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View Full Version : Pontification: when does something stop being "handmade"?



Brian Goulet
11-13-2008, 4:18 PM
No doubt we all use power tools and various things to create our art...but one has to wonder when something stops being "handmade". A purist might call using a motor in any fashion not handmade, whereas others may consider doing any one part of the process as handmade. I posed this question on the Internation Association of Penturners forum today and it has sparked quite the response. The reason I ask is because our technologies now allow the hobbyist to purchase CNC machines at a somewhat reasonable price; the individual now has the ability to automate aspects such as routing, carving and turning....so what defines "handmade" to you??

randall rosenthal
11-13-2008, 4:24 PM
i do seventy five percent of my work with sharpened metal but use air and motorized "hand" tools and claim that my work is "hand" made. i think even including normal wood shop tools like table saws and planers still fall into the hand made (as opposed to factory made) category. no one is arguing with me and have been included in some juried shows that are all about "hand made"

CNC .....ixnay

Lee DeRaud
11-13-2008, 5:29 PM
I intensely dislike the term "hand-made": making artifical distinctions on the basis of what tools are used elevates "process" to the detriment of "product". I appreciate artistry in the end-product regardless of how it is achieved, but find no particular virtue in self-imposed restrictions in the path from raw material to result.

Randal Stevenson
11-13-2008, 5:41 PM
There is some crossover, where "handmade" is used (even when machines are used) because it sounds/sells, so much better then "homemade" (verses commercially produced in mass).

IMHO, there isn't ONE good definition.

Lee DeRaud
11-13-2008, 5:49 PM
I find it ironic that two of the four Google ads displayed for this thread are for CNC routers. :cool:

(Or were a minute ago, it's changed now...is a Chevy Silverado a woodworking tool?)

Karl Brogger
11-13-2008, 6:23 PM
It's kinda like a can of Campbells soup saying its "Homemade"

"it is functionally impossible for a corporation, operating out of a 40 acre proccessing facility to produce anything homemade. I don't care if the CEO is living in the basement, cooking on a hot plate." -George Carlin-

David DeCristoforo
11-13-2008, 6:28 PM
Here's the big challenge: Go into the woods. Find a tree. Make something out of it using nothing but your hands. Call me when you are done.

randall rosenthal
11-13-2008, 6:46 PM
david....check this out....hand made.

http://www.morning-earth.org/ARTISTNATURALISTS/AN_Goldsworthy.html

Don Abele
11-13-2008, 6:47 PM
Both "hand-made" and "home-made" to me indicate that it was not a mass-produced item from a factory somewhere. That's it. I don't make the distinction as to what was used to make it (air, power, etc).

I agree Campbell's soup is NOT home-made, even if it is "mmmm...good".


Here's the big challenge: Go into the woods. Find a tree. Make something out of it using nothing but your hands. Call me when you are done.

David, I took your challege and here is the "hand-made, direction-indicating" device that I made for you :D Just so you know, I got three splinters and two blisters in the process :p

100951

Be well,

Doc

Mike Henderson
11-13-2008, 7:03 PM
I intensely dislike the term "hand-made": making artifical distinctions on the basis of what tools are used elevates "process" to the detriment of "product". I appreciate artistry in the end-product regardless of how it is achieved, but find no particular virtue in self-imposed restrictions in the path from raw material to result.
Amen

Mike

Greg Cole
11-13-2008, 7:04 PM
The term hand crafted is rather subjective or relative I'd say. A stick built house can be considered as hand built as a Chippendale highboy.
With CNC machines and the like, my only comment is the true craft gets lost in technology.

Tom Veatch
11-13-2008, 7:13 PM
...Make something out of it using nothing but your hands....

I agree with your sentiments, David. If you use any tool to produce something, what matters the nature of the tool. Once the hair-splitting starts, should a distinction be made between using a chipped flint and a tool steel blade? Many's the time I've found that the main advantage of a power tool is that it allows me to screw it up faster.

David DeCristoforo
11-13-2008, 7:21 PM
"david....check this out....hand made."

Goldsworthy's own words:
"I enjoy the freedom of just using my hands and "found" tools--a sharp stone, the quill of a feather, thorns."

Lee DeRaud
11-13-2008, 7:23 PM
The term hand crafted is rather subjective or relative I'd say. A stick built house can be considered as hand built as a Chippendale highboy.
With CNC machines and the like, my only comment is the true craft gets lost in technology.The only "true craft" is what occurs in the mind of the artist. All the rest is just getting it out in the open where others can look at it.

Greg Cole
11-13-2008, 8:17 PM
Once the hair-splitting starts
Or has started....:D
I see both sides of the pontification, I personally prefer one and professionally another.

