Newbie on P Cable Dovetail Jig...help-denver

[travis howe]

Okay, so I finally got the setup for the pc jig w/ the miniture dovetail kit. After reading the instructions several times, I gather that in half-blind joints you cut both joints at the same time? Horizontal and vertical at the same time and then through dt's both cuts being seperate vertical cuts. So I'm hoping my problem is with thin stock, it says 1/4 or 1/2 inch stock as the norm for the miniture dt's and I've cut down some 1/4 red oak and having problems w/ tearout, even w/ a variable speed router (dewalt).

I hear people saying its so easy, I'm generally pretty savvy w/ new stuff but this is frustrating. I was hoping to build a nice box to package stuff in for Christmas for my 94 year old Grandma but it's not looking so promising.

Anyone in the North Denver area that could help or others w/ suggestions?

Thanks!

Travis

[Jim Becker]

Tear out when routing dovetails can be minimized by insuring you take a very light climb cut across the workpiece to score the line before cutting the dovetails and by insuring you have backer material in place when appropriate to protect the back side.

[Karl Brogger]

Jeez, typed out a whole thing then realized where your problem is probably at.

I cut all of my drawer stock big by 1/2" in width. Then cut a 1/4" off of both sides to get rid of the tear out after they've been machined. If I want a 3.875" drawer, I rip the parts at 4.375"

Setting up a PC dovetail jig is a PIA, the only thing that is worse is one of the machines that the entire side/front at once. It took a long time, and alot of drawers, (probably over 100), before I finally got a system, and setup that I'm happy with. There is a few improvements that could be made to that jig too. I'd like the

For figuring the widths, I measure the template on the jig, the distance of the "tounges" on center is what I use for the rough sizes. The bottoms rest in the center of bottom pin/tail, so to set the stop you just have to add what you are going to cut off, plus the distance from the would be bottom of the drawer. The way I'm setup when a drawer side is in the jig, the edge that is out in the open is centered on one of the tounges.

I also a copy of the spreadsheat I use for making cutlists. It won't work for you using 1/4 material, but it'll show you the sizes I use. I tried cut+paste, but it didn't come out in the post correctly, and I'm lazy. Maybe I should start a new thread with that, and the other spreadsheats I use.

[travis howe]

So... I have to ask, if a PC is a pain to set up... what do you all use / like to use?

I'm hoping it'll be one of those... ohhhh yeah, I got it moments soon because I'm getting a bit frustrated w/ it.

r/t

[frank shic]

travis, it used to annoy me every time i asked a question about using a dovetail jig, some smart aleck would post a picture of a mallet and chisel. you know what? they were right! after i watched the frank klausz dvd several times and practice a couple of times, i got the hang of it. you can too if you're willing to invest a little bit of time. handcutting dovetails is an enormously gratifying experience and doesn't require that many tools: a set of marples chisels and a gentleman's saw from rockler were enough to get me started.

[Karl Brogger]

So... I have to ask, if a PC is a pain to set up... what do you all use / like to use?

I'm hoping it'll be one of those... ohhhh yeah, I got it moments soon because I'm getting a bit frustrated w/ it.

r/t

I use the Porter Cable jig. Its just a pain to get setup is all. I went into it green, and with no clue how things should work is all.

[travis howe]

Thanks...

I havn't seen Frank's DVD yet. I would presume any manual process would take a lot more time that a jig? I'm sure I'll get it...one of these days!

[Bill Huber]

I have and use the PC jig, the first night I worked with it I had problems, then I just left it and came back the next night and things went much better, I think I was just trying to hard and took in to much info.

I think once you understand what does what then it is a lot easier to use and setup.

As Jim stated, try a real light climb cut to start.

The PC works very well and will make a very nice dovetail.
Here are my test joints.


Through Dovetail.
http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/image/82430911

Half Blind Dovetail.
http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/image/82465460[/URL]

Box joints
[URL]http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/image/82430912 (http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/image/82430911)

[Vince Shriver]

Bill,

Nice joints, but you are showing two through-dovetails and not a half blind one.

[Don Dorn]

I have the PC 4212 and it's a nice jig, but using Franks method, I've gotten to where I can make a drawer from intial cuts on the RAS in about 1/2 hour by handcutting. It's much more quiet and as mentioned before, very gratifying. I also really like having perfectly fitting drawers, including the bottoms without using a tape measure.

