Tool Lockouts (kid proofing)

[Mike OMelia]

I have three power tools, all Jet, that have no lockout mechanism. 18" Bandsaw, 6" Jointer, and a 10" Super Saw (table saw).

Is there a standard device, perhaps key operated that I can purchase and install on these tools?

Mike

[jeremy levine]

I debated getting some of these plug locks
http://www.familysafemedia.com/powerstop_power_plug_lock.html

[Mike OMelia]

Yes, I saw that, not what I am looking for. I want to modify the control box on each tool with a rotary switch that is operated with a key.

Thanks,

Mike

[Jim Becker]

In the chance that you cannot find the hardware you want to put on the tool, you might consider putting a small sub-panel in that only feeds your tool circuits along with a locking cut-off switch between it and where it's being fed power from. That takes all of the issue from the tool and moves it to the shop, itself, and means you can add and subtract (that latter one would be unusual... :D) tools over time without having to physically modify them.

[harry strasil]

I turn off the power to all my tools whenever I leave my shop by pulling down the handle on the power box which is up high and is a sub box from the breaker panel.

Also my shop made air cleaner is wired into my shop lighting circuit and is on only when the lights are on.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have three power tools, all Jet, that have no lockout mechanism. 18" Bandsaw, 6" Jointer, and a 10" Super Saw (table saw).

Is there a standard device, perhaps key operated that I can purchase and install on these tools?

Mike

Hi Mike, if your tools have magnetic starters, any automation or motor control place can sell you a locking switch such as Allen Bradley or Square D that go in series with the stop button.

If your tools don't have magnetic starters, then you need a motor rated locking disconnect switch.

The other option is to put a standard locking disconnect switch on the feeder for your shop, or the feeder for the machines.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. When I had young children I added a locking switch to the starter on the TS, later I went with a locking switch for the shop feeder as my machinery collection grew.

[Gary Lange]

I would give these people a call and discuss what you have in mind and what you need. They make many different types of locks and can perhaps supply you with a key operated locking device.

http://www.illinoislock.com/

[Mike OMelia]

Gary, those do not appear to have the current capacity needed for large tools.

Mike

[M Toupin]

If your machines have a motor starter then it's just a simple mater of changing out or adding a remote:

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.513/.f?category=154


If your machine doesn't have a motor starter then you could add a motor starter or a contactor and a remote.

Another option, as has been mentioned, is flopping the breakers or locking the door when you leave.

Mike

[Larry Fox]

I use a disconnect switch with a lock. You can see it in the third pic down in this thread.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=80262

It disconnects power to the TS and jointer.

[Mike OMelia]

If your machines have a motor starter then it's just a simple mater of changing out or adding a remote:

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.513/.f?category=154


If your machine doesn't have a motor starter then you could add a motor starter or a contactor and a remote.

Another option, as has been mentioned, is flopping the breakers or locking the door when you leave.

Mike


OK, Mike, here is where I show my ignorance. BTW, I think you may have the solution. How do I know is the motor has a starter? Or, how do I know if it does not?

It sounds like you are talking about a low voltage, low current part of the motor... makes sense since switching high voltage/current is not really desirable.

Mike

EDIT: I figured out what you meant by magnetic starter. I will test the machines tonight to see if they do have them. I believe the answer is yes. Assuming that, are you talking about a circuit that disrupts the solenoid current? I assume these operate at a much lower current and voltage than the tools... but where do they get the lower current and voltage from? Is there a step down transformer in these things?

Mike

[Mike OMelia]

Actually, I think it uses contactors... What actually is the difference between contactors and magnetics starters? They appear similar to me.

Mike

[Anthony Whitesell]

I have a curiosity about the magnetic starters as well. I just acquired my first machine with one and I haven't analyzed the circuit in my G0490 book yet so see how they work.

My assumption is that there is a contactor that is latched up by feeding the coil input through one sets of the contacts. The on switch is in parallel with the contacts and the off switch is in series with the coil (either between the coil and 'ground' or the coil and contacts/on switch). The incoming power goes to one set of contacts and to the on switch. Both would then join to the coil, then to the off switch, and finally to ground. The power for the machine (motor) passes through another set of contacts on the same contactor. When the power is disrupted (off switch or power failure) the contactor de-energizes thereby opening the contacts and not allowing the machine to start again until the on switch is pressed.

