heating help

[Rick Moyer]

Will be moving in a month or so. Currently have 13X23 shop and will be going into a 20X21 two car garage. New (garage) right now has minimal electric, minimal light, and no heat. Will be adding significant electric but have questions about heating. I understand about carbon fuels producing moisture. Old shop had a ventless gas wall heater but I had no problems with it, however the new house/shop is electric only right now. I will need to heat the shop and would like to have some heat in there at all times in the winter.
What would you recommend for heat? Only 110 for now but will have 220 very soon as my jointer will need 220. Ceilings are about 10-12" I think. Garage is not currenty insulated but will be well insulated eventually. Some of you have radiant heaters. I am looking for the best combo of adequate heat, efficiency, and able to maintain temps when not in the shop. Recommendations please>

[David G Baker]

Spend as much money as you can afford on insulation. If your shop is insulated to the max and you want to maintain a constant heat you can do it with electric heat for a reasonable cost. I have a infrared tube heater in one of my buildings that does a fair job of heating the area that I work in but the building is not insulated yet, if it was, the heater would do a good job and not cost much to leave on 24/7.
There have been several threads that have provided good information on the type of heater that will work well in your situation. My main shop is heated with a forced air heater that is natural gas fired. I lower the heat to 55 degrees when I am not in the shop and turn it up to 65 when working in the building.

[Rob Cunningham]

I have electric baseboard heat in my shop and it works great. It's quiet and doesn't blow dust around. They run on 220 and I think they are from HD. I set them low when I'm not in the shop but they warm up very quickly.

[Mike Wilkins]

Please add as much insulation in the walls/ceilings as possible now, before the walls are closed up. Don't do like me, and add later. My wall coverings are 1/4" OSB attached with 1" screws, so removal will be a snap. But removing all the stuff attached to the walls and on the floor in front of the walls is the real kicker. Insulation will make more of a difference than the type of heating system used, as any heat generated will find its way out of even the most minute of openings.
As for heat suggestions; try your local HVAC dealers for one of those PTAC units, similar to what you see in hotel rooms. Or if you can get gas, one of the direct-vent units, that vent from and to the outside.
Good luck and congrats on the new space.

[Josh Rudolph]

As Mike said...Insulate now!

I had my shop framed in 2" x 6" material just for the extra insulation. I put 2 insulated garage doors and lucked out with my windows and got all low E from a surplus dealer.

I will eventually tackle my heating problem also (I am waiting to see how our gas prices balance out), for now I will continue to use my kerosene heater for about an hour or two every couple days. The temp stays for about 2-3 days until I need to run it again. Went the entire winter on 1 - 5 gallon can of kerosene (less than $50).

Now I don't have the PA climate, but still experience some of the cold snaps as I am still in the Mid-Atlantic in VA.

Insulated to the max is the first step.

Josh

[Ben Franz]

I'm finishing a garage/shop remodel now. I bought a PTAC unit on Ebay and just fired it up last week. The local HVAC dealers wouldn't sell to me (no mechanical contractor's license) so on-line it was. There are a lot of dealers if you don't want to go the Ebay route. I'm happy with the heater side, but my unit can't be set lower than 61 so full time operation would be too expensive. You would want to check this detail b4 buying yours. Haven't tried the A/C mode yet. Good luck.

[Rick Moyer]

Thanks for the responses so far. Maybe I need to restate my question. I will be insulating well. I don't have natural gas available at this time so that source is out. I'm only interested in HEAT, not a/c, as golf takes up my summer free-time over woodworking. The PTAC units are cool (no pun intended) but I don't want to pay for A/C that I won't use anyway.

What I really want to know is what style heater can I adequately heat the shop, control the temp and maintain a reasonable level when not in the shop, too? I suppose I'd be leaning toward electric to fill this bill!? Anyone have something they are using along this line? 220V elect, or 110 adequate?

[Rob Grubbs]

I bought a 7500 watt electric heater from Global Industrial. I also added the optional thermostat so I could leave it on all the time. So far it has not gotten cold enough to really test it out, but it seems to work pretty well. Here is a link.
http://www.globalindustrial.com/gcs/product/productsPerPicGroups.web?picGroupKey=3775&options.parentCategoryKey=4627&index=20&catSearchParams.categoryKey=6095&REQ_SUB_CAT=Electric+Unit+Heaters#gridAnchor

[Rick Moyer]

I bought a 7500 watt electric heater from Global Industrial. I also added the optional thermostat so I could leave it on all the time. So far it has not gotten cold enough to really test it out, but it seems to work pretty well. Here is a link.
http://www.globalindustrial.com/gcs/product/productsPerPicGroups.web?picGroupKey=3775&options.parentCategoryKey=4627&index=20&catSearchParams.categoryKey=6095&REQ_SUB_CAT=Electric+Unit+Heaters#gridAnchor

I was looking at this one http://www.air-n-water.com/product/G73.html
and wondering if it would be adequate. Let me know how yours is working out for you. How big is your shop/garage and how well insulated?

