Ancient Threadless Spindle -> Threaded Spindle?

[Michael Nordberg]

Hello Friends. I'm seeking your advice.

I recently acquired a Craftsman 103.23180 Lathe (actually made by King-Seeley Corp). It's an honorable piece out of history:

1946 Manual (http://www.owwm.com/mfgindex/pubdetail.aspx?id=856)
Sears Parts Page (http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/getModel%21retrieve.pd?modelNumber=103.23180&pop=flush) (most items discontinued, not surpisingly)


I took it apart, cleaned it up, flushed, refilled the oil reservoirs, and put it back together, and it works great.

However, please take a look at the close-ups of the headstock spindle:

http://home.nordberg.net/lathe/

You'll notice that while the 3/4" spindle takes a #1 Morse Taper, it is not threaded! The unit came with a face place, but basically the face plate slides over the spindle and then uses a set-screw turned down into the flat portion of the outer spindle to hold fast.

The spindle is 8" long and 3/4" wide.

Here's the problem - I can't find any chuck attachments that can work with this. Nor can I find any type of an adapter, with the exception of this unit (http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=112830C&Category_Code=lathes-acc-tlstkadp)which is only for mock-up, and can't take the torque of real turning.

I really want to be able to use a chuck to do finer work, in particular starting a tradition of XMAS ornaments for the family.

Seems to me that there are many later models with 3/4" spindles, that have one (or both) ends threaded. I've found some Craftsman model numbers, but they're too old, so the part is not available.

I'm calling on you for help in finding an 8" (or longer) by 3/4" spindle that's threaded, that can be ordered either through the Sears Parts website, or through any other vendor. To search Sears, you must know the actual serial number of the unit, not the model number, which makes this tricky.

If you can provide this information, you will be the guy/gal who helps save Christmas, or at least helps a new Dad in creating a holiday tradition for his family and friends.

Many thanks in advance, and even if you can't help, I hope you enjoyed the pics.

-Nordberg

[Jeff Nicol]

Micheal, If you have a machine shop near you I bet you could get a different shaft made that would work. How is the spindle held in the headstock? Can it be taken out and put the pulley back on? If that is not an option, a good machine shop could turn you an adapter that would fit over the shaft that you already have on the machine and have the same set screws to tighten in on. Then the other end would have the threads you want, 3/4x16 or 1x8. My dad had that same lathe years ago and he sold it at a yard sale! I wish I had it now. If you can't find some one to make one I could ask my Dad, he has 2 metal lathes and he makes me things all the time. Let me know and I will ask him.

Jeff

[Richard Madison]

Michael,
Good pictures. Jeff's suggestion of an adapter might be the least expensive option if you cannot find a suitable spindle that will interchange. A machine shop would need a very accurate measurement of your spindle diameter in order to make a very close fitting adapter (for best alignment).

[Steve Schlumpf]

Michael - Welcome to the Creek! Hope someone here will be able to assist you!

My first lathe, which I still have, is a Craftsman mono-tube 113-23881. One of the first things I had to do when rebuilding it was replace the spindle. This was 4 1/2 years ago and it was still available through Sears. I checked the spindle I have and it would in no way fit your lathe. Mine is approx 6" long and uses 2 bearings and a clip ring to secure it to the headstock. The pulley end is free floating and not secured as yours is.

Have to agree with Jeff - your best bet is to have one made. Shouldn't take much and you would have your choice of threads!

Best of luck with this project! Let us know what you end up doing!

[Frank Drew]

I wonder if this spindle might be a version of a pin chuck (not the kind of pin chuck that's really a small drill chuck for tiny drill bits. The pin in this case is a small metal dowel that sits on the spindle flat and "locks" the faceplate on when the mounted faceplate turns just a bit. Some examples of pin chucks:

http://www.maxkrimmel.com/Alabaster/HowToPart1/imageAlatech1/PinChuck.jpg

[Michael Nordberg]

Thanks for the ample feedback!


Jeff - I'll call a few shops and ask for some quotes, but I suspect the cost is going to be in the range where it would make more sense to save up for a modern lathe, though I am enjoying this one.

The spindle is held in place by two parts: pulley and thrust bearing. The puller has two nose point set screws that pass through the pulley, and enter two divots machines into the pulley. The pulley assembly then presses against a thrust bearing (a bearing that takes pressure from the sides, instead of from the axle) which presses into the inside of the headstock casing.