For those that know actually know about the magnetic starters, how close am I?

[Rod Sheridan]

Mike, a motor starter would incorporate a contactor, and most importantly, and overload relay to protect the motor from overheating.

The overload relay measures the motor current vs time to determine if the motor temperature will be getting too high due to overloading.

If you do have a magnetic starter, your lockable switch would go in series with the stop push button. The switch would normally be closed, and when you lock it, it would lock in the open position, preventing the contactor in the starter from closing.

Regards Rod.

[Mike OMelia]

I agree... I did more research on differences between contactors and magnetic starters. Basically, a magnetic starter is a combination of a contactor and a thermal load protector (have I got that correct?)

Now, here is the $64K question. Where is the low voltage/current coming from that is energizing the coils? Putting a lockable interrupter between the low v/a source and the start button makes sense...

Mike

[M Toupin]

Anthony explained it pretty well in simple terms, but you've got the basic idea too. There's lots of variations, but most get the power for the contactor from the input voltage either directly or stepped down through a transformer. While a motor starter is the best solution, generally they aren't found on the cheaper smaller machines due to the cost. It really makes no sense to put a $100 motor starter on a $50 motor. On the other hand, for a small motor/machine that didn't come with a motor starter, a contactor and remote would be a inexpensive and safe retrofit.

It's still going to be a lot cheaper to throw a breaker though...

Mike

[Mike OMelia]

Yes, the breaker is the way to go except for the fact that there is a "garage fridge" on the circuit. The 220 circuit, no problem, i can throw that one. But the rest of the garage is on a single circuit to include the fridge.

If the tools include a transformer to step down the coil voltage, then a separate key operated switch will work (and be economical). If, however, the coil voltage in the starter is the same as the motor voltage, then I would have to get some kind of keyed switch that could handle the voltage and current, and that is harder and more expensive. As of yet, I have found no such switch. I'm sure they exist, but none has surfaced yet.

Mike

[Chris Padilla]

How about a good stern talking to your children?

"You touch my equipment and I'll send you back from whence you came. Just remember, I brought you into this world, I'll take you out. Now gimmie a hug."

;)

Personally, I try to educate my child and show her what is going on in the shop and why she can get hurt. Otherwise, I habitually unplug *most* stuff in my shop when I'm done for the day.

[Mike OMelia]

How about a good stern talking to your children?

"You touch my equipment and I'll send you back from whence you came. Just remember, I brought you into this world, I'll take you out. Now gimmie a hug."

;)

Personally, I try to educate my child and show her what is going on in the shop and why she can get hurt. Otherwise, I habitually unplug *most* stuff in my shop when I'm done for the day.

:):)
I agree. And have done that, and always unplug everything. And I trust my kids to do the right thing. But there is always the possibility for a moment of stupidity (I count for a LOT of that), and then there are the kids that come over to the house and on and on. Maybe I will just some of those cases you lock around the plug end.

Mike

[Thomas Williams]

The switch on my Jet jointer has a hole through the on button. You can put a lock through the hole so the switch can not be pushed to the on position. I think the lock from my Craftsman 22124 will fit.

[Mike OMelia]

I was thinking about that possibility today! I will go out and look at mine. Thats a good idea. If there is not one, I guess I could make one.

Mike

Edit: You are correct! All of my Jet tools have this hole. Perfect! However, the tablesaw has the hole vertically oriented, making it difficult to visuallize something rigid going through it since the fence is in the way. What kind of lock??

[Mike OMelia]

Rats! Why does this have to be so hard! I cannot find anything that will lock that hole! I can stick a "normal" size finish nail through it. It is less than 1/8" diameter. I think (if I can find one) a cable lock would be too flexible.

What is needed (IMHO) is something like those locks used to hold the trailer reciever in the body of the hitch. Only REAL thin. Ideas please!

Argh!!

Mike

[Anthony Whitesell]

I can't picture the exact setup you have, but I can make a suggestion that may work. It's not too pretty though.

1. Acquire a piece of 1/8" cable and two crimp cable ends
2. Loop the wire through the hole and crimp the loop fast
3. Make another loop in the other end and crimp it. (the cable should look almost like a figure 8.
4. Now find a place where you can put a regular lock that will pull the cable tight enough that the switch cannot be actuated.

