Shaper questions?

[Wes Billups]

I just upgraded from a 1hp shaper to a 3hp with Maggi powerfeeder and was looking for input on using the powerfeeder. I've never used a powerfeeder before and would like to get input/warnings.

I'd also like to see how others store their cutters. I've been using a drawer in my old shaper but the new one doesn't have one, only an enclosed cabinet.

Thanks,
Wes

[Rick Fisher]

Hey, nice additon to the shop.

I store my shaper bits in a drawer. They are wrapped up in cloth.

I have a 3hp with a 3 wheel maggi powerfeeder. I am no expert but I can tell you what I do.

I set the feeder up so its tilted toward the fence, so the material is forced against the fence as its fed through. I set the wheels 1/4" to 5/16" lower than the stock so the wheels have to climb as the stock is fed in.

I also set it up so there is a wheel behind and in front of the bit. (make sure the bit and center wheel are free of each other :) )

For safety, dont let the wheels pinch your fingers and dont stand behind the work.

[Wes Billups]

Thanks for the help. The feeder I bought has belts in place of wheels, I was wondering if I should set it up any differently due to this.

[David DeCristoforo]

The "tractor" style feeders work pretty much the same way as the wheeled feeders with one very significant exception. With the wheels, you can "nest" the cutter between two wheels allowing you to get the feeder "in closer" when you need to. The belt cannot be positioned so close. Also. I consider the rubber part of the wheels to be "sacrificial" to a certain extent. I always have a few extra wheels around and some that have been "dedicated" to certain setups in which it was beneficial to "let the cutter in" to one of the wheels. (Of course you need to avoid hitting the metal portion of the wheel!) But this is not an option with a "tractor" style feeder.

[Ron Bontz]

Congrats on the new shaper and feeder. I do not have a feeder. Most of what I do can be hand fed so the money has gone to other things in the shop. One of these days....I try to store my cutters in their original containers if I can. The bits that don't come in a nice container like Freeborn, I try to sandwich between two pieces of 1/2" ply a little bigger than the bit. I drill a 1/4" hole in a dowel roughly the same arbor and height as the cutter. Then run a 1/4" bolt and wing nut through it. The cutters are on a cabinet shelf and the accessories, (assorted arbors, bearings, reducers, etc) are in a drawer. Some day I might actually build a small cabinet to either mount on the side of the shaper or beside it. Yet another project. BTW. does anyone know where a person can get some of those containers Freeborn uses? They stack very well. Best of luck.:)

[Brad Shipton]

Congrats on the purchase. Not much to add about the feeder operation. It takes practice to learn how to setup one up quickly. Test spin the cutter before turning on to the shaper to make sure nothing is too close. The belts are largely for short stock and you might find some setups where it is not as handy as wheels as David mentions. If you do pick up a set of new wheels I have had far better luck with the Western Rollers for feeding than the stock Maggis.

For storing my cutters, shaper hood and accessories I made a cart. Each of the drawers has two or four 1 1/4" dowels to hold the cutters from moving around when I take the drawer out. If you would like a pic, I can add one tomorrow.

Brad

[Rick Fisher]

Wes.. ya know, people would be a bit more helpful with some pic's :)

This "mythical" new shaper and feeder.. I just cant picture it.

[Rick Fisher]

I recently ran a house load of casing for a friend. It was pre-primed ultralight mdf.

I found that the wheels on the Maggi slipped on the moulding, causing it to stop from time to time. This stuff was about 1/2" thick.

I lowered the Maggi almost to the table, still got some slippage. I never get that with actual wood.

This is kinda a tip/ observation/ complaint..

[Rick Christopherson]

I set the wheels 1/4" to 5/16" lower than the stock so the wheels have to climb as the stock is fed in. Wow. Unless the loading springs are very weak, that seems like an awful big bite. Maybe my springs are really tight, but I limit the bite to about 1/8 inch. Anything more than that and I can hear the drive getting loaded down due to friction, and the whole head flexes.

The biggest tip I can offer is to find some way to remind yourself to check that all adjustments are locked down before starting. I've been lucky. The times that I forgot to lock down the main pivot, the feeder was going in reverse and pushed itself away from the cutter.

[Rick Fisher]

I get slippage on long stock unless I give it 1/4". I dont know why.
The Maggi probably has 5 hours on it. Origional tires..

I milled a bunch of rough 2x4 and 4x4 cedar in the fall. 7' - 10' lengths. I went over 1/4" on that stock.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Wes, I store my cutters in the boxes they came from the manufacturer in.