Richard - Thanks.

Steve - Thanks.

Frank - I think it's very similar. The challenge is finding any chucks from the same time period that can mount on it. ;)

Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to offer help.

-Michael

[curtis rosche]

you could use a collet system that expands inside of the spindle

[Don Orr]

Michael,

Oneway Mfg. in Canada will supposedly make any kind of adapter for a lathe to fit their chucks. They are a family run outfit and do custom work for many turners. Find them by googling Oneway. They do very high quality work and produce very high quality products of which I have several.

The usual "No affiliation, just a happy customer" applies here.

Good luck. I imagine that a local shop can help you out just as well. I have an old Craftsman lathe that was my Father-in-laws and is over 70 years old and still works fine, but the spindle is threaded 3/4" x 16 tpi.

[Michael Nordberg]

I've only read good things about Oneway while learning about lathing, and honestly was eyeballing their products as items to use with this lathe. I've sent them a friendly email requesting any assistance or guidance they can offer. I'll share back the results when I hear from them.

-Michael

[Wilbur Pan]

This type of work is going to be easy peasy for a machine shop, except that you don't need them to make you a new spindle. Another way to go about doing this is to have them to make a custom insert for whatever chuck you want. The insert would have outside threads that match the inside of the chuck, and have a bore just like your faceplate, barely over 3/4", and a set screw thread bored through the side of the spindle to allow you to hold the insert onto the spindle.

This will be much easier than disassmbling your headstock to get the spindle out, and easier for the machine shop to do. Around here, it should be about $50 to get something like that made, which is about the price of a Oneway custom spindle insert.

[Michael Nordberg]

I'd like to avoid modifying the spindle, so something that could overlay the 3/4" spindle to provide a 1"x8tpi would be ideal. I considered making a reinforcement to the piece I listed in the original port, but the threads are aluminum, so that's a whole other welding problem right there. Thanks for the feedback!

[Bill O'Conner]

I don't believe that is the right shaft for your lathe I have the same lathe and I think some time ago the right one was broken or lost. If you look at the parts list you will see it has a treaded nut on the back side

Bill

[Andrew Derhammer]

I think it'd be better if the adapter was an interference fit and you had to heat up the adapter some to get it on and then have a set screw for assurance. That sucker ain't going to move.

[Michael Nordberg]

UPDATE:

Many thanks to Don Orr's suggestion. I contacted OneWay, and their reponse time was phenomenal. Here's a summary of the two replies:

Kevin Clay of Oneway wrote:

Vega Machinery makes a lathe with a ¾ plain spindle. We have adaptors for our chucks in stock that will fit their machine so they should fit yours. That will be your cheapest option. If you do decide in the future to get the spindle rethreaded you can replace the adaptor in our chuck and still have it fit the new spindle size.
Part number is 0240 for the Oneway or Talon chucks and 0340 for the Stronghold. For your lathe I would suggest the Talon. Call the order desk at 1-800-565-7288 and they will take care of you.The price appears to be a whole whopping $25. Their chucks look a bit pricey, but they also look like you get what you pay for, so they'll be getting my business.

Thanks again to everyone for their help!

-Nordberg

[Don Orr]

Glad to be of help Michael. I think you will be pleased with their Talon chuck if you decide to go that way. I have 2 and like them a lot. I also have a Stronghold which is bigger and heavier but a great chuck.

Sounds like you'll be slingin' chips in no time. Enjoy.

Oneway is just good people.

[Jim Koepke]

Mine is a little different. Taking the head stock apart is not terribly difficult. Mine had to come apart to change the belt.

I will try to take some close up pictures to post later today or most likely tonight.

See this thread:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=95603

Thanks for the link to the manual, I have been looking for this.

jim

[Michael Nordberg]

Yeah - dis-assembly was pretty straight forward. There was some damage to the spindle (scratches from the point-tip screws) that I filed down and buffed out with a Dremel. I make a habit of checking the oil reservoirs on either side of the headstock before working, as I figure it will take some time to saturate back to the right level.

Did you replace the thrust bearing? If so - do you still have the part number information?

Looks like you repainted your lathe? I found one page where a person did a full electro-strip of the metal and then repainted it. Talk about dedication. hehe

-Michael

[Jim Koepke]

My lathe is pretty much as I bought it. It has only been in my shop a few weeks. Mine is a model # 103.23020 if my memory is working.
I did buy a couple of live centers since it only had a dead center. Makes a lot of difference.

