. Dunbar? Klausz? Yes, yes, and yes.

Hi John,

First of all, it was really nice to meet you in person. Meeting people face to face is much more satisfying than talking out here in the virtual world.

There are many reasons to go to a conference in any field, not just woodworking. For conferences with a very small number of attendees, hands on experience is possible. For larger conferences, information tends to get passed on in the form of lectures and talks, rather than hands on experience. As the number of attendees goes up, it really becomes more of a networking event, and not so much an educational event. I've found this to be true for any conference on any topic that I've been to.

For me, there were many things from this conference that I found invaluable:

1. Being able to play with Adam's chisels, even if it was just for about 10 minutes. There's been a lot of discussion about flat vs. rounded bevels with his chisels, and it was nice to be able to hold and use them instead of having discussions about them.

2. On a number of occasions, I was able to see how clean the parts of various joints were before assembly, which is something I could never get from a DVD or a book.

3. Also, just watching those joints being made gave me information on work efficiency that, again, I have not been able to get from books and DVDs.

4. Being able to meet and talk to people in person, which for me was much more valuable than the educational aspect of things.

To put things in perspective, I would also love to spend $300 on a two day woodworking workshop, taught by a master, limited to 50 people or so. I also know that that's not going to happen. A short, limited class size workshop typically would cost anywhere between $500-1500. On Mike Dunbar's site, tuition for a chair building class is $700-900. American Sycamore, Kelly Mehler, Marc Adams, Ernie Conover, and David Marks all have about the same tuition range. I don't know what Chris, Mike, or Adam would charge, and I'm fairly sure that Frank would charge the same or more, but consider that $70 an hour ($560 a day) is really a pretty low price for professional instruction.

[Raney Nelson]

On Mike Dunbar's site, tuition for a one day chair building class is $700-900.

Actually, those prices are for five day classes... not to disagree with you (because I don't) but I have wondered how the W.I. manages to survive with such low tuitions.

[Dave Jeske]

Can you give us a heads up warning when they are on the site? Thanks.

I am working on it and should have them up in a day or two.
Dave

[John Dykes]

Wilbur good to hear from you, and yes - the group that I sat and shared a meal with are the salt of the Earth types.

But I agree, this medium of communication is only slightly better than pictures on cave walls. Then again, I attribute that to my poor way of articulating my points - or in this case hopes.

Without question, in this economy, I can't afford to take a week from work and spend that kind of money on a real class. With travel ($500), lodging($600), food($400), rental car ($300), vacation time ($1000-$2000) - err - and tuition ($1500) - what are we talking in real dollars? $4000 on the low end, likely much more? Man, I can't go that. Would a class with Frank, Adam, Mike W, Chris S, Mike Dunbar, Boggs, etc. be worth it to me? Absolutely, without question. As I said, these are my idols that I strive to emulate. But the point is, I cannot afford to take a real class.

As I also said before, I spent considerable dollars some time ago at a set of Woodcraft classes, and told my wife I should have taught it. Quite a bit of money wasted. As a matter of fact, I was in a panic of what the instructor was telling these poor people. He had a few of them go buy Grotz planes - "Yea, they're pretty good." I told them to return those, and I'd supply planes to those that didn't have them.

When I heard about this conference, no I wasn't expecting personalized instruction. But being taught in a 150 person environment by the best talents in hand tool woodworking today, was a deal I couldn't pass up (one day lost from work, flying on my last flyer miles, staying with my parents in Lex, eating their food, and driving their car). If it wasn't near Lexington, I couldn't have justified it. Even with the minimal cost, I didn't think I was paying for Rob Lee to tell me how well he makes his planes, or Mike W. to tell me what TPI means, or to network, or to shop for tools. My desire to learn drives me daily to do all of those things - and it is all easily available to all who ask.

What I can't do, and what I want - and need to advance - is to experience a master at his craft. My point of Adam's workshop wasn't the small class; my point was - let me see him work, at a bench, performing a task. I can't get that anywhere else. Yes, DVDs fall short in many areas; I've given up asking the TV questions! But that's the great advantage of having it live and in person.

With technology, and the cameras, and lighting that was available - displaying bench activity on those huge screens - the audience could have been 50, 150, or 500. But let me see these guys do things I don't know how to do.

Skip the hands on if you can't do it right. Gloss over the information that is easily found in print or even video formats. Here's a thought - think of tracks. And highlight the skills of these Master Craftsman that we all cherish...

The Hand Tools 101 track -
Day 1 -
Class 1 - What a plane does, how it works, how to tune it - innovations (if you must).
Class 2 - What a chisel does, how it works, how to tune it.
Class 3 - What a saw does, how it works, how to tune it.
Class 4 - Measuring and marking tools.
Day 2 -
Class 1 - Plane application. Rough, medium, fine. Maybe joinery planes.
Class 2 - Chisel application. Chopping a dovetail, paring a tenon, etc.
Class 3 - Saw application. Class 1, 2, 3.
Class 4 - Measuring and marking (should probably be class 1 actually!)

Track 2 - The Chair Building Track
Day 1 -
Class 1 - Tools
Class 2 - Woods
Class 3 - Design
Day 2-3 - The Craftsman builds a dang chair filmed and displayed on the big screen. Talking through the process, talking about past problems, issues, tips, tricks, pitfalls - and fielding questions.