Setting up the feeder for my 3 wheeled one is as follows;

- toe in towards the fence or table is 5 to 6 mm

- the feed wheels are set 3 to 5 mm below the wood surface

To improve feeder performance, make sure your shaper table and fence are slippery, I use paste wax on mine.

Also check that the feeder wheels are soft and grippy, not hard and slippery. Like all rubber items, they have a lifespan and should be replaced as required.

Have fun with the feeder and shaper, they're very versatile machines.

Regards, Rod.

[Rick Christopherson]

I get slippage on long stock unless I give it 1/4". I dont know why.
The Maggi probably has 5 hours on it. Origional tires..

I milled a bunch of rough 2x4 and 4x4 cedar in the fall. 7' - 10' lengths. I went over 1/4" on that stock.You might want to consider waxing the table. I use straight paraffin (candle) wax because anything else is going to wear off after a couple of boards. I have a brick of wax, and I rub it across the table and fence. It won't look or feel slippery but it is.

[Brad Shipton]

Wes, here is my cart. I have a saw/shaper so I also store blades. I added a couple extra spots for future cutters. The boxes do not have any hardware and I have found it handy to set the boxes on the machine during setup. One thing I dont like, is one of my cutters has many little accessories and I didnt allow any dedicated spots for those.

Brad

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/Brad805/Shop/DSC01401-sm.jpg

[Rod Sheridan]

Wes, here is my cart. I have a saw/shaper so I also store blades. I added a couple extra spots for future cutters. The boxes do not have any hardware and I have found it handy to set the boxes on the machine during setup. One thing I dont like, is one of my cutters has many little accessories and I didnt allow any dedicated spots for those.

Brad

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/Brad805/Shop/DSC01401-sm.jpg


Really nice Brad, you've come up with a great method of storing all that shiny Austrian metal.

Regards, Rod.

[Steve Clardy]

I keep my cutters in their original box also. Send them in for sharpening that way also.
If I wear one out and need another, I have the part # right there on the box.

[Peter Quinn]

One note on short parts. Some parts such as sticking rails on cabinet doors may be too short to pass individually. I like to gang these together using strips of 1/8" masonite and turners tape. The masonite gets stuck to a set of three or four rails and the whole thing passes through the power-feeder together, masonite on top. Otherwise they tend to suck into the fence a bit at the end of the cut and get ruined.

I have also found that the angle of the feeder towards the fence is more critical on medium-short parts, say in the 12"-18" range; things that can pass through a 3 wheel feeder on their own but may walk into the cutter head a bit at the end of a cut if the feeder is angled too severely. Keep an eye out for that. I run my wheels 1/4" below the stock, keep the table and fence waxed, often stopping to rewax at the first sign of resistance.

Always make sure every adjustment point is tight before proceeding. Seems obvious right? Yet I have missed one before and it can get weird in the middle of a cut when your feeder starts moving. Now I double check the whole set before turning anything on as a matter of routine.

[Karl Brogger]

One note on short parts. Some parts such as sticking rails on cabinet doors may be too short to pass individually.


Cut your rails on the shaper, then cope them. I hate feeding little parts through a shaper, gives me the willy's

[Chip Lindley]

Yes Yes! Run long lengths of rail / stile material thru the shaper, then chop to length and cope the ends. No sense dealing with many short parts if can be avoided!

[Peter Quinn]

Would you be willing to explain that to my boss? He insists we cope, then stick, even on rails as short as 5 1/2"! He seems to feel using a coped backer after sticking introduces inaccuracies and takes too much time. The hardboard/tape thing really does work quite well, though it is a minor PIA on all but the smallest of jobs.

I'd also rather stick longer lengths of stile material and cut to length last, but this too I am not allowed to do. Any reason not to in my own shop?

The production schedule is as follows; Produce S4S 1/4" over width, .020" over final thickness. Cut all parts to length. Cope rails, stick everything, rip to width, assemble, sand to thickness, fit to opening (most doors are inset mortised hinges, no euro stuff, or not much anyway).

How are you guys handling door making production?

Funny thing is we always mill the short rails in multiples of 4-6 on length to make it safer/quicker to flatten and plane. Wouldn't take much thought to stick than cope, then rip to width, then cut to length.

[Karl Brogger]

Would you be willing to explain that to my boss? He insists we cope, then stick, even on rails as short as 5 1/2"! He seems to feel using a coped backer after sticking introduces inaccuracies and takes too much time. The hardboard/tape thing really does work quite well, though it is a minor PIA on all but the smallest of jobs.