Like I said. Not pretty, but it might work.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I was picturing a typical toggle switch in my head with a 1/8" hole through it and it reminded me of a circuit breaker handle. Is that about the sizing? Would a circuit breaker Lock-out/Tag-out device work?

Here are a few:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3T986
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3TM51

[Curt Harms]

Rats! Why does this have to be so hard! I cannot find anything that will lock that hole! I can stick a "normal" size finish nail through it. It is less than 1/8" diameter. I think (if I can find one) a cable lock would be too flexible.

What is needed (IMHO) is something like those locks used to hold the trailer reciever in the body of the hitch. Only REAL thin. Ideas please!

Argh!!

Mike

I have a couple locks with hasps around 1/8" thick. Sold for suitcases.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Take them and a few hot dogs out there and mess up the hot dogs with the tools.
Then tell them to imagine it was their finger.
Kids (mine did, and my grand kids as well) respond best to honesty. And they need to learn to respect your tools.
I was able to teach my boys and the grand kids without the boot-in-the-butt my Dad used when needed to get my attention. :rolleyes:

Although, I still belive that a boot-in-the-butt could cure a lot of societies ills today.
My Grandkids learned early on, as my one of my Grand Daughter's put it to her little brother, "Watch out, Grandpa spanks!" :o
(But only when he must have their undivided attention.)

Any sub panel can have it's breakers shut off, and a small padlock put on the panel.
That will suffice until they learn to use a hacksaw. ;)

[Mike OMelia]

Well, as it turns out (for all you Jet tool owners), you can buy the lockout from www.wmhtoolgroup.com (http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com). Part number is 709012-A, costs $7.99. You have to create an account online with them (no big deal) and then the shopping cart appears.

Problem solved. Thanks!

Mike

[Thomas Williams]

Glad you got your problem solved. The padlock I have came with Craftsman 22124 saw and can be ordered from Sears on-line part number OR90375 and they are showing the price at $2.16.

[Sonny Edmonds]

I have a curiosity about the magnetic starters as well. I just acquired my first machine with one and I haven't analyzed the circuit in my G0490 book yet so see how they work.

My assumption is that there is a contactor that is latched up by feeding the coil input through one sets of the contacts. The on switch is in parallel with the contacts and the off switch is in series with the coil (either between the coil and 'ground' or the coil and contacts/on switch). The incoming power goes to one set of contacts and to the on switch. Both would then join to the coil, then to the off switch, and finally to ground. The power for the machine (motor) passes through another set of contacts on the same contactor. When the power is disrupted (off switch or power failure) the contactor de-energizes thereby opening the contacts and not allowing the machine to start again until the on switch is pressed.

For those that know actually know about the magnetic starters, how close am I?

The biggest reason the manufacturers are going to magnetic starter/contactors is for safety so the machine won't restart when the power returns.
Now one would think of a breaker tripping, then the user goes and resets the CB and <wa-zing> :eek:, the machine takes off as does what was on the machine.
But what actually did happen to a guy I know was he was using his table saw, had a momentary power outage (Power Co.) and was in total darkness in his basement shop.
He relaxed his grip ever so slightly and the power came back on. KA-POW!
Massive kick back by the TS and he got a "boxers break" of the knuckle of his little finger.
A magnetic starter/contactor WILL NOT restart the machine until the OPERATOR mindfully pushes the green button.
A switch, or mechanical contactor, will stay on through such power interuptions.
That is the biggest reason that you want a magnetic starter/contactor on your equipment.

The overload heaters allow for fine tuning to shut the machine off at say 13.5 amps, instead of 15. This sort of stuff comes into play in settings where the equipment might be used in a factory setting where it runs pretty much continously.

But the biggest factor is it takes a mind full action of "I am starting/ restarting this machine."

[Gary Lange]

Is there a way you can attach a cover to the start buttons and put a lock on that. It may be a simple and inexpensive way to get the security you need. Buy locks that all use the same key so you don't have to search for the right key.

[Mike OMelia]

Is there a way you can attach a cover to the start buttons and put a lock on that. It may be a simple and inexpensive way to get the security you need. Buy locks that all use the same key so you don't have to search for the right key.

Like I mentioned above, jet sells a locking pin with a combo lock that solves the problem for all of my large jet tools. I ordered them.

Mike