Track 3 - Building a small cabinet.

Track 4 - Building....

[Adam Cherubini]

No, no offense. Didn't mean to sound defensive either. Criticism helps. My only frustration is that I anticipated your reaction and simply forgot to act on it. You guys shouldn't have felt trapped in an auditorium like you were sitting through a bad movie or Amway sales pitch. It's a mistake I won't make again. I'm actually thrilled you brought it up because it validates my initial thoughts.

Adam

[David Keller NC]

"You guys shouldn't have felt trapped in an auditorium like you were sitting through a bad movie or Amway sales pitch."

Adam - Don't be self-conscious. While I realize the above statement was hyperbole, and I've never met you in person nor seen you present, it is not possible for you to perform that badly. I've sat through an Amway sales pitch - my parents did that gig in the 70's and early 80's. It's every bit as bad as its reputation - trust me on this one!:D

[John Dykes]

Respectfully Adam, you're not hearing what I'm saying. Or maybe I'm just not gifted enough to convey the point.

Let me get to the point with some quotes from my posts before you arrived on this board (to avoid sounding like I'm sucking up).


To be fair, I did enjoy each session

Adam is one of the greatest of our time.

No reflection on Adam, perhaps one of the best presenters there

Again, all written before you posted.

I enjoyed all the sessions. They were all good. You did a great job. Let me be clear, I could have sat and listened to you for hours - it was a treat. You are a gifted speaker that uses animated movements and humor to keep the audience with you - one of the best as I said. I've taught all over the country (technology), and you are able to work the audience. The end.

But where I was wrong, was that this was a "speaking" conference with a bit of show and tell. Let me explain it this way: If you had 2 DVDs - one talking about historical tools and tool chests, and one where you make a cabinet. The first one I'd rent and enjoy over a weekend a few times, the second I'd purchase and watch endlessly. One is quite interesting, the second highlights the skill of a craftsman to which I aspire - and must observe to learn.

I'll watch my Kingshott \ Charlesworth \ Cosman \ Schwartz DVDs one or two times a month - just to absorb anything that I might have previously missed. We've talked chisels - How does Charlesworth hold the chisel for that cut, angle his arms, hold the workpiece, position his body, examine for accuracy? Yes, I know how to do it - but I want to see how a master does it. That is what I was hoping for in this trip - and again, it may have been poor expectations. But I continue to have that hope for the future (as in the "tracks" idea).

And I had the same hope for all of the sessions...

Walking out of your presentation was, and is, the furthest thing from my mind.

- jbd in Denver

[whit richardson]

Wow being new to this forum I had no idea the level of folks who read and post here, which is really neat. I'd have to refer to my prior posting about WiA which I'd stand by since I am still feel very positive about my overall experiences.

Adam thanks to your Demo and the Old School chisel session I'm now testing my handles on how they fit my shoulder. Body mechanics help a lot in not stressing the back and arms so much. Thanks for taking my picture with your Secretary drawer at the show. I've posted it to my webspace with a title "Me showing finer points of period drawer construction to Adam Cherubini." ;-)

Listening to Frank Klausz on about any subject is worthwhile.

[Wilbur Pan]

Actually, those prices are for five day classes... not to disagree with you (because I don't) but I have wondered how the W.I. manages to survive with such low tuitions.

Oops. Thanks. Edited.

[Michael Faurot]

We seem to be more than willing to blow big money on tools we don't need or understand but have no budget for education. That's not good.


I'm fortunate enough to live relatively close to a school (http://www.homesteadheritage-woodworking.com/woodworking.html) that teaches hand tool techniques. Although I'm not retired I'm also fortunate enough to have a flexible schedule that I can take the time to attend courses periodically. At least the one day variety. Even though I do have a fair amount of flexibility with my time, I don't the time to do anything more than a single day. Likewise I couldn't get away to go to the WIA conference this year. Hopefully next year.

My point is this, for those of us that are still in the work force, as much as we might want to take classes and have the money for such--we may not have the time. Contrast with being able to learn things via books, videos, Internet and the occasional bout of buying a tool and learning to use it through trial and error .



I'm going to teach some classes next year . . .
If you're going to be in the San Antonio area, let me know. I'd love to take a class and could also probably get some of the members of my local guild interested as well.

[whit richardson]

Anyone want to know how to be financially independant and also have an unlimited supply of soap on hand? I'll be hosting a gathering tomorrow night....no names now I'll tell you when you get here...

;-)

[Dave Jeske]

I am interested in following these up. Do you know what the cost for them will be.

Can you give us a heads up warning when they are on the site? Thanks.

I have managed to put the bench chisels, mallet, and burnisher up on the website. I still need to add the Draw Bore pins and filler sizes of DT chisels.

Back to the shop,
Dave

[Johnny Kleso]

I just had an though reading this thread..

How great would it be if the DVDs we bought had "Extra Scenes" like movie DVDs but show the close in shots of this or that technique that seeing is better than hearing..

The same goes for live shows if it had Digital Presenter (like 35mm slide projector) on screen with commentary before of after the live presentation so everyone can see whats going on up close..