I am not sure if mine are thrust bearings or not, they looked like regular bearings. I didn't see any oil reservoirs, have to look again. The bearings look to have seals though. I do not know if the guy who owned it before did any replacements.

Here are some pictures of the head stock. One shows the cap over the outboard drive. The shaft is 3/4 inch with 16 threads per inch. The outboard drive is left hand thread. Grizzly has a universal mounting plate and one of the adapters is a 3/4X16 tpi left hand. The two jam nuts are 1-1/4 inch. Lucky for me I didn't give away all my old VW tools. The front wheel jam nuts from my old transportation are the same size. I always felt they would come in handy some day.

Hope this helps,

jim

[Michael Nordberg]

ah.. I was wondering what the two screw holes to the sides of the spindle on the outer side of the head stock were supposed to be for. Now I see - thanks.

Though similar, I think we're using different gear. The thrust bearing (I'm pretty sure you have one, as there's nothing touching the outer diameter of your bearing there) is on the inside of my headstock. The reservoirs are pretty important and I'm pretty sure you have them. Take off the shielding from the front of the headstock (single screw at the bottom of the sheet). Look on the inside with a flashlight, right on top of where the spindle exits both sides of the headstock. You should see two tiny, little, flip lids. If you don't, get an old toothbrush in there and clean away the grime - hehe. You'll need an old school oil can with a long, flexible neck to access them - especially the one toward the tailstock.

I'll try to get some pictures of mine tonight to show you what I mean.

-Michael

[Jim Koepke]

The thrust bearing (I'm pretty sure you have one, as there's nothing touching the outer diameter of your bearing there) is on the inside of my headstock.

I will look again today, but there actually is a ring between the jam nuts and the bearing on the outboard side and the collar on the spindle end pushes against the bearing on the other side.

jim

[Ed Costello]

Hello,

Try posting a wanted at this site

http://www.owwm.org/

also check out this guy, he may be able to help

http://theoldmachine.com/journal/craftsman-30-lathe/

Good luck
Coz

[Michael Nordberg]

[SNIP]

I am not sure if mine are thrust bearings or not, they looked like regular bearings. I didn't see any oil reservoirs, have to look again.
[SNIP]

Hope this helps,

jim

Jim,

Sorry for the delay. Here is the picture showing the caps to the oil reservoirs on the inside of the headstock:

http://home.nordberg.net/lathe/index.html#oil

This is a view straight from the back. You don't need to remove the front plate to do this. The one on the left is hard to see, but you can't miss the one on the right. Hope this helps.

After that is a quick pic of the pegboard and magnetic strips I setup this morning to hold the lathe chisels and free hand tools. Still have some clean-up to do. hehe

-Michael

[Jeff Nicol]

Here is what you should buy and then have the 5/8" bored out to fit your lathe! The price is right!

http://www.amazon.com/PSI-Woodworking-L5818-Headstock-Shopsmith/dp/B000KIEC88/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1226865065&sr=1-32

Jeff

[Michael Nordberg]

The inside of that adapter is threaded, I believe. While I could have the exterior of the spindle threaded, I'd rather not if I can avoid it. I think the adapter from OneWay will be good enough for now, and also, if and when I get a better lathe, I just have to drop $25 for a new adapter.

-Michael

[Jeff Nicol]

The adapter is not threaded on the inside for the shopsmith shaft. The shopsmith has a 5/8" shaft that all adapters for other attachments go on to. So it would just need to be bored out to 3/4". I asked my Dad and he could make one with no problem. He just needs to know how deep to make the 3/4" hole so it will not bottom out before it seats against the headstock. If the next lathe you buy has a 1" x 8tpi then you would not need another adapter and the chuck would be the correct size. I wish you lived in town as then I could fix you up real cheap and fast! I am the ultimate gadget guy and have tons of stuff and tools to get things done. And with my Dad having 3 metal lathes and a mill I am always creating something!

Good luck!

Jeff

[Michael Nordberg]

Jim,

I have some more info about the oil reservoir for you. Please take a look at http://home.nordberg.net/lathe/index2.html . Toward the bottom of the page, you'll see what the actual inside of the reservoir looks like. :)

-Michael