If you really want to get his panties in a knot, tell him he needs to buy another shaper for coping. One for left and one for right copes, that way you don't have to run a backer through the coper to fit the profile, just a flat piece. Its faster, safer, easier. One shop I worked at we coped everything first, then ran it through the stick profile. Its the only place I've worked that did it that way. Plus we didn't have feeders on anything. That was scary. Doing it with two copers saves a ton of time, as you can have two people coping at the same time too if you're in a bind. Sounds like your employer has zero sense of time managment.


I'd also rather stick longer lengths of stile material and cut to length last, but this too I am not allowed to do. Any reason not to in my own shop?

Nope


The production schedule is as follows; Produce S4S 1/4" over width, .020" over final thickness. Cut all parts to length. Cope rails, stick everything, rip to width, assemble, sand to thickness, fit to opening (most doors are inset mortised hinges, no euro stuff, or not much anyway).

How are you guys handling door making production?
Exposed hinges on inset? cheesy..... but thats just my opinion. Plus lots of extra labor.

If I'm looking for 2-1/4" stile and rail.
-I rip everything to 2-7/16. (3/16" big)
-Run it through the planer on both sides to take out saw marks taking a 1/16 off of each side.
-Run it through the shaper for the stick profile taking almost another 1/16" off, I like em to finish just a hair strong.
-Cut & mark all my stiles, which get cut a 1/32" strong.
-Cut & mark all my rails, rails get cut 3/32" strong. The coper takes a 1/32" off of each end leaving it a 1/32" strong.
-Cut/sand panels
-Sort & stack parts for each door
-Assemble, I don't have a door clamp yet, so I use pipe clamps, face up for about 15 minutes till the glue tacks. I rotate 8 doors in the clamps at a time. When taken out of the clamps the joints get pinned.
-Run the doors through the widebelt on 80g, then 120g. Both sides
-Edge sand the doors, this takes off the extra length of the rail and stile, getting the door to its finished and proper size
-Make final pass through Timesaver with 180g, both sides. Should finish out just a hair over 3/4" (starting at 13/16")
-Drill for hinge hardware
-Route/shape edge profile.
-Sand with DA



Funny thing is we always mill the short rails in multiples of 4-6 on length to make it safer/quicker to flatten and plane. Wouldn't take much thought to stick than cope, then rip to width, then cut to length.

There's no reason to be ripping down the rail and stile material after its had the profile run on it. Its just adding a step, you/ he should be final sizing the material with the shaper.

[William Addison]

Has anyone else ever wondered, as the last few inches of stock go under the wheels on the feeder what would happen if the wheel caught your finger? Just one of those whimsical things I think about while woodworking, would you be able to jerk your finger out, would it be broken, or shaped?

[David DeCristoforo]

" Any reason not to in my own shop?"

Not for stiles which are simply crosscut to length. But for rails it's better to cope first, then run the profile. The reason is that when you cope the end of a piece of stock, you will always get some tear out. If you cope square edged stock, you can eliminate the tear out by using a backer. But once the edge is shaped, you can only back one end cut. The other end will require placing the profiled edge against the fence and most of the shaped area will be unsupported and it will tear out. You can back this cut with a backer that is profiled with the cope cut so that the profile "fits into" it. But this can get very "fussy" and requires that you either switch backers once per rail or that you run one end on all the rails, then switch backers and run the other end. It's cumbersome in either case.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Has anyone else ever wondered...would you be able to jerk your finger out, would it be broken, or shaped?"

You don't want to find out....

[Chip Lindley]

Bosses seem to like to have the Last Word! (Its always been done THAT way!)

One would actually have to check one method against the other, but I think more short pieces would be ruined in the sticking process than time wasted using a mating backer for short pieces being coped. One bobble and a short piece can easily be sniped exiting the sticking cutter. Instant Kindling!

The time spent to run a few pieces of mating material cut with cope profile as a backer for rails held in the coping sled seems like good insurance to me, and I do it this way. Once the setup is in place, there is no time difference in operations AND no blowout on coped ends.

Your shop is your own, it's Your Preference!

[Rick Fisher]

Has anyone else ever wondered, as the last few inches of stock go under the wheels on the feeder what would happen if the wheel caught your finger? Just one of those whimsical things I think about while woodworking, would you be able to jerk your finger out, would it be broken, or shaped?

I have wondered, and think of it whenever I am using it. I figure I would either get a horrible pinch or a broken digit.

Since you mention it, I have no idea why the hand would not go into the cutter as well..

Yikes..

[Karl Brogger]

A shop that I worked at had a Voorwood molder for cutting and sanding the dish and relief for raised panels. It had a conveyor and idler wheels. A kid got a finger caught in it one day. Popped like a zit, and the tip had to be amputated. I don't know if a feeder would do as much damage, but probably real close.