Anyone have info on what is the best insulatiuon to use with 2X4 studs on exterior walls?

[Rob Grubbs]

I was looking at this one http://www.air-n-water.com/product/G73.html
and wondering if it would be adequate. Let me know how yours is working out for you. How big is your shop/garage and how well insulated?

Anyone have info on what is the best insulatiuon to use with 2X4 studs on exterior walls?
That unit looks exactly like mine except it has a few less BTUs. They are probably manufactured by the same company.
My shop is 24x30 and has 2x4 walls with R13 fiberglass and OSB skin on both sides. The ceiling is drywall with blown cellulose above.

[Sonny Edmonds]

"Anyone have info on what is the best insulatiuon to use with 2X4 studs on exterior walls? "

The foil backed foam (Styrofoam) board I think is "best".
It's easy to work with and cut in for existing wiring devices. A bit more work than paper backed fiberglass insulation.
But I've been in galvanised buildings before and after installation and the difference was remarkable. (And you havn't lived until you have to enter an uninsulated grey tin box in 100 + degree weather sitting in full sunlight! Fries you wavos!)
Think of a tool box setting in the sun, how hot it can get inside.
Now think of an ice chest sitting in the sun with cold beer in it.
You want to be a boiling hot hammer? Or a nice cold beer?
Works the same for heating. Hold that heat inside your shop. With electric heating, you simply cannot have too much insulation.
Usually the area wants to be insulated on all six sides. (Yep, don't forget the floor.) For the best climate control. Seal it.

[Bob Slater]

I had my shop spray insulated. All done in one day, no air leaks whatsoever and no vapour barrier. It was money well spent. I had no heating system last year other than two small cube heaters and one plug in 110Volt Rad. It kept the temp in the mid 40's even when it was brutally cold out. my shop is 1100 sq feet. I have a heat pump installed now that will keep things toasty down to about minus 10C then will be installing some electric unit heaters to kick in when it is really cold in January Feb and also maintaining the shop in the 40's when no one is home. (the heat pupm thermostat does not go below 60f)

[Ron Knapp]

I am just about ready for my insulation and have heard great things about spray insulation. If you don't mind my asking which type of spray insulation? Approx Cost? and did you have to move everything out of the area before they sprayed?

[Ben Franz]

Insulation contractors that do spray foam is the way to go IF you want to fork over the $$$ - usual cost is 2-3 times fiberglass route and not a DIY option. You probably would need to clear out space before spraying foam - sometimes they use a rotary trimmer to get the product flush with frame surface. A good contractor can help with the cost analysis to see what the payback time would be.

[Bob Slater]

I forget the brand name at the moment. It was one of the big brands. I went with a foam that has minimal off gassing. One portion of my shop was already insulated with traditional fibreglass and already had drywall up. I had the walls and ceiling done on two rooms. That totalled about 700 square feet. I think it cost $2200 Canadian, or probably about $!800 USD .. My Memory is not what it used to be.
I am just about ready for my insulation and have heard great things about spray insulation. If you don't mind my asking which type of spray insulation? Approx Cost? and did you have to move everything out of the area before they sprayed?

[Ron Knapp]

Thanks for the information. The cost seems reasonable enough but I think my biggest problem is that I won't be able to move everything out of the area. Some friends have offered to help me shuffle it around while they are working but I don't know if that will be enough for the insulation people. I guess I'll have to call and have them look at it.

[Bob Slater]

Just remembered, the company was called Icenene or something like that.

[Jason Hanko]

Insulation contractors that do spray foam is the way to go IF you want to fork over the $$$ - usual cost is 2-3 times fiberglass route and not a DIY option. You probably would need to clear out space before spraying foam - sometimes they use a rotary trimmer to get the product flush with frame surface. A good contractor can help with the cost analysis to see what the payback time would be.

I was at ProBuild the other day and they had a closed cell sprayfoam kit for $700... I forget the exact square footage it was supposed to cover, but I remember that we had calculated it as being more than enough to cover the 650 ft^2 of roof decking I had wanted to insulate. Kit came with the two-part "insulation mix", hose, gun, and a crapload of disposable nozzles. Mix N' Shoot.