Sonny Edmonds
11-13-2008, 8:29 PM
Naw.
Better to say: I made.
Leaves no dought as to where it came from.
I made it.
Whether it be firewood or an heirloom. ;)

Jim Becker
11-13-2008, 9:18 PM
Both "hand-made" and "home-made" to me indicate that it was not a mass-produced item from a factory somewhere. That's it.

I like that one, Don...it's flexible enough to fit with the realities of available technology, yet represents the desire for individual or at lease small group craftsmanship.

randall rosenthal
11-13-2008, 10:35 PM
at this point in the discussion my question is.... if i design something on the computer and have the CNC carve it out.....even if it is totally original...and done at home.......is it hand made?

Kevin Groenke
11-13-2008, 11:48 PM
David, I took your challege and here is the "hand-made, direction-indicating" device that I made for you :D Just so you know, I got three splinters and two blisters in the process :p

100951

Be well,

Doc

Doc, you're a genius! The beautiful hand crafted object you "made" this afternoon has been inducted into the National Toy Hall of Fame.

The lowly stick, a universal plaything powered by a child's imagination, landed in the National Toy Hall of Fame on Thursday along with the Baby Doll and the skateboard.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/07/stick.hall.fame.ap/

Hand made, hand crafted, designer/builder... all fuzzy definitions all of which have different baggage depending on the reader and the context. I personally draw the line when corporations get involved, when "makers" become automatons, when production is out-sourced, when the middle man makes more $ and when quantities are in the 10's-100's depending on the object. That is until IKEA buys one of my hand-made designs.

-kg

Lee DeRaud
11-14-2008, 12:38 AM
at this point in the discussion my question is.... if i design something on the computer and have the CNC carve it out.....even if it is totally original...and done at home.......is it hand made?No. But the real question should be, why would you care?

Is it original? Is it artistic? Do you take pride in its creation?

If you're going to ask questions, ask questions that actually mean something.

David DeCristoforo
11-14-2008, 12:49 AM
"...here is the "hand-made, direction-indicating" device..."

Are you sure you didn't use any tools? Those end cuts look pretty clean to me. Actually what you have made is a tool. A tool that can be used in many ways, any of which might introduce the same question under consideration here. For example, you could use that tool to poke holes in the ground to plant seeds. But would those seeds have then been planted completely "by hand"?

There was a proposition put forward that what really mattered was how much risk a particular operation presented. In other words, if a process involved the risk of completely destroying something, the process would have more validity than one in which the outcome involved no risk at all.

Does using modern machinery guarantee the outcome? Or does it, as has been suggested, increase the possibility of damage? Certainly, used without the necessary skill or knowledge, a machine can do much more damage much more quickly than any "hand" tool could. How easy is it, for example, to completely destroy a table top with a belt sander? In the wrong hands, pretty easy.

It has been said that the game of golf can never be won, only played. I think, by the same token, that this question can never be resolved, only discussed.

Greg Cole
11-14-2008, 8:46 AM
why would you care?
To some the means are equally as important as the end.
I too agree with David... there's no right nor wrong here nor will there be, it's a subjective concept that is highly debateable.

Lee DeRaud
11-14-2008, 10:30 AM
To some the means are equally as important as the end.That's where my third question comes in: "Do you take pride in its creation?"

If you do not or cannot take pride in work using high(er)-tech methods, don't use them. But attaching a highly subjective label to the end is unlikely to enhance any pride you take in the means.

Charlie Plesums
11-14-2008, 11:31 AM
Dr Thos Moser (www.ThomasMoser.com) anguished over this issue... his company makes outstanding solid wood furniture, and last time I talked to him, a couple years ago, he had 93 craftsmen (and women) at benches individually responsible for the piece of furniture they were creating - and ultimately signing each piece. At first he allowed them to use wood rough cut by a separate crew, and has gradually allowed more machine work - even allowing the deep carved seats to be CNC carved. (He anguishes even more that the number of non-woodworkers now far exceeds the number of woodworkers).

Is his work homemade? Certainly not. Is it handmade? I don't know if he claims it is, but it certainly has the touch of the master craftsman responsible for each piece. If he wanted to call it handmade, I wouldn't object.

Don Abele
11-14-2008, 1:34 PM
...Are you sure you didn't use any tools? Those end cuts look pretty clean to me...

It has been said that the game of golf can never be won, only played. I think, by the same token, that this question can never be resolved, only discussed.

David, you know I was only pokin' fun at your challenge ;) That pic was the first one to come up in a search for "stick" on the net.

To the second point quoted above, I believe you are correct. Everyone has their own definition and own interpretation. Mine, that I posted above, is simple and works for me.

Be well,

Doc

Dustin Lane
11-14-2008, 9:07 PM
Here's the big challenge: Go into the woods. Find a tree. Make something out of it using nothing but your hands. Call me when you are done.

what about something like what these people do?
http://www.pooktre.com/