That said, I won't get rid of my jig - if I'm doing several drawers or doing through dovetails on 3/4" material, especially oak, purple heart, etc, I reach for the jig for sure. My handcutting is limited to 1/2" material in Poplar, Pine, Walnut, Mahogany, etc. I'm not a purist - if you want the jig, buy it and learn to use it well.

[Bill Huber]

Bill,

Nice joints, but you are showing two through-dovetails and not a half blind one.

I fixed that.... I pasted in the link for the same image 2 times.

Thanks.....

[Loren Hedahl]

Thanks...

I havn't seen Frank's DVD yet. I would presume any manual process would take a lot more time that a jig? I'm sure I'll get it...one of these days!


You need to see Frank's DVD. He's amazingly fast. He'd have the first drawer done before I even got my Leigh D4 out and clamped to the bench. By the time I had the D4 set up and adjusted, he'd be done!

[frank shic]

travis, once you have the dovetail jig set up correctly, there's no competition: the jig is faster than hand cutting them especially with half blind dovetails. on a PC omnijig, you could cut all four pieces in one shot, reclamp and then cut all the others in the second run. this is most useful if you're going to be cranking out a bunch of them for a kitchen. the handcutting method is great when you don't have a lot of through dovetail drawers to cut or just don't want to be annoyed by that high pitch router whine!

[travis howe]

I figured it out!!! Too funny, I had the ah-ha come to me late one night and of course it worked! I still have some tweaking to do but I got it...finally! Thanks for all the info!

[Jim Becker]

Just remember that the most critical measurement for doing half-blind dovetails on a jig is the bit depth. Even a deviation the size of a proverbial "small hair" can make a difference in the fit. Always make sure you have extra stock that is identical to what you are using to construct the project for fitting tests...you want the identical material because measurements can vary over time, both from just plain measuring errors and from seasonal shrinkage/expansion.

[travis howe]

Thanks folks...

I believe I know the answer to this is yes but I'm going to ask and hopefully save some additional frustration.

So, my first half-blind success was in using the miniture set w/ the pc setup. Would it be a correct statement in saying that now that I have a good fit or close to what I would like to see, will that same bit depth be used successfully for all my future cuts on any "approved thickness"?

Thanks, it's getting more and more fun as I figure these things out, can't wait to put the skills to use on the desk I have planned for my wife's office.

Travis

[will sands]

If you are using a PC 4210 or 4212 the joint should fit the same with various board thicknesses. The tail height is a constant so if you change thickness the appearance and overall drawer length will change. If you are using the new Omnijig you can change the tail height by changing the guide bushing. The answer to your question is the fit of half blind dovetails is determined by the depth of cut and not by board thickness.

Regards,
Bill

[Alex Berkovsky]

Travis,
Watch this Woodsmith podcast (http://www.woodworkingonline.com/2007/04/30/podcast-20-machine-cut-dovetails/) on machine-cut dovetails. They are using PC 4212 DT jig to cut half-blind dovetails.

[travis howe]

Great link!

Does anyone happen to have a cheatsheet for the standard pc dovetail jig, bit depth for the miniture and standard half-blind and blind dovetails?

At least something to get started w/ w/out waisting a lot of cuts / wood.

Thanks,

Travis

[Karl Brogger]

The depth of the bit, depends on the bit. I've used two different 1/2", (I think) 7* bits, and had to set the depth differently for each one.

[frank shic]

travis, there's no way to avoid wasting some wood when setting up these jigs. sometimes you get lucky with only 2-3 test cuts other times, you'll be whittling that 2 foot board down to 6" lol.

[Loren Hedahl]

Once you get a 'perfect' joint, what do you use to measure the bit protrusion from the base of the router?


Reason I ask is because I keep a 'perfect' sample joint labeled for each bit. But even then I have do adjust my depth slightly most times.

A brain storm just occurred that perhaps a Harbor Freight dial indicator mounted in the curve of a "U" might make an accurate, inexpensive set-up fixture. For the cost of such a dial indicator, I'd just epoxy it in place permanently.

Probably everyone else is already doing this and I've just not caught on!

Loren

[Karl Brogger]

If I'm changing bits, but to the same model of bit, I just mark the height on a scrap, and eyeball it. You still want to do a test piece though.